COVID-19 vaccine #19 & general vaccine conversation

[Poddular]

Of course - this is why I said no one can make an informed choice if surrounded by misinformation.

Misinformation certainly goes both ways, but as someone working in this field, there is infinitely more misinformation that aims to discourage vaccination & minimise the impacts of COVID, than the other way around.

I don't want a back and forth, everyone has an opinion.
But this is totally wrong about more misinformation to discourage imo, as I don't do social media, no-one I know cares what people say on twitter, fb,etc it's a irrelevant to many.
However the media and governments of nearly every country gave blanket wall to wall proven misinformation, reported as FACTS. It was unavoidable, rammed down our throats and in some cases used as blackmail for want of a better word.
Social media is not even a thought in many peoples minds, however escaping mainstream media and government / doctors/workplace pro vaccine misinformation was harder /impossible to do.
Anyway that's me done x
P.s my fathers had 4 up to now.
And yes p.p.s. I've been unable to visit friends and family due to non vaccination , as have many others. Some of these people will never meet again.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

Of course - this is why I said no one can make an informed choice if surrounded by misinformation.

Misinformation certainly goes both ways, but as someone working in this field, there is infinitely more misinformation that aims to discourage vaccination & minimise the impacts of COVID, than the other way around.

Choosing to not be vaccinated against coronavirus in the UK will not adversely affect you, boosters are only likely to be offered to certain demographics. This is why I'm suprised disinformation groups are still working hard to sow fear regarding this.

Well it does adversely effect me. I have chosen not to have any of the covid vaccines and as a result because I am British and live in the U.K. I am unable to travel to the Netherlands or the USA to name just a few.

 

[Freedomofspeech89]

I'll just pop this here for all of us "misinformed" people. Have a good Sunday peeps

 

[grampositive]

Well it does adversely effect me. I have chosen not to have any of the covid vaccines and as a result because I am British and live in the U.K. I am unable to travel to the Netherlands or the USA to name just a few.

I said specifically domestically - we cannot control what policies other countries choose to have in place, and vaccine requirements for travel are not new.

I really feel for people who are not comfortable getting vaccinated or being tested for COVID which restricts their options for travel, but entering another country isn't an automatic right. If they have policies in place designed to reduce risk to public health of their citizens, that's their choice too.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

I said specifically domestically - we cannot control what policies other countries choose to have in place, and vaccine requirements for travel are not new.

I really feel for people who are not comfortable getting vaccinated or being tested for COVID which restricts their options for travel, but entering another country isn't an automatic right. If they have policies in place designed to reduce risk to public health of their citizens, that's their choice too.

Where did you say domestically I must have missed that?! You said it wasn’t affecting people in the U.K. - I showed an example of how it does. Yes it is up to other countries what they do - that doesn’t take away that they’re doing it though does it?! Also the countries I mentioned also don’t accept tests - it’s vaccines only.

It did affect people domestically within the U.K. during the winter months of 21’ being forbidden from attending concerts, restaurants and bars. It has changed now which is great but it’s important to never forget the measures that were taken to divide our society and created 2 tiers of people - fundamentally wrong and should be condemned by everyone.

 

[grampositive]

Where did you say domestically I must have missed that?! You said it wasn’t affecting people in the U.K. - I showed an example of how it does. Yes it is up to other countries what they do - that doesn’t take away that they’re doing it though does it?! Also the countries I mentioned also don’t accept tests - it’s vaccines only.

It did affect people domestically within the U.K. during the winter months of 21’ being forbidden from attending concerts, restaurants and bars. It has changed now which is great but it’s important to never forget the measures that were taken to divide our society and created 2 tiers of people - fundamentally wrong and should be condemned by everyone.

When I said "in the UK" I thought it was obvious I meant domestically, but clearly not!

Yes - there were mandates at different points in the pandemic, but I didn't ever say there weren't? Policies changed quickly based on level of transmission at the time.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

When I said "in the UK" I thought it was obvious I meant domestically, but clearly not!

Yes - there were mandates at different points in the pandemic, but I didn't ever say there weren't? Policies changed quickly based on level of transmission at the time.

Well no it’s not obvious because for example, in Ireland they are free to travel to the Netherlands on an Irish passport without a vaccine so the rule is different just because I am an unvaccinated British citizen in the U.K.

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

I'll just pop this here for all of us "misinformed" people. Have a good Sunday peeps

I'm always heavily skeptical of out of context quotes with no dates on them so I am left with the question of whether anything was said that was at odds with what was known at the time or if there's caveats that were too long to be included in a short set of clips etc.
Extra drama with what seems to be dozens of headline variants of the same story about the same report but feels like it's being presented in such a way as to push a 'vaccine lies' narrative.

Though I tend not to trust compilations posted on social media anyway, regardless of subject because people rarely put these things together if they don't have some 'angle' they want to get across.

Not sure if that now includes me as misinformed or wilfully ignorant or possibly even both

 

[Freedomofspeech89]

I'm always heavily skeptical of out of context quotes with no dates on them so I am left with the question of whether anything was said that was at odds with what was known at the time or if there's caveats that were too long to be included in a short set of clips etc.
Extra drama with what seems to be dozens of headline variants of the same story about the same report but feels like it's being presented in such a way as to push a 'vaccine lies' narrative.

Though I tend not to trust compilations posted on social media anyway, regardless of subject because people rarely put these things together if they don't have some 'angle' they want to get across.

Not sure if that now includes me as misinformed or wilfully ignorant or possibly even both

I don't trust any of it @Doctor_Wibble. But above all I certainly don't trust those "vaccines".

