Childfree

[Anne1448]

I think this says a lot more about the type of person your friend chose to have a kid with to be honest! What a waste of space. To give my partner credit I do think he’d be a great hands on dad, but even so I still think there’s this “unwritten rule” that the lions share of the childbearing goes to the mother. He would never act like this hole your friend is with but I still worry that the day to day stuff would fall with me while he goes to work. I already do much of the cooking, cleaning, laundry etc - and can see myself getting so resentful of me looking after the kids while he chilled on the sofa after a “hard day”. I know if I asked him to help that he would 100%, I just don’t like that I’d even have to ask. Women shouldn’t have to be the default parent!

Even with the most supportive partner you may be doing a lot of the work. When you think about picking kids after school, doctors appointments or even dealing with a tantrum usually women will do it straight away. As time goes by their partners will then expect them to handle it. Also, after 4-5 years your husband may be earning way more than you. Which means that you will be expected to always step back professionally and take days off to handle the child.

I have seen it personally with my parents. They decided to have my brothers and I early because they both had good earnings and the house was paid for. After a few years, my mom asked my father to be a stay at home dad since she earned more than him. He tried for a while but his job kept ringing him to come back (he is the Head of a school department). It ended up with a divorce because my mom kept asking him to take charge of the household too but he refused to focus on his career. My mom's career took a massive hit while my father's salary is 12 times the national average.

Two career oriented people can not manage a household with kids because you need at least one who is willing to take a hit professionally. Like they say "There can't be two captains on a ship.".

 

[judgejohndeed]

When I first met my partner he wanted children. He was also a bit of a 'expected me to change my name when we get married, will eventually be a SAHM' type. Not because he is anti women or anything - it's just how things had always been done in his family, and I don't think he'd ever really been given cause to question it. Anyway, the first time children etc came up and he was talking about how one day I could 'work part time' I put it to him that seeing as he was the one who wanted the children, perhaps he could be the one to go part time and I would continue to work full time. He was FURIOUS at the suggestion and obviously I explained that's exactly how I felt having it put to me that I should minimise my career goals to stay at home doing something I didn't want to do. He has fortunately opened his mind over time, but it's very interesting to me that he now also does not want children now that he knows how it feels to be asked what he was happy to ask of me. I suppose it's very easy to 'want' children when you don't really have to consider the full practicalities, or you just expect that someone else will do all the donkey work. It does make me a bit suspicious now when I meet men who claim they really want kids, if I'm honest. I know in some cases that will be unfair and there are some men who would love to be stay at home Dads or whatever but most of the time it's a red flag.

 

[Satisfying Click]

Yeah, it seems to be a trend among people I know that the men are outwardly modern in their thinking and roles (at least, they enjoy the benefits of two incomes) until it comes to children, then there's a weird regression to the guy that sits in his armchair, glaring at the children over the top of his broadsheet. Certainly none of the fathers I know made any noises about being the main caregiver, no matter how 'hands on' (eugh, hate that phrase) they seem.

 

[DisgruntledGoat]

When I first met my partner he wanted children. He was also a bit of a 'expected me to change my name when we get married, will eventually be a SAHM' type. Not because he is anti women or anything - it's just how things had always been done in his family, and I don't think he'd ever really been given cause to question it. Anyway, the first time children etc came up and he was talking about how one day I could 'work part time' I put it to him that seeing as he was the one who wanted the children, perhaps he could be the one to go part time and I would continue to work full time. He was FURIOUS at the suggestion and obviously I explained that's exactly how I felt having it put to me that I should minimise my career goals to stay at home doing something I didn't want to do. He has fortunately opened his mind over time, but it's very interesting to me that he now also does not want children now that he knows how it feels to be asked what he was happy to ask of me. I suppose it's very easy to 'want' children when you don't really have to consider the full practicalities, or you just expect that someone else will do all the donkey work. It does make me a bit suspicious now when I meet men who claim they really want kids, if I'm honest. I know in some cases that will be unfair and there are some men who would love to be stay at home Dads or whatever but most of the time it's a red flag.

Yes, an ex of mine had an extremely career-driven ex-wife and he said that she had never wanted children, but one day he said he had this sudden rush and rang her from a payphone (he’s that old) to say he desperately wanted children and he’d be a stay-at-home dad so she could keep her high-flying job. She reluctantly agreed. Anyway three kids later he got bored and fucked the family off so she’s stuck with the kids almost all of the time and trying to run a business remotely while he gallavants about (yet he still has the gall to be salty that she got the house). Even men with the very best of intentions I don’t trust to stick it out for the full match.

