Brianna Ghey Murder Trial #3

[Inghamtat]

I clearly am of an unpopular opinion, but Boy Y’s defence was actually surprisingly good considering there was little to go off.

He has noted that Boy Y’s account of the events never changed and was consistent with the independent witness evidence etc. The witness SAW Boy Y, walk over to, bend down and touch Brianna, whilst Girl X stood to the side.

Boy Y’s defence is probably correct in saying Girl X stole their defence. It’s not a weak comment, it’s a fact. They have been able to prove it.

Girl X seems to have actually stolen Boy Y’s story once she realised the whole Manchester thing wasn’t going to work. The independent witness evidence does not fit with Girl X’s made up story.

Girl X said she was stood over Brianna when Boy Y had run off, not true. Witness saw both Defendants standing in the vicinity of Brianna. That means, Girl X also lied about following Boy Y. As pointed out by Boy Y’s defence she was actually in front , Boy Y following
which was Boy Y’s story from the start.

Boy Y’s defence has surprisingly managed to plant how much of a liar Girl X actually is, it has shown her in a very negative light, almost making him seem quite innocent. Of course they had little to say about the stabbing part.

I’d read back through Boy Y’s closing speech very slowly, and you will see it’s actually quite strong.
(of course ignoring the reference to Tesco Meal Deal etc)

 

[hooplifehero]

I think this is a very cherry-picked argument, considering that violence against trans people happens on a sickeningly regular basis.

This is often said, but I am not sure if any data really backs it up - compared for instance to violence against women. In fact, I think I could find half a dozen cases in a short space of time where trans women have committed some form of violence.

Do I think they murdered Brianna because she was transgender? No, but my heart breaks for the absolutely disgusting transphobic things they said about her.

Like 'she's prettier than me'? Boy Y said some crude, stupid things, but Girl X accepted Brianna as a young woman, admired and even envied her. Where did that get Brianna? I'm afraid people will have to accept that Girl X was not transphobic and yet that Brianna was still murdered. People are, tragically, killed for all sorts of reasons. Transphobia doesn't always come into it.

 

[fishyfishfish]

This has been suggested by the prosecution. I'd not put this together myself and not seen the same speculated here, but spoiling as it is fucking awful.

Spoiler: Theory as to why Boy Y was seen bending down next to Brianna

“Boy Y says all I wanted was to see what size d*** it had. Was that why Boy Y approached Brianna as she lay on the ground in Linear Park?

 

[lookwhatthecatdraggedin1]

Spoke to my cousin before who is mates with girl X’s mum, they actually met at uni and have remained friends since. She has known girl X since she was young and said she was always a lovely girl but very quiet and never wanted to engage in conversation with her. Girls X’s mum apparently told her from the beginning when she first got arrested if she had done it she was to face the consequences and not lie about what had happened, we all know she’s lied so I wonder what her relationship with her mum is going to be now 🫣 My cousin is meeting up with her mum after Christmas for some dinner so I’ll find out if anything else has been said since

 

[MrsDimSum]

Y has gone back to his unit. After hearing how his barrister spoke I would too, that had to have gone down like a lead balloon with the jury.

He’ll be glad not to be seeing the light of day for the next 25 years after thinking he’s so fucking smart and smug in court and then being referred to as a Tesco Meal Deal

 

[HotesTilaire]

Thanks Doris, I guess I could’ve just googled it oops
It’s not something I understand, why not just live and let live

TERF is an offensive term. It’s used as shorthand for women who don't care about transpeople, think they shouldn’t exist etc which isn’t strictly always true. I don’t think this thread needs to descend into judging people who are gender-critical or gender curious, there are dedicated threads to discuss gender.
Im sure we have trans people here, enby and cis and gender critical, we can all hold those opinions, acknowledge that not everyone agrees AND be horrified at the senseless murder of Brianna RIP by these two very twisted young people

 

[Vidyagaymes]

I Think due to the level of planning and intent involved they’re looking at a long sentence. It wasn’t an argument that went south out of the blue, it was a planned attack with intent to kill. They are dangerous! I don’t know if these kinds of people can be rehabilitated to be safe in public? Why would they not do it again? I guess this is a question for the parole hearing…

 

[Miggsy]

As has been said, so why did you bother responding

Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realise “why can’t everyone just beeeee kiiiiind?” was a rhetorical question.