 

[grampositive]

I don't trust any of it @Doctor_Wibble. But above all I certainly don't trust those "vaccines".

Why share a clip from social media if you dn't trust it though, @Freedomofspeech89?

And why vaccines in quotations marks? What makes you distrustful of these vaccines specifically (I'm assuming this is true for moderna/AZ/pfizer etc)?

 

[monga]

How can people make informed choices when they're still adding to the side effect list ! what other vaccine has been used so frequently in such a short time with no follow up on how an individual's immune system / body is coping with it

 

[grampositive]

How can people make informed choices when they're still adding to the side effect list ! what other vaccine has been used so frequently in such a short time with no follow up on how an individual's immune system / body is coping with it

I don't believe any additional side effects have been identified beyond those established some time ago - this makese sense as a vaccine cannot induce long term emerging side effects based on how they work.

Yes rolling out a vaccine to so many people at once is unprecented - but this is a good thing in terms of safety data - as billions of doses have been given out this gives us statistical power to detect even very rare side effects. No vaccine(s) in history has been so heavily scrutinised.

Not sure why you think there's no follow up though? ‘Phase 4’ of clinical research, or post-marketing surveillance is ongoing- this is normal & occurs with all newly approved vaccines or drugs

 

[monga]

I don't believe any additional side effects have been identified beyond those established some time ago - this makese sense as a vaccine cannot induce long term emerging side effects based on how they work.

Yes rolling out a vaccine to so many people at once is unprecented - but this is a good thing in terms of safety data - as billions of doses have been given out this gives us statistical power to detect even very rare side effects. No vaccine(s) in history has been so heavily scrutinised.

Not sure why you think there's no follow up though? ‘Phase 4’ of clinical research, or post-marketing surveillance is ongoing- this is normal & occurs with all newly approved vaccines or drugs

Clinical trials are just that, they don’t account for the majority of the population, how could they identify which vaccine was at fault when they’re mixing them? and how many post-mortems are carried out in the age groups most targeted for vaccines?

 

[grampositive]

Clinical trials are just that, they don’t account for the majority of the population, how could they identify which vaccine was at fault when they’re mixing them? and how many post-mortems are carried out in the age groups most targeted for vaccines?

Sure - we know that trials are not representative of the general population, however in this case billions of vaccine doses have been given out which gives a better than usual picture of side effects across demographic groups.

An individual knows which vaccine they have been given, therefore if they experience side effects this information can be extracted and used in analysis.

Not sure what you're getting at regarding post-mortems? In an ideal world what are you thinking should be happening? If someone dies due to unnatural causes this is investigated, which can include a PM. This would include deaths where a vaccine is thought to be a causal factor.

It's tricky to debate this on forums such as these- you said quite a few things which are untrue in your last post which I've pointed out. But instead of replying or acknowledging this you've just scattergunned a load of new claims?

 

[monga]

Sure - we know that trials are not representative of the general population, however in this case billions of vaccine doses have been given out which gives a better than usual picture of side effects across demographic groups.

An individual knows which vaccine they have been given, therefore if they experience side effects this information can be extracted and used in analysis.

Not sure what you're getting at regarding post-mortems? In an ideal world what are you thinking should be happening? If someone dies due to unnatural causes this is investigated, which can include a PM. This would include deaths where a vaccine is thought to be a causal factor.

I’m talking about nursing home deaths in particular where there’s not always a post-mortem carried out how would they know if it was a contributing factor , same as it’s impossible to pinpoint what vaccine would be responsible once they’re mixed, they still have no idea of the cause or who could be affected by VITT and we’re two years in

 

[I'm that Diva]

An individual knows which vaccine they have been given, therefore if they experience side effects this information can be extracted and used in analysis.

Some people have had mixed vaccines with the booster being different from the first two.

 

[grampositive]

Some people have had mixed vaccines with the booster being different from the first two.

Yes of course - but the point still stands that we have records of which vaccine someone had and when.

Vaccines do not induce side effects that emerge over the long term - so it is relatively simple to unpick which specific dose is likely to have be associated with a specific side effects.

 

[Piff paff puff]

as someone working in this field

 

[grampositive]

I’m talking about nursing home deaths in particular where there’s not always a post-mortem carried out how would they know if it was a contributing factor , same as it’s impossible to pinpoint what vaccine would be responsible once they’re mixed, they still have no idea of the cause or who could be affected by VITT and we’re two years in

It is not impossible as described above.

Regarding deaths - this is easy to study as we have robust figures regarding rates of mortality in the general population.

We know that mortality rates are much much lower in those vaccinated versus those unvaccinated, specifically in those of the age group who reside in care homes.

Aye @Piff paff puff - I'm an anonymous person on the internet - could be a labrador in a wig for all you know.

The only reason I said it was in response to a poster asking how anyone with a knowledge of recent data would choose to be vaccinated - just putting the alternative viewpoint out there that I'm literally a working scientist & still happy with my decision. Would also see no problem in having an annual booster if offered.

 

[monga]

It is not impossible as described above.

Regarding deaths - this is easy to study as we have robust figures regarding rates of mortality in the general population.

We know that mortality rates are much much lower in those vaccinated versus those unvaccinated, specifically in those of the age group who reside in care homes.

Aye @Piff paff puff - I'm an anonymous person on the internet - could be a labrador in a wig for all you know.

The only reason I said it was in response to a poster asking how anyone with a knowledge of recent data would choose to be vaccinated - just putting the alternative viewpoint out there that I'm literally a working scientist & still happy with my decision. Would also see no problem in having an annual booster if offered.

Is it not true that old people have the highest rate of mortality regardless of vaccine status that’s never changed.