English Channel migrant crossing crisis #2

[monga]

It’s almost like no one here seems to be arguing against checks being made. Just that the asylum system should be more efficient than it is now?

Efficiency doesn’t mean that we don’t make sense and accept absolutely everyone

Unless I’m blind it’s seems everyone that’s landing here is being accepted,placed in community settings until their claims are delt with, allowed to roam freely and unhindered and you don’t think people have a right to be concerned??

 

[monga]

Try reading what I wrote again and this time stop to think about what the words actually mean rather than just give a knee-jerk response based on what you think or want me to have said. I've highighted the key words in your post and mine. Hopefully that will help.

As usual you've attached a link to something that is demonstrably untrue (in this case the Michelle Donelan interview) as evidence for something that you believe without understanding that it makes you look as silly as she does. I think the fundamental problem is that while you are heavily exercised by the question of asylum seekers being housed in hotels and some vague and largely undefined notion of 'economic freeloaders', you have a tenuous (at best) understanding of the wider issues of asylum and immigration.

While you profess to be happy to support the 'genuine' asylum seekers, you appear to have a distorted and again largely undefined view about who they are and by your own admission no idea how to do that. You are therefore inclined to support the kind of 'scorched earth' policies favoured by this government that will harm all asylum seekers ('genuine' or otherwise). As I observed previously it is an example of a typical Tory attitude that they are happy for everyone in a group to suffer (as long as they themselves are not in the group) if it means that the minority of 'fraudulent' or 'undeserving' people in that group don't 'get away with something'.

I don’t support economic free loaders and something has to change I’ve never said people in genuine need don’t deserve it ,I’m waiting to see what solution you come up with so the government can distinguish those in genuine need, but again you write a pointless essay just going over the same thing time and time again, I’ve already said we know the literal meaning of things it’s the solution we need.
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https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-su...push-boundaries-of-international-law-12827674'Our small boats plan will push boundaries of international law', admit senior Tories

 

[Merpedy]

You’ve put that spin on it yourself.

Just connected what you were saying to the story. Though I did forget that you have a tendency to post unrelated stories

 

[monga]

Forever going back to the idea that asylum seekers are all little economic migrants who are criminals

I don’t think an effective asylum system would satisfy you in general. There’s also some irony when the “asylum system” being proposed by the government has the potential to make all those issues far worse

FGS are you saying traffickers are genuine?? They don’t exist?? They are not criminals ? They don’t bring people into the country to run their drug rackets or black market economy I’ve shared lots of articles on traffickers a few even state people were running their cannabis farms for them, they’re taking people including children from hotels to form all kinds of gangs.

 

[monga]

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I heard Scotland wasn't housing them in hotels and idk if that applies to other accom as well so if no is acceptable there why is it not in the rest of the UK? (rhetorical)
Evicting military families to replace them with illegals is so wrong.

Ireland are using tents now that direct provision is full. I don’t think France use hotels? Maybe it’s down to each country.

 

[Polythene Pam]

Maybe it’s the lawyers the gov accused of making a killing in fees
Seems there’s lots of different people out to exploit so not a bad thing checks are being made.

[Withdrawn] Bogus Immigration Lawyer Jailed For Fraud

Ms. Harvinder Kaur Thethi of Solihull, West Midlands, found guilty of six counts of fraud by false representation.

www.gov.uk

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I can’t believe anyone ,legal eagle or not would want dangerous criminals kept in the country when their claims for asylum have been rejected elsewhere.

The article you have linked is not actually about a lawyer. It's about a fraudster who purported to be a barrister, solicitor and a Home Office official in order to steal money from vulnerable people.

I would like to have an immigration and asylum system that actually works. I am increasingly concerned about living in a country where the government acts as it wishes with complete disregard for constitutional convention, UK law, international law and human rights treaties that we once helped establish.

 

[Merpedy]

Interestingly one of the MPs today asked whether the Government was simply setting the stage to start the anger about the ECHR and withdrawing from it so they could capitalise on it for the election

 

[Blueblue123]

Oh okay. Let me play Monga's irrelevant article game.

Ellie Williams jailed for 8.5 years after vicious lies tore lives apart

Eleanor Williams, 22, claimed she had been the victim of an Asian grooming gang, sparking national support

www.google.com

This is what happens when you create a narrative that foreigners are the only ones who commit sexual offences.

 

[monga]

I find this funny because there are plenty of British people abusing systems too but the big difference between them and “economic free loaders” is that they are privileged to have been born in Britain

If this asylum thing ever gets fixed maybe that’s the next group the Tories will blame all their failures on?

So the solution is to keep adding to them
I’m beginning to think you live in a land of lollipop trees and candy rivers with cotton candy clouds and rainbows always in view where people travel on unicorns

 

[monga]

The attitudes displayed by the men in these interviews are indefensible.

