COVID-19 vaccine #11 and general vaccine conversation

[HaggisInMyBin]

Can anyone else pinpoint the time when they decided not to or to have the vaccine?

I decided before it was even launched, it was when they were on the countdown to it being a breakthrough vaccine. There and then I said to my husband I'm not having any vaccine. I'm on immunosuppressants and for me there isn't enough research on reactions to other drugs, there can't possibly be with the length of time it's been available.

My decision was only enhanced when the info came out about it only reducing symptoms and you still being able to pass it on. I'd not had Covid at this point either.

We don't watch the news, we barely watched the press conferences. I couldn't even tell you about the vaccine programme and the types you can have with or without the other. I don't feel the need to know as I won't be having them.

I haven’t been locked in a room on the deep dark web trawling for conspiracy theories as some people assume!

My husband doesn't want it either and that is the right decision for us

Late to this ‘party’ but happy to answer.

I decided not to have it ‘in the near future’ before it was even announced as being in trials. I don’t know why but I knew as soon as they mentioned it I had a gut feeling it wasn’t going to be limited to the elderly and vulnerable. At that point in time I watched BBC news. We tuned in to all the briefings and announcements. We were scared. I’m early 40’s but was offered it earlier than the rest of my age group due to a preexisting condition. I declined. Repeatedly. And I still am.

We followed all the guidelines. My kids could’ve got a school place due to having a key-worker step parent but instead I quit my job to keep them home and not take up spaces from others (I recognise I was incredibly fortunate to be in the position to do that). We saw no one. Our shopping was delivered. We didn’t even visit my elderly FIL as my MIL was languishing in hospital.

Pre Covid I was probably as far away from what anyone would class as a CT. My job involved taking data from various sources, analysing it, recognising where my company had f’d up and would be penalised, and tweaking charts and graphs so it was presented in a way that our clients wouldn’t notice and penalties would be minimised. I probably love Excel more than I love people. It just didn’t stack up to me. It still doesn’t.

My husband turned 50 after the roll out (and after I’d been offered it) and he booked in as soon as he could.

My 12 year old son hasn’t had it. Neither me (unvaccinated), his father (vaccinated) or my husband (vaccinated) wish for him to have it. Nor does he himself. My 10 year old won’t be having it either.

It's unpalatable, I agree but sadly I am of the view that it is necessary. If people aren't prepared to make the smallest of sacrifices of taking a vaccine to protect the most vulnerable people in their care...

Were you clapping for those same people in 2020 when they were caring for the most vulnerable under crap conditions and at the detriment of their own well-being?

 

[Hot_Dogs_Or_Toes]

Late to this ‘party’ but happy to answer.

I decided not to have it ‘in the near future’ before it was even announced as being in trials. I don’t know why but I knew as soon as they mentioned it I had a gut feeling it wasn’t going to be limited to the elderly and vulnerable. At that point in time I watched BBC news. We tuned in to all the briefings and announcements. We were scared. I’m early 40’s but was offered it earlier than the rest of my age group due to a preexisting condition. I declined. Repeatedly. And I still am.

We followed all the guidelines. My kids could’ve got a school place due to having a key-worker step parent but instead I quit my job to keep them home and not take up spaces from others (I recognise I was incredibly fortunate to be in the position to do that). We saw no one. Our shopping was delivered. We didn’t even visit my elderly FIL as my MIL was languishing in hospital.

Pre Covid I was probably as far away from what anyone would class as a CT. My job involved taking data from various sources, analysing it, recognising where my company had f’d up and would be penalised, and tweaking charts and graphs so it was presented in a way that our clients wouldn’t notice and penalties would be minimised. I probably love Excel more than I love people. It just didn’t stack up to me. It still doesn’t.

My husband turned 50 after the roll out (and after I’d been offered it) and he booked in as soon as he could.

My 12 year old son hasn’t had it. Neither me (unvaccinated), his father (vaccinated) or my husband (vaccinated) wish for him to have it. Nor does he himself. My 10 year old won’t be having it either.


Were you clapping for those same people in 2020 when they were caring for the most vulnerable under crap conditions and at the detriment of their own well-being?

I was, they do an amazing job under really tough conditions. There was no vaccine at that point of course so there was no choice but to risk people's lives by exposing them to staff that could have infected them. There is a choice now.

You decided not to have the vaccine before you even knew anything about it? Where is the logic in that?

 

[monga]

I was, they do an amazing job under really tough conditions. There was no vaccine at that point of course so there was no choice but to risk people's lives by exposing them to staff that could have infected them. There is a choice now.

The vaccine doesn't stop transmission ,there is no choice.

Can fully vaccinated people spread the omicron variant to others? What the CDC says

The CDC revealed that fully vaccinated people can spread the coronavirus.

www.deseret.com

 

[HaggisInMyBin]

But thats not happening in real life is it? Triple and double vaccinated people are spreading it like wildfire, In my team alone we have three triple vaccinated staff off isolating who have all spread it to one another.

