Anti Conspiracy Theories #2 when a YouTube video just won’t do!

[Kim Mild]

I've got used to hiding behind my mask . I didn't realise how much I hated my teeth until people couldn't see them.
( that must make me a ' sheep' and I've been brainwashed. Nope I'd rather people didn't see my crooked teeth).

 

[MaineCoonMama]

Regarding the wearing of masks, restrictions have been lifted where I live for a good six weeks or so. I'm still wearing one when I'm at the shops and I've noticed a few others wearing them too. I'm immunosuppressed
and due for surgery in July so it makes sense to me. @Kim Mild I'm enjoying covering my double chin, haha!

 

[Meangirl815]

I dunno about anyone else but personally I would actually quite like it if, when the pandemic is over, mask wearing were to become more embedded in our culture the way it is in East Asia. I doubt it'll happen though, western culture is too individualist.

I hate my teeth.
So...I love masks
Mine will be staying for the immediate future

 

[mindlessness]

Also SD and masks help avoid other people's bad breath! (a pet hate of mine )

 

[Moth]

Apologies, and back to the script interesting though that you jumped on my comment like a fly on a jam sandwich though. Why be on the CT board and so irate though? Your viewpoint is in the majority. Most people are vaccinated, your viewpoint is the popular, "unselfish" and worthy one ...the world applauds you. I respect your right to vaccinate, wear a mask, fill your boots, it's not my business. Just a question though if I may? How long are you prepared to wear a mask? The next six months, year, two yeats, forever? How many boosters? Every six months, every year? How young is too young for masks and jabs? Babies, toddlers, pregnant women? Asked respectfully.

I hate wearing a mask but my answers to those questions are 'as long and as often as I need to' and 'as many people as is necessary and prudent'.

The question implies that we have a choice and I don't believe we do or at least not a reasonable one. There can be a debate about the extent of restrictions etc but I don't believe that my 'right' not to follow them trumps other people's rights not to be infected. I would have vaccine boosters if necessary for the same reason as I had the original one; because I don't want to get Covid-19 but also because I think I have a responsibility (not a word we hear often in this context) to society to help mitigate the effect of the virus.

Of course I also don't believe the myriad of conspiracy theories about Covid-19 that seek to convince us that it doesn't exist or is exaggerated, the vaccine is not worth the risks and that the restrictions are unnecessary impositions on our freedoms.

 

[Oohthedrama]

I’ve never seen a more bleeping childish lot of self appointed experts,
Make of that what you will everyone, not targeting any particular area of social media, but duck it’s exhausting

I saw that post and couldn't believe it. I hope they are staying indoors if that's their attitude but I know they wont be. I just bit my tongue. Another batshit post referred to people "catching covid". Yes because its all a hoax isn't it you nutters?

please always hit report if users on here cross a line

 

[hereforthedrama1]

I was watching a YT video last night (not that sort) of a lady called Siobhan (Violin MD) who works in a hospital in Canada. She explained they are currently facing a 3rd wave and that they have had to makeshift 2 new ICU wards in her hospital as there are more patients being admitted with Covid than ever before. These were all from 'variants' which spread more and have a more rapid effect. There were many younger patients. Towards the end she explained how 4 patients went 'bad' all at once and one of them may not survive, they had called the family in to say their goodbyes. How can you see something like that and believe it isn't real?? This lady has work 24-25 hour shifts throughout the pandemic, as have thousands and thousands of frontline workers. I've said before that my boyfriend works in a Secondary school in England. After the holidays, a large amount of students were off because of Covid. A year 8 was off and my boyfriend asked why, just out of curiosity really, and her MOTHER had taken her to an anti-mask protest in Manchester! We live in Nottinghamshire! And this was when you weren't meant to be travelling out of your area. Similar incident, a group of year 11's had a party. Who allowed that to happen? Who said 'yeah, sounds good'? We live in a somewhat deprived area, with low income and lots of people relying on top-up benefits to get by (thanks British government, must be why you got in again) and some students don't wear masks in school (they are supposed to) because their parents won't let them. CTs do really pray on 'poor' people to try and distract them from other things.
Recently I saw an article saying a 12 year old was taking her school to court over mask wearing. A 12 year old! I'm sure she didn't come up with that idea herself. The mask wearing in schools is down to government guidance, the schools in question have no say. But, as good old England is, they always try to blame anyone but the government, even turning on each other. I start work again in my pub next Monday and I'm TERRIFIED because it's full of Covid denying old men who loudly voice their opinions like any of these rules were our choice. This is a potentially 'loaded' question, but does anyone find that it is more the older generation who tend to believe every CT they read?