I responded as this is a discussion forum and that’s kind of what it’s for. But you’re evidently not interested in anything other than virtue signalling and certainly not in educating yourself so I’ll leave it there.

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

I suppose Jon Venables & Robert Thompson are an example of the rehabilitation process. One seems to have been rehabilitated & has lived a normal unproblematic life since & the other continues to be an absolute wrongen.

Yep. Literally 50/50 in their case.

What they did was beyond heinous. It really was and I would never ever want to belittle it. But they both had incredibly problematic home lives. Thompson in particular. No child can live like that and come out unscathed and normal. It's just biologically not possible (or at least statistically incredibly unlikely). His parents were hugely to blame in poor James's death. Removing him from that was his only chance.

 

[CoopsLoops]

I’m not talking about neurodiversity as a whole I am just talking about him. How can he do all this planning and go through doing something horrific and trying to hide it but find a trial arduous?

I hope this helps you understand, and I genuinely don't mean that facetiously.

Putting aside his neurodiversity:

He'll have found the trial arduous because long trials ARE arduous. For anyone. Including adults.

Imagine sitting there with people looking at you, not being allowed to get up unless requested, not being able to write or do something with your hands, or chat. For an hour or so at a time, for about four hours a day in total on average. You could probably do that with little difficulty for a day. Even maybe a week. But that level of concentration for two or more weeks would be really hard.

Now imagine that what you're hearing is really emotionally intense, and hard to listen to without wanting to respond or react or immediately leave, but you can't. That takes more concentration.

Now imagine that you well as sitting there during the court hearings, you are also having to concentrate and participate in at least 30 minute sessions with your lawyers both before the day's hearing, and afterwards, and even possibly briefly at lunch.

Now imagine that at the end of the day, you can't relax fully and 'decompress' in the ways you'd normally do, like texting or being on the internet, because you're on remand and don't have freedom.

Now imagine that you are a teenager. Who physiologically are not able to focus as long or as deeply as adults can on things they don't want to do. You've never, ever been expected to sit and listen for hours on end in school - or for hours in total in a day, even if not consecutively- without being able to write, or do things practically with your hands, or ask questions. You've got no experience of the length of focus sitting as a defendant in a four-day trial requires of you, let alone a four-week one.

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

I will admit I would find it infuriating if I was her parent to watch him playing with a spinner and doing sudoku whilst also admitting he sat and passed 8 GCSEs and is studying five a levels whilst claiming it's due to concentration issues.

Little bit different though.... GCSE's max out at 2 hours and if you have ADHD or autism you'll actually have the same arrangements as in the court. He'd have been given movement breaks, something to fidget with and will have done it in a quiet room alone. His autism doesn't mean he can't concentrate, its more complex than that.

I agree the whole thing was harsh on Briannas parents but please let's not forget innocent until proven guilty. We must treat people facing criminal charges with kindness and understanding because the won't always be found guilty! Imagine having extreme anxiety, being implicated in a crime and having to go to court to prove it wasn't you. You would want them to treat you properly whilst you were being tried. This is similar. ADHD and autism are not and never will be an excuse for their behaviours but they both need reasonable adjustments in life wether people here agree with that or not.

My son has ADHD and is noise sensitive. If this has him (it won't ever ever be) he'd have to wear ear defenders. Not because he doesn't want to listen but because in order *to* listen he has to be able to block out those annoying distracting other noises. That would seem incredibly rude, I'm certain. But it wouldn't be. He also can't give eye contact and listen. He can do one or the other ... This too seems rude to strangers but it isn't. In fairness he can now manage both these things 100 times better with his medication but Y has autism not ADHD which can't be medicated and must just be understood.

 

[catlady29]

I have no words for this

I am in utter shock at this tweet....does this person have zero fear of consequences or something, that is an absolutely disgusting thing to say and I too hope that Rowling and others mentioned take legal action for this. What a vile opportunist character to go using Briannas death as twitter argument fodder.

