Ah that makes a bit more sense. Although I'm sure his video is his usual rambling.
That megamix video doesn't make me want to trek to Wembley. Looks cheap and cringe tbh.
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That megamix video doesn't make me want to trek to Wembley. Looks cheap and cringe tbh.
Did anyone see the TikTok video from Aaron Cahill this week where a show was cancelled for the actor “refusing to go on stage” (actually sounds like they might have had voice issues) and the producer called out the actor to the audience onstage? Small show by the looks, only two weeks and no covers. Interesting argument brewing it seems.
Perhaps the female Greaseball is so the hip thrusting etc is more " socially acceptable" for modern sensibilities, than a male doing it. She can probably hamm it up far more with it cast in this way.
I think it's real shame it's a Mama and not a Papa though, there are not many roles for older black males as it is and if the change was the other way around, I think they'd be outrage about it.
I'm a bit miffed to have spent £200+ on those front seats which were meant to be moving, to see they're stationary standard seating! Massively upsold there. I wonder if I have a leg (a skate?!) to stand on with a complaint?
I think it's real shame it's a Mama and not a Papa though, there are not many roles for older black males as it is and if the change was the other way around, I think they'd be outrage about it.
I'm a bit miffed to have spent £200+ on those front seats which were meant to be moving, to see they're stationary standard seating! Massively upsold there. I wonder if I have a leg (a skate?!) to stand on with a complaint?
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I loved Starlight Express back in the 80’s and have also seen several touring productions over the years. I was so excited when I heard of its revival, but having read a few articles I very much doubt I’ll go and see it. Greaseball a female?! To me he was very much an Elvis type character that the lady coaches swooned over. How’s that going to work? And changing Poppa to Momma - why? The deep gravelly voice of Poppa was just perfect. I also wonder about the leads being fresh out of drama school - will they have the stamina and energy to cope with so many shows? I also heard they’ve got rid of Ashley the smoking car
. Political correctness and wokery gone too far. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
I believe the change to Ashley thr Smoking Car was due to the smoking ban being brought in for the UK.I loved Starlight Express back in the 80’s and have also seen several touring productions over the years. I was so excited when I heard of its revival, but having read a few articles I very much doubt I’ll go and see it. Greaseball a female?! To me he was very much an Elvis type character that the lady coaches swooned over. How’s that going to work? And changing Poppa to Momma - why? The deep gravelly voice of Poppa was just perfect. I also wonder about the leads being fresh out of drama school - will they have the stamina and energy to cope with so many shows? I also heard they’ve got rid of Ashley the smoking car
And if I remember correctly, they had managed to get Reva Rice to sign on to do the Bochum shows hence the change from Poppa to Momma.
I did watch some of Mickey Jo Theatre's blog, I don't mind the gender changes (I didn't see the show in the 80s because I'm too young but did manage to see the show before it closed on the west end the first time). If a simple gender change offends y'all and if Mickey Jo Theatre is correct in the other character changes he's mention then maybe the revival of the show isn't something you wish to go and see.
A gender change doesn’t offend me, but I’d just like to know the reason for it. The show was so amazing when I saw it that I can’t see the need. Maybe I’m just an old fossil
The gender changes they made to Company in the West End a few years ago made it a much better show in my opinion, it really worked.
I think we hear "they changed the genders" and assume it's been done simply for modern day woke reasons for the sake of it or out of fear of offence, because we're sick of changes in every day life that don't seem thought through or with decent reason. But when it's done in theatre because that's the director's vision for a particular production, and even better if the composer is on board as Sondheim was for Company, I'm all for reimagining things and presenting a different way to see a show.
I haven't booked any tickets for Starlight Express yet "because Wembley" (can't be arsed with the trek tbh! Even Southwark and the Bridge Theatre have to try really hard to get me over to them
) but once the reviews (*) are in and the buzz starts properly I'll probably go and check it out.
(*) proper reviews and buzz, not Mickey Jo Twattery.
I think we hear "they changed the genders" and assume it's been done simply for modern day woke reasons for the sake of it or out of fear of offence, because we're sick of changes in every day life that don't seem thought through or with decent reason. But when it's done in theatre because that's the director's vision for a particular production, and even better if the composer is on board as Sondheim was for Company, I'm all for reimagining things and presenting a different way to see a show.