But don’t viruses mutate and become less deadly though, I thought that was basic science?

I am a hugely caring and compassionate person so I am told often by patients and my vaccine status has nothing to do with my level of care and compassion.

I’m unvaccinated. My husband is vaccinated. It rarely comes up among our peers so I have no idea of the split but between us we’ve asked about 20/30 friends/colleagues/acquaintances “would you care if the staff caring for your family member is vaccinated or would you be more concerned about the level of care”. None of them have said they’d be more concerned about vaccine status. 4 of them have elderly parents/in laws in care homes that they can’t visit because despite being 100% vaccinated, they’re in lockdown, again. The primary concern among them seems to be the detrimental impact this is having, again. Particularly to those with dementia. It’s horrific.

 

[Hot_Dogs_Or_Toes]

The vaccine doesn't stop transmission ,there is no choice.

The vaccine doesn't eliminate transmission 100% correct but it does reduce transmission so there is a benefit. What is about the vaccine that means you have decided not to take it? Is it the fear of ending up with one of the severe side effects? I can understand your mindset at least if it is that.

 

[monga]

The vaccine doesn't eliminate transmission 100% correct but it does reduce transmission so there is a benefit. What is about the vaccine that means you have decided not to take it? Is it the fear of ending up with one of the severe side effects? I can understand your mindset at least if it is that.

I’m triple vaccinated I’m not against it for those where the benefits outweigh the risk but I’ll be damned if I’ll give my healthy children a lifetime of medication they don’t need…show me the proof it stops transmission.

 

[Hot_Dogs_Or_Toes]

I’m triple vaccinated I’m not against it for those where the benefits outweigh the risk but I’ll be damned if I’ll give my healthy children a lifetime of medication they don’t need…show me the proof it stops transmission.

Your children are more at risk from the effects they may get by having more serious Covid.

Nobody has said that vaccines stop transmission fully.

 

[monga]

Your children are more at risk from the effects they may get by having more serious Covid.

Nobody has said that vaccines stop transmission fully.

Where have you seen that ? there is no Wahun strain anymore it's gotten milder to affect the upper respiratory tract the same demographic of people are dying regardless of vaccine status ,you don't seem to understand that ,anyone that's CEV will always be CEV the vaccines are not a cure.

 

[Hot_Dogs_Or_Toes]

Where have you seen that ? there is no Wahun strain anymore it's gotten milder to affect the upper respiratory tract the same demographic of people are dying regardless of vaccine status ,you don't seem to understand that ,anyone that's CEV will always be CEV the vaccines are not a cure.

Children are more likely to die from Covid than from the vaccine:

Children are more likely to die from Covid than vaccination - Full Fact

At least 25 children have sadly died from Covid in England alone, but we can find no evidence of a child dying as a result of the vaccine.

fullfact.org

 

[HaggisInMyBin]

I was, they do an amazing job under really tough conditions. There was no vaccine at that point of course so there was no choice but to risk people's lives by exposing them to staff that could have infected them. There is a choice now.

You decided not to have the vaccine before you even knew anything about it? Where is the logic in that?

Yes, there is a choice now. And they should be allowed to chose. In the same way that I could chose to refuse treatment for any other diagnosis because I may not want it. Or you could refuse to go to hospital for treatment because you might not agree with the choices of some of the staff.

I quite clearly stated I decided I didn’t want to have it “in the near future” before knowing anything about it. Please don’t cherry pick my words.

 

[monga]

Children are more likely to die from Covid than from the vaccine:

Children are more likely to die from Covid than vaccination - Full Fact

At least 25 children have sadly died from Covid in England alone, but we can find no evidence of a child dying as a result of the vaccine.

fullfact.org

Heartbreaking for those 25 families how many had underlying conditions ? and what percentage ( sad to think of people as a statistic ) of the population is it ?

 

[Hot_Dogs_Or_Toes]

Patients don't have a choice whether they require hospital treatment or not though do they, they get ill and need treatment. They shouldn't have their health put at further detriment because some of the staff are afraid of having the vaccine.

So, now you know more about the vaccine are you leaning towards having it or would you say you are even further away from having it?

 

[monga]

Patients don't have a choice whether they require hospital treatment or not though do they, they get ill and need treatment. They shouldn't have their health put at further detriment because some of the staff are afraid of having the vaccine.

So, now you know more about the vaccine are you leaning towards having it or would you say you are even further away from having it?

Fully vaccinated staff still pass it on what part of this do you not understand ,the vaccines don't stop transmission

 

[Hot_Dogs_Or_Toes]

Fully vaccinated staff still pass it on what part of this do you not understand ,the vaccines don't stop transmission

I think we've been over this now. They help to REDUCE transmission. Nobody anywhere has ever said that vaccines stop transmission so please stop saying that.

 

[HaggisInMyBin]

The vaccine doesn't eliminate transmission 100% correct but it does reduce transmission so there is a benefit. What is about the vaccine that means you have decided not to take it? Is it the fear of ending up with one of the severe side effects? I can understand your mindset at least if it is that.