 

[MaineCoonMama]

I do find some of the older generation a bit funny when it comes to believing what they see on social media. My dad is an exception, years ago I was trying to tell him why I thought there was no moon landing- I've seen reason since- and he laughed his arse off and called me a head.

 

[Moolo]

I like to think that whatever end of the debate we are all on, we all have basic human decency, but anyone who posts a comment like the below is utterly disgusting. Who verbalises that kind of thought process when so many are bereaved?? No shame at all. To think I lost my lovely dad so young when people are spewing arrogant crap like that.

“I've never worn a mask or had the jab, so if I'm responsible for culling a few I apologise unreservedly”

I've not really looked at this thread before but was having a nose this morning, saw this and honestly felt a bit sick. I see the poster has come in and said it was a joke.

People seem to forget, or lack compassion when it's not happening to them. I often wonder if anyone would change their view if they saw how covid can affect a family / a person but I'm guessing not

As for masks - I hope they stay - even if it's just in hospitals etc - surely makes sense. I quite like wearing mine tbh!

 

[Moth]

I was watching a YT video last night (not that sort) of a lady called Siobhan (Violin MD) who works in a hospital in Canada. She explained they are currently facing a 3rd wave and that they have had to makeshift 2 new ICU wards in her hospital as there are more patients being admitted with Covid than ever before. These were all from 'variants' which spread more and have a more rapid effect. There were many younger patients. Towards the end she explained how 4 patients went 'bad' all at once and one of them may not survive, they had called the family in to say their goodbyes. How can you see something like that and believe it isn't real?? This lady has work 24-25 hour shifts throughout the pandemic, as have thousands and thousands of frontline workers. I've said before that my boyfriend works in a Secondary school in England. After the holidays, a large amount of students were off because of Covid. A year 8 was off and my boyfriend asked why, just out of curiosity really, and her MOTHER had taken her to an anti-mask protest in Manchester! We live in Nottinghamshire! And this was when you weren't meant to be travelling out of your area. Similar incident, a group of year 11's had a party. Who allowed that to happen? Who said 'yeah, sounds good'? We live in a somewhat deprived area, with low income and lots of people relying on top-up benefits to get by (thanks British government, must be why you got in again) and some students don't wear masks in school (they are supposed to) because their parents won't let them. CTs do really pray on 'poor' people to try and distract them from other things.
Recently I saw an article saying a 12 year old was taking her school to court over mask wearing. A 12 year old! I'm sure she didn't come up with that idea herself. The mask wearing in schools is down to government guidance, the schools in question have no say. But, as good old England is, they always try to blame anyone but the government, even turning on each other. I start work again in my pub next Monday and I'm TERRIFIED because it's full of Covid denying old men who loudly voice their opinions like any of these rules were our choice. This is a potentially 'loaded' question, but does anyone find that it is more the older generation who tend to believe every CT they read?

Well this member of the older generation doesn't believe any of them. In my experience CT-ers come from all sections of society.

The government has bowed to pressure to remove the requirement for masks to be worn in secondary schools. At a time when the Indian variant appears to be establishing a foothold in the UK that may not be the most sensible idea.

Secondary school pupils no longer advised to wear masks in class, Williamson confirms

Education secretary says lockdown easing measure will go ahead despite protests from unions and others

www.theguardian.com

 

[MaineCoonMama]

I guess I should add I might be considered kind of older. Early 50s, true Generation X. I still think of myself as about 30 though.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

What irks me the most is that they are not willing to believe (or they will question) most things reported online or TV (mainstream media), nor scientific journals (because they may not be peer reviewed yet. BUT will believe a post from a website no one has heard of, a video that has been put together by every Tom, Dick and Harry and they are happy to take this as truth. No questions asked.

 

[sdmilne]

Yes, it's almost as if they are a bit batshit.

 

[Moth]

What irks me the most is that they are not willing to believe (or they will question) most things reported online or TV (mainstream media), nor scientific journals (because they may not be peer reviewed yet. BUT will believe a post from a website no one has heard of, a video that has been put together by every Tom, Dick and Harry and they are happy to take this as truth. No questions asked.