Albanian prisoners paid by UK government to return home

The BBC hears from offenders offered £1,500 each to end their UK sentences early and be deported.

www.bbc.co.uk

All criminals. Paid to leave early. But have such contempt for the immigration they are already planning a return. And these are “some of the most vulnerable people in our society” who are deserving of support and sympathy?

Fuck. Right. Off.

Just another incentive.
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The farmers still standing their ground…Gov trying to gaslight people ,claiming these guys are genuine refugees when they don’t even know who the fuck the majority of them are.

 

[Blueblue123]

Are we supposed to believe that people coming to the UK by boat are also coincidentally, overwhelmingly thrillseeking wildwater enthusiasts?

If there was a safe option that didn't require dangerously crossing the channel on a small boat then people would do that.

 

[Merpedy]

If it was down to you many millions would be allowed to come here just because you believe it is 'the right thing to do'.

I think if you read I have argued that the asylum system should be functional and safe passage should be granted i.e by processing claims from safe countries

Everything else is broken because the government does nothing about it. Removing asylum seekers, refugees, immigrants and the like won’t change that public services are underfunded

It speaks volumes that instead of blaming the cause of the problem we are encouraged to pass the blame to other people

 

[BigMavis]

It's fairly simple to me, countrys in a mess blame the foreigners. Government isn't even attempting to hide it anymore. That's not to say there isn't big problems.

 

[monga]

I'm not sure why you're waiting for me to come up with a solution when I posted my suggestions some weeks ago (around the same time that you said you didn't have any ideas). You obviously didn't read or understand it then so what would be the point of me writing it again?

And based on the evidence of your posts I don't think you do know 'the literal meaning of things'. And as for going over the same thing time and time again ... Have you ever thought that if you just stopped posting links on the same issue without making any substantive points of your own you wouldn't keep getting the same responses?

You keep typing out the same Guardian articles, I just save myself time by posting the actual article instead of copying someone else’s I do know the difference in asylum seekers, migrants, and especially freeloaders..thank you very much

 

[CheshireTea]

Just want to check if we’re still sticking up for them or…?

 

[monga]

I agree with the vast majority of what you say. I don't think we're going to fully agree on the bit in bold but that's okay.

This is what you get when you pander to people uninformed people with "concerns" ..


Happy to be supported by fascists because they had never heard of them and don't even know what a fascist is ....


And the fascists can't wait to exploit their ignorance and lack of curiosity ...

So you’re saying the views of two thick women are representative of those with concerns I don’t think you give people enough credit.
It actually says more about you than it does them.

 

[monga]

I’m still waiting on those coming out in support of economic freeloaders, they seem to be busy elsewhere…
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How much did she pay for the trout pout now we’re being left to support her while she waits for her asylum claim to be processed, why didn’t she keep that cash for rent??? It’s beyond a joke ,yet people will defend her right for asylum claiming she’s being persecuted

 

[monga]

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Gang warfare going on while families are being housed there and they expect communities to put up with this shite and keep their mouths closed for fear of stoking tensions.Where did they move them to is the question.

Six men arrested following Killarney hotel stabbings

Gardaí investigating last night's multiple stabbing at a hotel being used as a temporary direct provision centre in Killarney Co Kerry are now questioning six men.

www.rte.ie

 

[BigMavis]

Maybe the legislation will put people off?
Is Rwanda as good as the UK or another safe country, perhaps if they're desperate enough to leave their home country it wouldn't matter what safe country they're in.

 

[BigMavis]

Not sure I agree with that. I mean you and I have listened to the messages propagated by parliament and media but I don't think either of us have bought into it in the way that some clearly have. I don't think I have to make allowances for people who have because it's not difficult to see through it. Of course for some people it's easier than thinking for themselves and for others it merely echoes what they are already thinking or other problems that they have.

I don't have a problem with people that have concerns about asylum seekers (although I have 'concerns' about people who use 'concerns' as a benign mask for their real agenda.

I have 'concerns' about asylum seekers too. Amongst other things, I have concerns about why we need to house so many asylum seekers in hotels or anywhere else come to that. I have concerns about why it costs so much. I have concerns about why there are almost no return agreements in place. But what I don't do is look to blame the individual asylum seekers for those concerns, as I described it, blaming the match instead of the arsonist.

I share your concerns. But I also know that people believe their government and the media and I think its a bit much to say they should see through it especially when there are threads of truth running through the messages. It's crazy and its dangerous and I don't like where its heading but its all by design. In an ideal world nobody would be housed in hotels they'd be put in a family environment and allowed to flourish but that's not whats happening and its causing a mess for people who live in those areas, they're afraid and ignoring them or telling them they lack compassion is poor form.