Brianna Ghey Murder Trial #3

[Lucyxxxx]

Oh I agree that public safety has to be paramount and that Venables, definitely should never have been released. But, as far as we know, Robert Thompson was successfully rehabilitated and hasn't reoffended. Many people can, with the right support be successful once they are released from prison.

The parole board definitely have a job on their hands, but they do really important work and I think they often get it right.

I think though, that parole can't stop you leaving jail at the end of their sentence so we will just have to wait and see how rehabilitated they are, I guess....

Fuck him and his rehabilitation.

 

[Ensay]

It’s not a case of deadnaming her or people knowing or not. The judge literally said this at the start of the trial. It’s factual and neither of her parents have had an issue with the facts about Brianna’s status or birth name being open.

Yeah, I've always understood 'deadnaming' to be when someone continually uses a trans person's former name despite knowing it's against that person's wishes.

A one-off referral to Brianna's birth name wouldn't fall into that category.

 

[Shinythings]

Here we go, lads. Let's pray for two guilty verdicts and justice for Brianna.

 

[CoopsLoops]

They probably would. They get too invested in cases like these and forget that it's real life and not some crappy ITV drama.

There does seem to be a gleefulness - or naivety? - on part of some people (not necessarily on here) to regard every aspect of X & Y as malevolent manipulation that’s so demonic it’s incredibly rare.

Obviously their plotting to kill and the horrific way they stabbed Brianna was demonic.

But X being thrown out of school for giving another student cannabis (to quote what a detective said) is really bloody commonplace with all types of secondary schools. It’s not unusual or the most horrifying behaviour that happens at school.

Teenagers meeting on a Saturday afternoon to do cocaine is also not totally uncommon.

Young defendants getting reasonable adjustments for ADHD and autism and their age is standard. There is a disproportionate number of people with ADHD and to a lesser extent autism in prison/juvenile detention centres.

Teenagers stabbing teenagers to death is also unfortunately a regular occurrence. Three other teenagers were stabbed to death by other teenagers during the week Brianna was killed.
Just yesterday or the day before, two 18- year olds were convicted of killing another teenager with a knife (machete) when they were 17.

A charity has done research and said that knife crime amongst teenagers has increased a lot since the pandemic.

However big the wish to regard X and Y as evil and psychotic and beyond comprehension, there are some societal issues at play that’s affected a lot of people. There are too many families who have lost their teenage child to knife crime. It’s just most of the cases don’t get 10% of the press and social media coverage that this one has.

 

[Loppylou89]

GUILTY

 

[MaryLou32]

I’m surprised at people not being happy with the reasonable adjustments made to the court process for X and Y.
Would you prefer them in the dock kicking off, being restrained taken down to the cells and being calmed down before being dragged back up and repeat …
Judge Yip was quite happy to make these adjustments and said it was in the courts best interests to get through it as easily and quickly as possible for all involved.

I couldn’t agree more. The thread being derailed a bit by people saying the reasonable adjustments were disrespectful to Briannas family, have become a bit boring.

We are all horrified by the violence perpetrated on Brianna. We all wanted to the see the correct verdict. We did. We feel sickened by what those teenagers have done and I dare say it was always going to be an open and shut case as the evidence was overwhelming, but regardless they are still entitled to a fair trial including any reasonable adjustments, which in the long run, not only ensure their full participation, make an already incredibly difficult few weeks on the families easier as the trial will run more smoothly.

It’s not difficult to understand. Any I don’t profess to understand or know much about autism and ADHD, but some people on here are massively ignorant to these conditions. Even if some people think they are playing up those conditions or trying to gain sympathy- it doesn’t matter, it’s important those allowances were made so no one could come back and say they weren’t treated fairly, leaving the verdict in balance.

 

[bluecups]

Part of me thinks Girl X will revel in the fact that she will go down in criminal justice history and that documentaries, podcasts etc will be made about her, just like the famous murderers she was obsessed with.

 

[LittleMy]

I want them to be named purely from a transparent and free society point of view. We shouldn’t have secret trials and secret justice being done. I wanted all of Letby’s victims named for the same reason.

I think that should be up to the parents of those babies. Nobody else.

 

[charleyth]

it’s really interesting that not many are seeing it as a hate crime as that’s how I personally see it - I’d never dream of making any of the comments the two defendants have made on trans people/Brianna and they do read as transphobic to me. just my two cents, but I’d be interested to hear why you guys don’t see it as a hate crime.

they’ve made comments yes but those comments were never the focus of their plan, Brianna’s gender wasn’t either. They had a list of others they wanted to kill, it wasn’t about gender or transphobia it was 2 sicko’s that wanted to kill someone’s regardless of who they identified as. It is not a hate crime. It’a an abhorrent murder of a child by 2 other children.

 

[Shinythings]

Out of interest is there anyone on this thread who would struggle to reach a decision if they were in the jury?

No, but there will always be one on a jury who will go the opposite of everyone else and be a complete pain and not understand the direction given. I hope in this case we won't have that and we'll have two guilty verdicts delivered swiftly.
---
God she's doing a fantastic job of saying 'he's hiding behind a diagnosis' without directly saying it. When she sums it all up like this, there's really clearly only one verdict.

 

[Tofino]

When did I say that comment was ok?