For me, it was a gut reaction. I studied Immunology at Uni for over 2.5yrs until I switched to a different science based course for my last (hon) year (Scottish - 4yr Hons degrees). My career subsequently (although not in that area of science) has been data driven. I’ve put all of the PHS, PHE (now UKHSA) data into my own spreadsheets and done my own risk/benefit analysis. I’m quite happy in my choice for me by me. I have a preexisting condition. I would never dream of expecting anyone else to alter their way of life to look after me. We are all self accountable for our day to day health.

 

[monga]

I think we've been over this now. They help to REDUCE transmission. Nobody anywhere has ever said that vaccines stop transmission so please stop saying that.

It only takes one case to start an epidemic, they do not reduce anything look around you the world is consumed in it we've got billions of cases you're obviously looking at the old strain .Look at how many repeat infections are being registered .

 

[HaggisInMyBin]

Patients don't have a choice whether they require hospital treatment or not though do they, they get ill and need treatment. They shouldn't have their health put at further detriment because some of the staff are afraid of having the vaccine.

So, now you know more about the vaccine are you leaning towards having it or would you say you are even further away from having it?

“Patients don’t have a choice whether they require hospital treatment or not…..” is a sweeping generalisation. There are obviously some patients that really do need to be seem be various specialist units (oncology, cardio, neuro, radio, etc to name but a few) and they should be seen. But a load of them don’t. I’m prepared to take a panning for this but the amount of people who have such a sense of entitlement to be seen at the slightest hint of a sniffle is astounding. They can’t get a gp appointment, the walk in centre isn’t a walk in centre now so they go to A&E instead, taking up valuable resources which they then piss and moan about.

As for “So, now you know more about the vaccine are you leaning towards having it or would you say you are even further away from having it?” Honestly, further. My double vaccinated husband tested +ve before the festive period. He was rough and is still not right. We didn’t isolate from him. I shared a bed with him. My kids came into our room. We shared sofas and watched movies. None of us had any issues.

Fwiw my kids (and I) have had more vaccinations than most of their peers as we’ve been fortunate enough to travel extensively. All of those have been individually considered on a risk/benefit analysis basis. When weighing up the risk/benefit analysis of vaccines for Typhoid, Japanese Encephalitis or Cholera vaccines, it was never about the greater good. And no one has ever got upset about the fact they’ve not had the annual flu spray up their nose historically either.

 

[xyzcba]

Children are more likely to die from Covid than from the vaccine:

Children are more likely to die from Covid than vaccination - Full Fact

At least 25 children have sadly died from Covid in England alone, but we can find no evidence of a child dying as a result of the vaccine.

fullfact.org

Who checks the fact checkers though?

You also have to consider your sources, who funds them, and what they have to gain by sharing that information. That goes for ALL media.

Personally I think it makes sense to read various sources, not just those that form an echo-chamber - and consider those that have the biggest to lose/most financial benefits to gain, will shout the loudest.

Who Fact Checks The Fact Checking Companies ?

They describe themselves as “impartial” and having “no conflicts of interest” but are they really as impartial as they make out. Let’s have a look at 3 of them, shall we ? Reuters, Factcheck.org and Full Fact New Thread/Post Within the last few weeks Dr Robert Malone on the Joe Rogan show used...

threadsirish.substack.com

"It should be abundantly clear by now that media companies, big tech and even vaccine manufacturers are very influential in the funding of Fact Checking companies and no doubt the information they put into the public domain. Fact checkers are being used by MSM and big tech as authorised information controllers and want them to do your thinking for you which is pretty Orwellian in nature."

 

[HaggisInMyBin]

Who checks the fact checkers though?

You also have to consider your sources, who funds them, and what they have to gain by sharing that information. That goes for ALL media.

Personally I think it makes sense to read various sources, not just those that form an echo-chamber - and consider those that have the biggest to lose/most financial benefits to gain, will shout the loudest.

Who Fact Checks The Fact Checking Companies ?

They describe themselves as “impartial” and having “no conflicts of interest” but are they really as impartial as they make out. Let’s have a look at 3 of them, shall we ? Reuters, Factcheck.org and Full Fact New Thread/Post Within the last few weeks Dr Robert Malone on the Joe Rogan show used...

threadsirish.substack.com

"It should be abundantly clear by now that media companies, big tech and even vaccine manufacturers are very influential in the funding of Fact Checking companies and no doubt the information they put into the public domain. Fact checkers are being used by MSM and big tech as authorised information controllers and want them to do your thinking for you which is pretty Orwellian in nature."

Precisely, who checks (funds) the fact checkers?

FullFact appear to be, by their own admission partly funded by some of those well meaning philanthropic, paragons of virtue such as Facebook and Google.

Obviously that doesn’t impact their impartiality in responding to anything in any way shape or form.

 

[givepeasachance]

duck me, does anyone on here actually sleep??!!!