I haven't booked any tickets for Starlight Express yet "because Wembley" (can't be arsed with the trek tbh! Even Southwark and the Bridge Theatre have to try really hard to get me over to them
) but once the reviews (*) are in and the buzz starts properly I'll probably go and check it out.(*) proper reviews and buzz, not Mickey Jo Twattery.
Company explained their reasons, and it made sense in terms of plot, character and society.
. As far as I can tell no one has said why they have changed it in starlight express, what's the deeper meaning (does starlight have deeper meaning
) so it just comes off like a board meeting and someone suggested it for diversity sakes and seems shallow.
It's the same with the childcatcher in the current chitty tour. Now a female role, but doesn't seem to add anything and from most reports, the character has less impact. Now that could be down to the actress of course. But changes without thought and reason can just lead to 2d characters without presence
. As far as I can tell no one has said why they have changed it in starlight express, what's the deeper meaning (does starlight have deeper meaning
) so it just comes off like a board meeting and someone suggested it for diversity sakes and seems shallow.It's the same with the childcatcher in the current chitty tour. Now a female role, but doesn't seem to add anything and from most reports, the character has less impact. Now that could be down to the actress of course. But changes without thought and reason can just lead to 2d characters without presence
Thought Ashley hadn't been around for a long time because smoking cars are no longer common on trains, we've had various replacements since then including a sleeping car, luggage car, and this production has a quiet coach
I read in the Starlight fan group that they've changed the national trains to colours now too. I get the previous racial stereotypes perhaps being problematic for modern audiences but it seems so much has been diluted.
To me it makes more sense for Electra to be any gender over Greaseball, but I'll reserve full judgement until I've seen it for myself in a few weeks.
Theatreboards have a few posts about the races being slow and not as impactful compared to previous productions - health and safety gone mad huh!?
I just hope the "B.A.S.T.A.R.D" in Uncoupled has survived!
To me it makes more sense for Electra to be any gender over Greaseball, but I'll reserve full judgement until I've seen it for myself in a few weeks.
Theatreboards have a few posts about the races being slow and not as impactful compared to previous productions - health and safety gone mad huh!?
I just hope the "B.A.S.T.A.R.D" in Uncoupled has survived!
It looks atrociously bad to me. Worse than a sixth form college project. What have they done to the costumes? Why do they look more like space worms than trains?
I knew it was going to be a "new" production, so I've kept an open mind as much as possible. But when you compare the clips doing the rounds on Youtube and TikTok to the productions of the 1990s and 1980s, oh how the mighty have fallen. What an absolute shame. Because even on a budget in a smaller theatre you can do better than that but someone wanted this to be the next Six and so we've got... this.
I am so grateful I saw the show at the Apollo Victoria in the early 00s before it closed. I will never forget it, it was utterly mesmerising. Also tickets were affordable and I had the best seats both times. I feel for people not getting to experience theatre like that.
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I did wonder, it seems impossible otherwise.
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To a point I've got no issue with older shows updating their books/lyrics when it would be jarring for the older content to still be there.
Poppa becoming Mama is the change that pissed me off most of all. Just shameless box ticking and no more than that. Poppa was such a beautifully rich role for a black male actor/singer and as someone said those are still quite rare in theatre. I also just personally would not be as moved by the songs with them sung in a female voice, it is the worst kind of change for change's sake and virtue points incident.
In all, I've found Starllight Express a let down for many years. Even the Bochum production has been ruined with things like the above, terrible costume changes and constant tinkering with lyrics and characters.
Update stuff when it makes sense, sure, but I weep at what's happened to Starlight since the 2010s or so.
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Not "offended" in the least. I just think the Poppa to Mama thing specifically is utterly pointless and takes something away from those songs and the mentor/student relationship between Poppa and Rusty. Just my personal opinion. But it's laughable to suggest someone is "offended" because they don't like a thing or wonder how it will work.