Read my comment again and you'll see that I don't think the murder was because she was trans, but the comments made about her would still be sickening for her loved ones to hear. I found them sickening, maybe you found others more so. That's your opinion. I have mine.

You said what you found ‘most sickening’ were the transphobic comments. I was asking you, out of everything you heard in the last four weeks, was it really the most sickening thing you took from the case?

Trans activists seem to ignore the worst parts of the case because it doesn’t fit their agenda. They just shout about ‘misgendering’ and genitals.

 

[hooplifehero]

He said a lot worse than that. Including, but not limited to, saying he would be interested to see if when they stabbed Brianna, “it screamed like a man or a girl”.

I kind of feel that compared to stabbing someone 28 times, this sort of distasteful remark from a teenage boy is less relevant. He said a lot of nasty and stupid things. They were talking about a child being a 'nonce' and another one being made to eat his own penis. If they'd killed the boy they were calling 'nonce', would we be saying that his prejudice against paedophilia was part of the motive? I think they were just being crude and unpleasant about people they considered part of their semi-joking, sinister joint plans, finding whatever aspect they could about a child to diminish and dehumanise them and to strip them of value. It is striking that there weren't any (other) girls on their list but don't you think if they'd chosen a girl to kill, they would have been sharing horrible ideas about what to do with her female body? Would that make it a misogynist hate crime?

I don't agree that transphobia was involved, because Girl X introduced Brianna to the conversation and enticed her to the murder location, and I don't think Girl X was 'transphobic' in the usual sense - she felt Brianna was possibly prettier than her, and was fascinated by Brianna and obsessed, but she respected pronouns and regarded Brianna as a girl.

And I don't think Boy Y stabbed Brianna because Brianna was trans. I think he did it because Girl X encouraged and supported him to do it, steadily over a period of time through their bizarre and twisted conversations, and probably at the location, in person, at the time of the killing.

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

I wouldn't struggle to reach a decision based on the judges directions. I would however struggle to make a decision if we had to be sure who had been the one to use the knife.

Guilty AF, both of them.

And I'm not sure if they will retire today as there is summing up etc but I'm sure by tomorrow they will have done. I am hoping for a quick return from the jury but we hoped that with the LL trial too and that didn't go as we had hoped!

 

[jammybee]

I’m surprised at people not being happy with the reasonable adjustments made to the court process for X and Y.
Would you prefer them in the dock kicking off, being restrained taken down to the cells and being calmed down before being dragged back up and repeat …
Judge Yip was quite happy to make these adjustments and said it was in the courts best interests to get through it as easily and quickly as possible for all involved.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Even though the boy and girl weren’t charged with a hate crime I do wonder if the boy would have attacked another victim if they weren’t trans, did Brianna being trans push him to commit the act? He’s made some awful transphobic comments and because of how severe the comments are I would say he’s definitely transphobic. I know there were other people on their list who weren’t transphobic but they never attacked them, Brianna was chosen and they decided to knife her several times.
I don’t know if I’m explaining myself properly so I apologise. I know that the crime isn’t being classed as a hate crime but I’m still wondering if the boy’s transphobic views played a part for him personally. Just speculating out loud here.

I think if one of the others on the list had agreed to meet the little psychopaths first, then it would have been them. Poor Brianna seems to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Shinythings]

But this also raises the question. If people are for X&Y not being named, how can it be fair Brianna was named? People are trawling through her socials for kicks. Everything about her life has been laid bare, every gory detail about how she died, her photos. I find it hard to balance that being OK but the people who took her life away to be granted the privacy she wasn't.

 

[Jasminexx02]

Difference is you haven’t murdered anyone. Yes obviously criminals still have rights but of course it’s still going to piss some people off to see them getting accommodations. Especially when not everyone is entirely convinced by the diagnoses (nothing wrong with that - they’re proven liars and manipulators) And yes I know that they were put in place for the sake of a smooth and fair trial etc etc

But you wouldn’t expect a physically disabled person to not be able to use a wheelchair, hearing aids etc. I don’t think that being a criminal, no matter how extreme, means that your disability shouldn’t be accommodated. You can’t just turn your autism off because you committed a crime. This isn’t just about them, but about neurodiversity as a whole and it just goes to show how much people don’t take neurodiverse people seriously. I feel the boy’s autism was fairly obvious and I don’t think anybody is in any sort of position to question a diagnosis given by a professional. He was still found guilty, it didn’t give him an unfair advantage, just gave him more of a level playing field for the sake of it being fair.

 

[GingerSnapped]

Cynical former teacher in me reads between the lines of that headteacher’s statement as “Disregarded uniform rules”, “answered back” - I think she had also had exclusions not long before the murder. Totally understand why the statement is worded how it is but it did raise a smile from me as anyone who has taught a kid who matches that description knows they’re usually a bloody nightmare to teach!

I hope the judge in this case has booked a long holiday somewhere beautiful after the cases she’s heard this year.

 

[gigilouxx]

Whether it seems fair or not, if he’s been diagnosed with something then reasonable adjustments have to be made. Its better for the kid to sit with a puzzler book than have a trial collapse cos things haven’t been taken into consideration properly

 

[americandirt16]

Justice Yip to make decision on reporting restrictions tomorrow!