 

[JoeBloggs]

My husband has openly said he would be a stay at home dad, but to him this means laying in and playing fifa. While he is very domesticated and modern in may ways, he has no concept of what is involved in running a house and he can't just switch off like he does from work.

 

[Satisfying Click]

I may have mentioned this ex previously (the one who believed raising children was like something out of Disney) - he was also talking about how he would love and excel at being a stay at home dad (sure, Jan). When I said it also included running of the household, like doctor's appointments, meal planning, the school run, etc, his face slowly started to drop. He's now a father of two. Reader, he is not a stay at home dad.

 

[HoGi]

My husband has openly said he would be a stay at home dad, but to him this means laying in and playing fifa. While he is very domesticated and modern in may ways, he has no concept of what is involved in running a house and he can't just switch off like he does from work.

Pretty sure this is what my husband thinks it entails too

I earn more than my husband, so if we did ever have kids then he would be dropping more hours than me.

 

[Kim Mild]

I honestly think there isn't as much difference between being a parent and being child free for men . Obviously there are changes for them but it's something in their brain.

 

[springer123]

I honestly think there isn't as much difference between being a parent and being child free for men . Obviously there are changes for them but it's something in their brain.

I know what you mean my OH spends most nights out with mates and weekends sleeping half the time. Bet he'd forget the kids names easy enough.

 

[prozacprincess]

My husband just ordered a brand new truck 🛻 and some of his workmates made comments about how they’d love to do that but all their money goes on the kids.
He came home tonight, hugged me and told me how glad he was that he married a woman who would rather have a big ass truck than a baby

 

[jaymie]

Even with the most supportive partner you may be doing a lot of the work. When you think about picking kids after school, doctors appointments or even dealing with a tantrum usually women will do it straight away. As time goes by their partners will then expect them to handle it. Also, after 4-5 years your husband may be earning way more than you. Which means that you will be expected to always step back professionally and take days off to handle the child.

I have seen it personally with my parents. They decided to have my brothers and I early because they both had good earnings and the house was paid for. After a few years, my mom asked my father to be a stay at home dad since she earned more than him. He tried for a while but his job kept ringing him to come back (he is the Head of a school department). It ended up with a divorce because my mom kept asking him to take charge of the household too but he refused to focus on his career. My mom's career took a massive hit while my father's salary is 12 times the national average.

Two career oriented people can not manage a household with kids because you need at least one who is willing to take a hit professionally. Like they say "There can't be two captains on a ship.".

I grew up in East Asia and now we are living in the UK.

Obviously generalising here, what I realised it that, because of the family structure like how grandparents are so involved (I hate it, but that is a topic for another day!), many couples were able to keep their high paying jobs and no one really has to take a hit professionally.

Many of my mates's MIL/ parents are taking care of their kids. They dropped the kids off at 8am and they can come home anytime - it means that young professionals can focus on their 'careers', there is no need to rush home to pick up your kids from the nursery. Parents/ MIL voluntarily wants to be involved! (In Asia, staying late despite doing duck all is viewed favourably. You don't leave until your boss leaves). Also, some people can employ a live-in maid that clean, feed and cook because of how cheap it is. Imagine you get home at 7pm, kids are feed, house is clean and laundry is fold.

I don't have a kid now, but I do feel bitter that one of us would need to take a hit. But do I want my parents/MIL to be so hands on, HELL NO!

Sorry I know this is a little bit off topic!

 

[hiya_hun]

Does anyone else get the fan flutters for people in the public eye who have no children (whether or not it is known if it is a conscious choice)?
Watching Line of Duty over my husband's shoulder and his obsessive Wikipedia habit informed me Vicky McClure has no children and is just a smidge older than me. She also seems really cool in general.

I guess it is just basic representation isn't it really? Maybe I'm feeling it more now I am more solid in my decision to not have children.

Seth Rogan is my fave child free person! He’s spoken openly about him and his wife choosing not to have kids quite a lot!

 

[Saddlesoap]

Seth Rogan is my fave child free person! He’s spoken openly about him and his wife choosing not to have kids quite a lot!

I did not know this. Thanks!