I think most people believe that if you are going to make a claim that goes against the mainstream narrative, it should be demonstrably robust. The dedicated CT-er automatically believes that the mainstream narrative is a lie or has an ulterior motive. They will believe pretty much any claim that confirms this belief usually without doing any of the 'research' that they are so fond of telling others to do. Not that their understanding of 'research' is likely to help them:

 

[Moth]

I think most people believe that if you are going to make a claim that goes against the mainstream narrative, it should be demonstrably robust. The dedicated CT-er automatically believes that the mainstream narrative is a lie or has an ulterior motive. They will believe pretty much any claim that confirms this belief usually without doing any of the 'research' that they are so fond of telling others to do. Not that their understanding of 'research' is likely to help them:

View attachment 567572

Take for example one of the latest "bombshells" being promoted by conspiracy theorists...

57 Top Scientists And Doctors Release Shocking Study On COVID Vaccines And Demand Immediate Stop to ALL Vaccinations

A group of 57 leading scientists, doctors and policy experts has released a report calling in to question the safety and efficacy of the current COVID-19 vaccin

en-volve.com

Wow that sounds serious if it's coming from 57 'top' scientists and doctors (they always seem to be 'top'). So my reaction is to say well, who are these 'top' scientists, what credibility do they have, has their research been peer reviewed and published?

So I checked about ten of the named 'top scientists. Where I could find information they appear to be a mix of anti-mask, anti- lockdown, anti-vax, hydrocholoroquine promoters who have been previously called out for spreading misinformation about Covid-19. One of the 'top' scientists is 'Bartomeu Payeras Cifre', identified as a 'biologist' but is actually a painter with no record of scientific publications. He believes that Covid-19 is caused by 5G.

It's not clear whether the research has been peer reviewed and published yet. The link above is to a publication called 'En Volve' who say they were given a 'pre-print' of the manuscript and that readers should share it widely. En-Volve are a right wing, conservative publication which offers the following disclaimer : “The information presented on or through the Website is made available solely for general information and entertainment purposes. We do not warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of this information. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk. We disclaim all liability and responsibility arising from any reliance placed on such materials by you or any other visitor to the Website, or by anyone who may be informed of any of its contents.”

It will be interesting to see if the 'advance' manuscript is ever published and peer reviewed. Another of the 57 'top' scientists is Peter McCullough. He co-authored a previous article (coincidentally from a different 57 'top' scientists) that promoted use of hydrocloroquine in the treatment of Covid-19. It was published in the journal "Reviews In Cardiovascular Medicine" of which, no doubt entirely coincidentally, Peter McCullough is Editor-in-Chief. The peer reviewers are secret but it was done astonished quickly taking only 17 days from submission for review, corrections and acceptance. Baylor, White and Scott Medical Centre where McCullough works disavowed the contents of the article.

Does this really sound like 57 'top' scientists and doctors that you should trust?

 

[Oohthedrama]

Take for example one of the latest "bombshells" being promoted by conspiracy theorists...

57 Top Scientists And Doctors Release Shocking Study On COVID Vaccines And Demand Immediate Stop to ALL Vaccinations

A group of 57 leading scientists, doctors and policy experts has released a report calling in to question the safety and efficacy of the current COVID-19 vaccin

en-volve.com

Wow that sounds serious if it's coming from 57 'top' scientists and doctors (they always seem to be 'top'). So my reaction is to say well, who are these 'top' scientists, what credibility do they have, has their research been peer reviewed and published?

So I checked about ten of the named 'top scientists. Where I could find information they appear to be a mix of anti-mask, anti- lockdown, anti-vax, hydrocholoroquine promoters who have been previously called out for spreading misinformation about Covid-19. One of the 'top' scientists is 'Bartomeu Payeras Cifre', identified as a 'biologist' but is actually a painter with no record of scientific publications. He believes that Covid-19 is caused by 5G.

It's not clear whether the research has been peer reviewed and published yet. The link above is to a publication called 'En Volve' who say they were given a 'pre-print' of the manuscript and that readers should share it widely. En-Volve are a right wing, conservative publication which offers the following disclaimer : “The information presented on or through the Website is made available solely for general information and entertainment purposes. We do not warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of this information. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk. We disclaim all liability and responsibility arising from any reliance placed on such materials by you or any other visitor to the Website, or by anyone who may be informed of any of its contents.”

