English Channel migrant crossing crisis #2

[monga]

Who said they don’t? Unless you’re saying they’re economic freeloaders? …I always thought it was women and children first but it seems young defenceless children are seen as less deserving than young fit men .

 

[monga]

Yes they absolutely do. It's the natural reaction of some that when life is difficult they look for a scapegoat to blame. In the UK in the past it was immigrants generally, people on benefits and then EU citizens (Polish plumbers etc). In recent years it's been asylum seekers. In Germany and France in the early part of the 20th century it was 'The Jews'.
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'Can't' and 'won't' are not the same thing.

That’s only if you’re one of those unlucky enough to believe government spin, they’ve always demonised the working class, it stil doesn’t make it wrong to not want undocumented young men into the country, didn’t ISIS threaten to send their people in the form of refugees? The people murdered by religious fanatics, men beheaded in their own homes because they were gay, women raped and murdered because they’re women yeah let’s open the gates and welcome every weirdo from around the globe, after all everyone deserves a chance…
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Nearly every hotel in my local town has been turned into a place for them, it’s all men. A few have been arrested for SA on local school girls as one of the hotels is opposite a school. Some were seen walking the streets with baseball bats. They are allowing this into our local towns and cities but wont help us with basic cost of living crisis issues! But here France, here’s £500 mill!!!!!

How will the town cope with the lost revenue from tourism? Hoteliers will be fine they’ll have SERCO funds it’s the other businesses will suffer ,will the government step in an help those people…I’d doubt it.

 

[monga]

These are the people that should be getting hotel accommodation not economic freeloaders.

 

[EnjoyingTheShow]

The UK cant house the people already in this country without trying to house thousands of immigrants. Its about time this country started to put their own people first instead of everybody else. People cant heat their homes, feed their families, put nappies on the babies and he's giving £500 mill to France!

Not forgetting the billions laundered in sent to his bum buddy in Ukraine!

 

[Lollyy]

We can have immigration but it needs to be means tested and filtered. Our country is in such a sorry state of affairs and I’m from a family who emigrated over to the UK after the war. Sick of these young violent uneducated men coming over, they come over from war torn counties with awful views and we expect them to get 9-5s in an office?
just my opinion, please don’t all come for me as I understand how sensitive these topics are

 

[monga]

I saw a Ukrainian dentist interviewed he had a very successful practice in his home country (for years ) he can’t practice here because it’s a different set of qualifications needed .

 

[Miscanthus]

Families being forced to move with no alternative accommodation being offered .

Families forced to move as asylum seekers look set to replace them

EXCLUSIVE: A mother living at an MOD facility said families on the former RAF base had been told to leave, as fencing is erected 100m away 'for asylum seekers'.

www.express.co.uk

An elderly friend has had her holiday cancelled. She was going on a 44 strong group break to Hereford in June but the hotel has been commandeered for asylum seekers. The chances of them finding another hotel for that many people are negligible. These are people in their 80s who have worked and paid taxes all their lives.

 

[IngressUK]

It sounds like the main difference between the proposed policy and what we have now is people will be held as some sort of criminal.

How is it materially different to them being rounded up and put in hotels? Except they'll have fewer freedoms.

And we talk about these agreements with other countries as if they don't take in immigrants at all. Not Rwanda specifically maybe, but people move all over the place. For example, I can only imagine how many middle eastern refugees go to other middle eastern countries or Asian countries that border Europe, north Africa, even parts of east and west Africa.

Has anyone heard about the Tunisian president turning away black refugees? Similar to how European countries are hostile towards migrants but he's explicitly being racist.

There are refugees all over, moving to all over. But the way the rhetoric goes, you'd think the UK is taking the bulk of them and the rest of the world has all the room to spare.

I just don't see how the UK will secure enough agreements to take on all the people who come here across the channel with all the global crises and displaced people.

The UK already has a higher share of regular legal migrants than other EU countries.

So whilst the numbers of Asylum Seekers may not be as high as you like, the numbers we take in other areas is higher than average.

Just how many more people do you expect the UK to house and feed just to make you and a few others happy?

The current situation is unsustainable in the long term and unfair to those seeking legal migration into the UK and to the Indigenous population already here - many of whom are struggling to heat their homes and put food on the table at present.

But of course you've made it pretty clear time after time you don't care about that. Just so long as tens of thousands of undocumented migrants can enter the country via illegal methods each year.

If the situation isn't brought under control, then you can likely see more Liverpool style protests occur in the future. The majority of people's patience at dealing with the situation will start to wear very thin and overall goodwill towards the 'desperate souls' starts to run out.

No one wants that.

As a final note. I can tell you here and now that not all Labour supporters are in favour of the current situation continuing. I know a handful whom have stronger views on the subject than I do. I also suspect many in the red wall areas are not supportive of letting things continue.