 

[Loppylou89]

I am so relieved that they are both guilty and my heart breaks for Brianna's family and I will probably get hate for this but I also feel a bit sad for the families of X and Y

 

[queenamber]

Erm, Daily Mail, isn't that Virginia Giuffre?!

 

[CoopsLoops]

I can’t comprehend why someone would want to know tho names of the babies in the LL case. They’re babies. And victims! Not the perpetrators like X and Y. The babies and their families absolutely deserve privacy so as not to let this awful tragedy and crime give them more potential aggregation.

 

[blueyfan3684]

I suppose Jon Venables & Robert Thompson are an example of the rehabilitation process. One seems to have been rehabilitated & has lived a normal unproblematic life since & the other continues to be an absolute wrongen.

Just because he hasn’t been arrested doesn’t mean he’s had a normal, unproblematic life. In fact, I highly doubt anyone who committed such a heinous crime at the age of 10 could go on to be ‘normal’ in any way. He may keep under the radar but I have strong doubts he’s suddenly turned into a valuable member of society.

He’s apparently in a relationship with a man who knows of his past which is concerning. Anyone who’d be happy to have a partner with that past is dodgy themselves imo.

 

[hooplifehero]

I don’t think it’s right to have her deadname posted on here whether people know it or not

Many people don’t believe in the concept of “deadnames” as some sort of unspeakable taboo.

 

[blueyfan3684]

2nd Feb is quite a long time away. I hope Brianna's family can take some comfort knowing that they have been found guilty and will be in prison for a long time until the sentencing
---
JY: “In relation to both X and Y, professionals working with them urge me not to lift restrictions.”

Those making representations on behalf of Girl X say that doing so “will have ramifications for many years” and “identify concerns about her mental health and rehabilitation, as well as “risks to herself and her family”

Justice Yip says her family have “already received death threats”.

The representations on behalf of Boy Y have raised “concern for his mental health in the event that he becomes notorious”.

World gone mad. If they remain anonymous due to ‘mental health concerns’ it really is an outrage. Welcome to 2023 Britain where the most dangerous offenders get more rights than ever.

Couldn’t give a toss about their well-being. It’s a shame they didn’t put themselves at the top of their kill list instead.

 

[bluecups]

'One of the most distressing cases the Crown Prosecution Service has had to deal with'
The Crown Prosecution Service have issued a statement.
Deputy chief crown prosecutor Ursula Doyle said: “This has been one of the most distressing cases the Crown Prosecution Service has had to deal with. The planning, the violence and the age of the killers is beyond belief.
“Brianna Ghey was subjected to a frenzied and ferocious attack and was stabbed 28 times in broad daylight in a public park. Girl X and Boy Y appear to have been a deadly influence on each other and turned what may have started out as dark fantasies about murder into a reality.
“The pages and pages of Whatsapp messages between the two, planning and plotting to kill people, talking of murder, torture and cruelty were very difficult to read. The messages provided a terrifying insight into the minds of the two defendants.
“However, they also provided us with the detailed planning of the attack and then the attempts to cover it up. The Crown Prosecution Service authorised a charge of murder for both of the defendants.
“They were both equally responsible in planning the killing and carrying it out. In the trial, the defendants tried to blame each other to absolve themselves.
“The jury has clearly seen their explanations for the lies that they were. This has been a difficult prosecution not least because two very young people were on trial for the most serious offence known to criminal law.
“It has involved using a number of measures to ensure that the defendants could participate fully in the trial and enable them to give their evidence. The Crown Prosecution Service would like to thank the family of Brianna Ghey for the courage and dignity that they have shown throughout these proceedings.
“We hope today’s verdict brings some solace, and our thoughts and sympathies remain with them at this difficult time.”

 

[CoopsLoops]

Not racist at all. I was describing his facial features which is how he describes himself? If I was racist, surely I wouldn’t have been with him for 8 years????

But it’s not him saying these things about himself, it’s you. Saying it on a forum to strangers.

You said “he was quite Oriental looking”, which is ambiguous as to whether he was of East Asian origin and isn’t a particularly respectful way to refer to someone.

FYI, as you don’t seem to know, “Oriental” when used to describe people - and not rugs or vases - is widely considered derogatory and a racist term. Mainly because it has its roots in colonialism.