It will be interesting to see if the 'advance' manuscript is ever published and peer reviewed. Another of the 57 'top' scientists is Peter McCullough. He co-authored a previous article (coincidentally from a different 57 'top' scientists) that promoted use of hydrocloroquine in the treatment of Covid-19. It was published in the journal "Reviews In Cardiovascular Medicine" of which, no doubt entirely coincidentally, Peter McCullough is Editor-in-Chief. The peer reviewers are secret but it was done astonished quickly taking only 17 days from submission for review, corrections and acceptance. Baylor, White and Scott Medical Centre where McCullough works disavowed the contents of the article.

Does this really sound like 57 'top' scientists and doctors that you should trust?

main stream media for sure get their orders from the government, especially when it comes to covid,
but I’m more concerned about these crazy sites that post bare faced lies, (that vulnerable people fall for) in an attempt to create anarchy and to encourage the public to revolt.
especially when CT’ers follow and believe no matter what the truth is. It’s just taken as fact.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

I think most people believe that if you are going to make a claim that goes against the mainstream narrative, it should be demonstrably robust. The dedicated CT-er automatically believes that the mainstream narrative is a lie or has an ulterior motive. They will believe pretty much any claim that confirms this belief usually without doing any of the 'research' that they are so fond of telling others to do. Not that their understanding of 'research' is likely to help them:

View attachment 567572

Likewise anything that they view or read (that is not mainstream) is also a narrative which they choose to believe without questioning and looking further into.

Take for example the documentary ‘Plandemic - The Hidden Agenda Behind Covid-19’ which promotes misinformation against the vaccine and has occuring themes around loss of free speech/choice. When you unravel it bit by bit you will see that it is full of false and misleading statements.

 

[Moth]

main stream media for sure get their orders from the government, especially when it comes to covid,
but I’m more concerned about these crazy sites that post bare faced lies, (that vulnerable people fall for) in an attempt to create anarchy and to encourage the public to revolt.
especially when CT’ers follow and believe no matter what the truth is. It’s just taken as fact.

I don't think that 'get their orders' is exactly the right phrase. In general I agree that the mainstream media in the UK tends to be supportive of the Tory governments in all things. However, some of the more obvious suspects (The Mail, Telegraph etc) have been critical of the government lockdown policies and less supportive media has questioned how the government has handled the pandemic overall and advanced calls for a public enquiry. Some of the mainstream media has reported on conspiracy theories but the fact that they have not supported them says more about the conspiracists than it does the stance of the media. It's different in America of course where media giants like Fox are consistently spreading conspiracy theories.

However, like you I am more concerned with the impact that conspiracy theories and other 'fringe' beliefs (e.g. sovereign citizens) have on people that are influenced by them and on people that are simply collateral damage. On Tattle that currently mainly takes the form of anti-vax and Covid-denying propaganda and I will continue to try to counter that (mainly in this thread).

Likewise anything that they view or read (that is not mainstream) is also a narrative which they choose to believe without questioning and looking further into.

Take for example the documentary ‘Plandemic - The Hidden Agenda Behind Covid-19’ which promotes misinformation against the vaccine and has occuring themes around loss of free speech/choice. When you unravel it bit by bit you will see that it is full of false and misleading statements.

You're right. The Plandemic 'documentary" has been debunked on numerous occasions but still circulates (even on Tattle!). An early critique can be found here:

How the 'Plandemic' conspiracy theory took hold

In just a few days, the bogus Covid-19 claims of a discredited research scientist spread to millions via YouTube, Facebook and other video-sharing sites

www.theguardian.com

and here:

Debunking the most dangerous claims of 'Plandemic'

'Documentary' broke out of conspiracy circles to spread misinformation about COVID-19.

www.livescience.com

I also thought this more recent article on 'fringe science' and which touches on Plandemic was interesting and echoes what I previously wrote about the Conspiracy Theorists frequent use of the phrase 'top scientists' as an appeal to authority

COVID Has Created a Perfect Storm for Fringe Science

It’s always been with us, but in a time of pandemic, its practitioners have an amplified capacity to unleash serious harm

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[What?]