 

[monga]

Not sure what they were expecting when there’s a housing shortage everywhere.

Afghan refugees told by Home Office they will have to find their own accommodation

A Home Office letter - seen by Sky News - has been sent out, informing the majority of the 8,000 people evacuated after the fall of Kabul that they will need to find their own accommodation.

news.sky.com

 

[IngressUK]

I think if you read I have argued that the asylum system should be functional and safe passage should be granted i.e by processing claims from safe countries

Everything else is broken because the government does nothing about it. Removing asylum seekers, refugees, immigrants and the like won’t change that public services are underfunded

It speaks volumes that instead of blaming the cause of the problem we are encouraged to pass the blame to other people

I'm not saying the Government has been wonderful on this issue.

However as we've seen, attempts to remove people from the country is met by resistance from some.

What about the Jamaican national who was due to be deported but stopped by the same bunch of blinkered do-gooders from being so. Then went on to murder someone.

Various attempts at removing people have been thwarted by the same group of people. Those people that interfere with the removal process should be arrested and charged for doing so. Had he of been removed when he was due to, that murder could have been prevented.

There is a good reason why many people should be removed. Those individuals that interfere should not be allowed to frustrate that process just because they don't happen to agree with it.

 

[NeverEnough]

It's interesting that you make these claims without knowing which causes I support or donate to.

Sorry, my level of support doesn't meet your standards oh great one. I didn't realise there was one approved way of showing support.

But anyway, this is the typical argument made against anyone who says anything in favour of refugees. Would you let them live in your house? blah blah blah.

I'm not a NIMBY like some in this thread and don't believe refugees are people who should be pushed around and turned into someone else's problem.

The causes you support or donate to, whilst I’m sure they are wonderful, have very little to do with setting up a community group to home a desperate refugee family. And I think the answer to your very stereotypical question about whether or not you would have one in your home has been conclusively shown to be in your case “No I won’t”.

Is that not the very essence of turning it into someone else‘s problem? NIMFRO? (Not in my front room).

 

[BigMavis]

Are people ignoring why many want to come to the UK? I don't like the legislation but why pretend people are coming here for safety. Not all of them are. Some are. I think that's the problem.

 

[CheshireTea]

protests are on the rise, was on the news last night the temp is rising in Cannock. What people on this thread don’t seem to acknowledge is that behind their ‘facts’ and ‘figures’ they keep spouting, REAL people in REAL communities are SICK to the back teeth of it - 3 hotels in Cannock taken up with them (approx 400) in when the population is on £30k. Residents are deeply concerned that many if not all of these people have entered without documents and are ALLOWED TO ROAM FREELY without no checks (lingering around schools, following women… because were secondary in their culture right?!). Anyway you can keep trying to be argumentative all you like on this thread, reality is you’re only 2-3 people and if you wake up you’ll realise this is only bringing communities together, the protests will only get bigger and more frequent. I don’t know where you’re from but there is definitely an unspoken sticking together rule in the North, when enough is enough… you will know about it.

Out of interest. Moth, Merpedy and Blueblue123 - where do you live? Do you work? Do you have a family? Did you claim asylum yourself? Because I just can’t get my head around why you are so ‘fight to the death’ defending them. As I have said many times before, and most people like me, we do not oppose the idea of legal asylum BUT we need to sort out own shit out first and be realistic that we cannot harbour the world so some sort of cap will be required as it puts too much strain on the tax payer… why can you not accept that very fair compromise? Why should we let the world in? Why should it just be the U.K.? Why can’t you think sometimes if they travel through numerous safe countries, they should stay and make a life there… I know if I was petrified fleeing for my life, I would?! Begs the question if they are fleeing for their life, fleeing for your life shouldn’t even be a question about being picky about the country you’d just be so relieved you were out of the hellhole you came from… so are they not fleeing for their life? Are they taking the piss out of us and our good nature?

 

[Polythene Pam]

Clearly in that case it’s very evident he’s not 15 , the kids were able to find his SM you’d wonder why a lawyer/ official couldn’t when they would have more backround on him than a class full of kids.

It's almost like these scary stories help the Home Office hype up hysteria so that people are practically begging to have our human rights stripped away... oh, wait....
I'll put my tinfoil hat away
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Having read the article briefly the problem there is that he was assessed to be a minor when he arrived. Nothing to do with lawyers claiming he was a mis-aged minor

I think Monga is good at googling catchy headlines but not so much reading the articles

 

[monga]

They come to this small densely populated country and there just isn’t an abundance of big houses with big gardens with swings and trampolines ready for them. It’s not inhumane depriving them of this, it’s just pure fantasy.
I used to work in housing needs up till 2015 and my mentor who had worked in that department for over two decades said he’d never known it to be so bad.
Housing stock is low, in part due to Thatcher’s right to buy scheme in the 80’s, designed to keep workers working and not striking. All that money went to central government and not back into local authorities budget to build more homes.
The bedroom tax was introduced in 2013 to address the shortage of family homes. The scheme was called inhumane, but desperate times lead to desperate measures.
This is a matter of economics, and inefficiency. If employers paid proper wages, we would have less people needing subsidised living, and thusly more homes available to house the genuinely needy including the many homeless people we have here as well as people seeking refuge.