 

[ot55]

Went to a bbq this weekend with some of my boyfriend’s couple friends and since we’re buying a house they started talking about us having kids. He’s already told them we don’t want kids but we went through the whole thing again. They couldn’t possibly believe that I don’t get broody when holding a newborn I don’t even want to hold a newborn. But yeah no one made any remarks like that to him.

Meanwhile, one of their children was chasing a cat around the garden with a guitar trying to smack it

 

[Satisfying Click]

Many of my mates's MIL/ parents are taking care of their kids. They dropped the kids off at 8am and they can come home anytime - it means that young professionals can focus on their 'careers', there is no need to rush home to pick up your kids from the nursery. Parents/ MIL voluntarily wants to be involved! (In Asia, staying late despite doing duck all is viewed favourably. You don't leave until your boss leaves). Also, some people can employ a live-in maid that clean, feed and cook because of how cheap it is. Imagine you get home at 7pm, kids are feed, house is clean and laundry is fold.

Out of my close family members with children, they heavily rely on their parents to provide (unpaid) childcare.

 

[Anne1448]

Out of my close family members with children, they heavily rely on their parents to provide (unpaid) childcare.

I can't imagine doing that to my parents.

Actually my mom wouldn't even consider it. She talked openly to my brothers and I about how she hated being a parent. The fact that it destroyed her career, her savings and freedom in general is something that she resent my father for. They both decided to have children together but he basically left the ship to focus on his career forgetting that he had children at home.

There is close to not difference between a child-free man and a divorced man. Men can walk away from their kids any time or do the bare minimum without any consequences. Thankfully now judges will force fathers to pay alimonies but so many fathers still refuse to spend time with their kids after a divorce.

When I am approached romantically by divorced men who never talk about their children or constantly avoid spending them with them I consider it a huge red flag. It means to me that they are either not responsible or incredibly selfish.

 

[JoeBloggs]

My mum has also openly said she will not be child care and I respect that, she gave up her career for me and why should she give up her latter years for a grandchild, granted she could financially give up her work for me. I could be it would be very tight.

Perhaps I am in the minority, but I am 31 and I only know of a handful of people my age with kids, these are more old school friend etc. None of my friends are married and none have kids. I never really have to give kids a thought nor is it mentioned because its very normal. We are going to a 30th BBQ at the weekend, there will be no kids as no one has any. Lots of dogs though

 

[jaymie]

Out of my close family members with children, they heavily rely on their parents to provide (unpaid) childcare.

Unpaid is terrible. Just to provide some context, I was brought up by my grandmother, she did get paid, mum and dad had office jobs. Mum picked me up from grandma’s everyday and dropped me off every morning. I don’t think they work because of ‘career’ but more so to provide additional income to the family. Many grandparents in Asia are happy to be involved, no one force them, you will start a ww3 of you deny their childminding opportunities but things are slowly changing though with the older generation slowly dying.

The plus side is that I get to attend classes and has a pretty comfortable upbringing. When I was young, I was jealous that my friends have a SAHM, now, I wouldn’t have it any other way. The fact that my mum earns her income, it makes her feel complete, perhaps less resentful and I was able to go on summer camp/ piano class/ go on holiday. Win-win for our family.

I think essentially what I am saying here is that, having a family will affect your lifestyle but your individual circumstances and privilege will dictate the trade-off you need to make.

 

[theweekend]

Men can walk away from their kids any time or do the bare minimum without any consequences.

I genuinely believe that they're fully aware of this and it's a big part of the reason why so many men are so keen to have kids. Maybe only subconsciously, but they know that they have the option of tapping out anytime if they cba and become fun dad that sees their kids once a fortnight.

There's nothing worse for me than men gloating about how much they love and see their kids after a break up (on programmes like First Dates for example). Well bleeping done. Do you want a medal? Or worse, women simping over single dads. It's not as if women have been doing the same thing - and been slated for it - since the beginning of time

 

[Satisfying Click]

There's nothing worse for me than men gloating about how much they love and see their kids after a break up (on programmes like First Dates for example). Well bleeping done. Do you want a medal? Or worse, women simping over single dads. It's not as if women have been doing the same thing - and been slated for it - since the beginning of time

This absolutely does my nut in. *Man changes nappy* "OMG, he's so great with kids!" Same goes with the fawning over men who do basic household chores.