I've not really looked at this thread before but was having a nose this morning, saw this and honestly felt a bit sick. I see the poster has come in and said it was a joke.

People seem to forget, or lack compassion when it's not happening to them. I often wonder if anyone would change their view if they saw how covid can affect a family / a person but I'm guessing not

As for masks - I hope they stay - even if it's just in hospitals etc - surely makes sense. I quite like wearing mine tbh!

I have to strongly disagree with you regarding the masks.

Some of you will have seen some of my posts in the CT thread and will therefore know I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I am an NHS worker who is being forced to wear a mask for hours on end while trying to do my job.
This has led to low morale amongst staff, skin problems, teeth and gum problems, throat problems and every night a lot of us feel sick as a dog because of the masks.
I keep hearing the argument "well surgeons have always worn a mask for long periods of time while doing surgery" and yes they have...in a lovely air conditioned theatre while standing still to concentrate.
However most of us NHS workers work in old hot and humid hospitals doing very physical work which is a very different experience altogether.
The mask wearing has now become so bad I will be handing in my notice if there is no end in sight to it soon as I can't continue suffering like this day in and day out at work.

I also hate the idea of children growing up only seeing half a face of people who are out and about.

It is time to get rid of the bloody things in my opinion.

 

[Moth]

One of the common strategies of Covid ‘misinformationists’ is to attack the function and accuracy of the PCR test. The reasoning is obvious; if the test doesn’t work or is inaccurate then Covid doesn’t exist or is exaggerated and therefore no need for restrictions or vaccines.

The science around Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test is very complex and I admit that I don’t fully understand it even if the misinformationists won’t. This really is an area best left to the experts of which you can find many actual test practitioners online who rubbish the misleading claims about the test. Nevertheless I will try to explain my basic understand of the test.

The PCR test was invented in 1985 by Kary B Mullis. Its purpose is to determine if the genetic material (RNA) of a virus is present in a sample. The sample is treated to strip out unwanted materials e.g. proteins and fats to leave only the genetic material of the person tested and if present, the virus. The sample is then treated to add a ‘marker’ which detects specific parts of the virus DNA. The marker needs to find a sufficiently large amount of the target viral DNA to produce a verifiable indicator. The sample is treated and placed in machine called a Thermocycler which heats and cools the sample and causes it to create new, identical copies of the target sections of the viral DNA. Each heating a cooling is known as a ‘cycle’. Each ‘cycle’ doubles the amount of target DNA. The markers attach to the DNA strands and release a fluorescent dye which is picked up by the machine. When a certain level is reached it confirms the presence of the virus in the sample. The amount of viral material in the sample is an indication of the severity of the infection. So as I hope is obvious, if there is a lot of viral genetic material in the sample to start with, it will only take a few cycles to produce enough for the markers to identify it. Conversely it might take a lot of cycles to identify a small amount of original virus.

Some of the misinformation about the PCR test:

Kary Mullis, the inventor of the PCR test said they don’t work for picking up infectious diseases. - He never said this.

The WHO say the PCR test is 97% inaccurate and is “futile” - The WHO didn’t say this. The quote is from an Irish doctor named Vincent Carroll and was thoroughly debunked:
https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck...SpNVmYEmT5tag_38BzqZivpuCpz8qwVLSUH5D2VWdFB_Q

The WHO admitted that the PCR test is flawed and that any test involving 35 or more ‘cycles’ is invalid. I’ve recently seen this same claim on the Conspiracy Theory thread but now it’s down to 28 cycles. - The WHO didn’t say this. They issued guidance on how to interpret results with a high number of cycles.

The test doesn’t specifically identify SARS-Cov2 and will give a positive result if you have a cold or are stressed - This is untrue. The test is designed to look for sections of DNA specific to the SARS-Cov2 virus so having a cold or any other virus won’t make a blind bit of difference.

The PCR test is not accurate - It is possible to get ‘false positives’ (i.e that you have the virus when you don’t) and ‘false negatives’ (i.e that you don’t have the virus when you do). Unfortunately for the misinformationists false negatives are much more common. But they are right the PCR test is not 100% accurate.

As we know anything that is not 100% accurate is all the dedicated misinformationist needs to conclude that it is a lie, an exaggeration or worthless so while I can't be 100% sure that anything a misinformationist says about PCR testing is wrong, evidence to date is that there is a high probability that it is.