Try telling that to the out of touch people on this thread that think we should keep taking people with no housing or resources to help them.

 

[monga]

That would make sense if instead of "economic freeloaders, criminals" you had typed "economic freeloaders criminals" but you didn't.



Perhaps what you meant to say was that of the three words and one punctuation mark you intended, you 'forgot' one word and the punctuation mark and accidentally typed the other two words in the wrong order. Easily done, I guess.

When I publicly embarrass myself I tend to keep a low profile for a while or try to move swiftly on plus if I have insulted someone in the process e.g. by saying something like ...



I would probably be inclined to apologise. I'm too old to expect miracles though.

No I’d doubt you would apologise for trying to insinuate I’m some sort of right wing racist, just like you were handed your arse for trying to accuse me of being a CT when in fact the posts were someone else’s …Remember that? I certainly do

 

[monga]

I was in ROI last September and didn't notice any migrants. Has the influx happened quite recently?

This time last year there was 8500 now there’s 85,000 that’s only in ROI so a big jump.
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UK Gov planning to cram them into private housing to clear hotels.

Asylum seekers in England and Wales to lose basic protections in move to cut hotel use

Exclusive: ministers plan to exempt asylum seekers’ landlords from rules including minimum room sizes

www.theguardian.com

 

[NeverEnough]

So, if this legislation is so inhumane, illegal and will result in cruel long term imprisonment, shouldn’t the people who care so passionately about the welfare of asylum seekers be urgently urging them not to come to the UK where they will have their human rights stripped and be placed in danger, and perhaps as an alternative take advantage of the protections afforded to them where they currently are? Invariably France.

Seems awfully cruel and lacking in compassion to encourage arrivals when you know they will suffer so. Borderline psychopathic even.

 

[Moth]

I love the idea that all the human rights that the UK felt were essential after WW2 are no longer important because "things have moved on".

I also have to roll my eyes at the repetitive suggestion that an immigration system that requires the vast majority of immigrants to apply for and be granted a visa or for a relatively small number of refugees to prove that they qualify for protection equates to an 'uncontrolled', 'open door policy'.

Once the anti-immigrant voters got Brexit to stop freedom of movement within Europe I guess it was inevitable that that they would move on to the next group. Now it's asylum seekers and when their government has dealt with that 'crisis', no doubt they'll move on to visa immigrants. They won't be happy while 'bloody foreigners' are still 'coming over here'. They believe all immigration is simply done as a favour to the immigrant at our expense and that the UK does not really need or want them here. You'll never win an argument against that opinion.

 

[NeverEnough]

One sec, let me call all the refugees in my phone book.

And yes, we're the psychopathic ones for wanting them to be given refuge, not those who want to see them pushed back and forth between countries because no one will take them in or treat them with sympathy. Not those calling them all criminals and arranging protests. Not those (admittedly few) who practically orgasm when they hear a boat has sunk.

You are wilfully misunderstanding the point. This legislation is coming. The government will not change their mind. You may well “want“ them to be given refuge, but the reality is they won’t be. And if you care about them as much as you claim you do the second this legislation passes into law you would want them to avoid the UK like the plague and seek a country with a more liberal asylum policy. But then again I suppose it won’t actually be you who may well spend years on a disused airbase in Essex. But I guess they will be glad of your moral support.

Of course, as previously posted, and to further answer your question as to what legal avenues are available.

Community sponsorship scheme launched for refugees in the UK

Home Secretary and Archbishop of Canterbury launch new scheme to encourage community groups to sponsor a refugee family.

www.gov.uk

It‘s quick and easy to set up a community account.

Lloyds Bank - Internet Banking - Error

www.lloydsbank.com

Other banks are available. So get off your arse and start knocking on doors to seek volunteers to sponsor these poor unfortunates. After all to quote John Stuart Mill “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” And you’re the good guy in this right? Hell the concerned posters on this thread could all band together to do something practical right now if they wanted to, the links are there.

You won’t of course because excuse making hypocrisy is still a thing, but well why not? I believe only 114 concerned groups took advantage of this last year. Disappointing. But you, Blueblade123, could be doing something to help a poor desperate refugee family RIGHT NOW. Be part of the answer, do better.