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(I really hate the way this forum handles someone adding new comments to the threads - I'd hate to think people "like" a post I make because they initially agree, then their "like" is still there when I've added to it and they might no longer agree... Tattle is the only forum I've seen that handles people posting multipile times in one thread this way, it's awful)
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(I really hate the way this forum handles someone adding new comments to the threads - I'd hate to think people "like" a post I make because they initially agree, then their "like" is still there when I've added to it and they might no longer agree... Tattle is the only forum I've seen that handles people posting multipile times in one thread this way, it's awful)
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Ok I’m just back from seeing the second preview of Starlight. Saw the original in the 80s and the Bochum production last year and was approaching this with some trepidation due to the way in which it’s already been changed (such as the Poppa/Momma thing already discussed) but I’m relieved to say I enjoyed it a lot more than I was expecting and I am pleased that they haven’t ruined it even more. I had a £98 seat in the “Platform” area which was inside the race tracks, I am glad I didn’t have a non-rotating seat in the even more expensive bit as I don’t think it would be worth the money, and will probably go again and see it from a cheap seat at some point. I’d agree that the racing seemed a bit tame compared to Bochum but I guess it’s inevitable with a newer cast, one of the engines (Hydra) stood out as a more capable skater and I found out afterwards he’s already been in the German production so I think with time the skating might get a bit slicker. Considering it’s a very inexperienced cast with many making their professional debuts, it was definitely not the borderline amateur-feeling production that some have labelled it as. There were a couple of missed cues and some looked a little unsure of their places on stage but that’s to be expected for an early preview. A few initial thoughts on some of the changes below (contains spoilers).
The role of the child playing Control who was just a voice in other productions has been promoted to a full character who is present on stage for much of the show. Actually worked really well and reinforced the premise that the show is taking place in a child’s imagination.
Greaseball is played by a female which I don’t think was necessary and doesn’t really work. No disrespect to the person playing her who did a good enough job technically but the character doesn’t have the same impact. Also having to call her a B A S T A R D during “Uncoupled” feels wrong as it’s generally not a term directed at women (I guess they couldn’t find a way to change it to B I T C H).
The engines and carriages have less-individualised costumes and hence identities compared to the original and Bochum.
Electra is officially non-binary and repeatedly referred to as they/them, absolutely no problem with this as fits the character, they’ve also managed to make their costume even camper with some funky inflatable bits which I appreciated.
“He’ll Whistle At Me” is still in but has been changed to lecture on the inappropriateness in todays society of whistling at women, sort of funny actually and lots of eye rolling from all of us who saw the original version.
Greaseball is played by a female which I don’t think was necessary and doesn’t really work. No disrespect to the person playing her who did a good enough job technically but the character doesn’t have the same impact. Also having to call her a B A S T A R D during “Uncoupled” feels wrong as it’s generally not a term directed at women (I guess they couldn’t find a way to change it to B I T C H).
The engines and carriages have less-individualised costumes and hence identities compared to the original and Bochum.
Electra is officially non-binary and repeatedly referred to as they/them, absolutely no problem with this as fits the character, they’ve also managed to make their costume even camper with some funky inflatable bits which I appreciated.
“He’ll Whistle At Me” is still in but has been changed to lecture on the inappropriateness in todays society of whistling at women, sort of funny actually and lots of eye rolling from all of us who saw the original version.
Thank you for your review! Relieved to hear you enjoyed the production ...not so relieved to hear the pricey seats aren't worth it. I would ask for tickets every birthday as a child as I was obsessed with it, so when it was announced I went all in getting the best possible seats. Regret that decision now though as it was so expensive.
Perhaps I'm in the minority as a slightly older fogie compared to younger audience's sensitivities but I don't like too many changes for changes sake, especially when the reasoning behind them is political correctness. I think the majority of paying audiences are far hardier than we're given credit for and acknowledge it's not real life if Greaseball is being a misogynistic jerk or a train(!) is whistling at another....
Even having Control on stage throughout to literally show us its a child's dream seems quite dumbed down and perhaps a bit of an insult to the audiences intelligence. I "got it" as an 8 year old, so I think people would have understood with this production too.
Would rather a new musical be created than an original being tampered with so much it is almost beyond recognition.
(I feel the same about the new production of Les Mis and them getting rid of the iconic revolve too but I'll save that rant for another day)
Perhaps I'm in the minority as a slightly older fogie compared to younger audience's sensitivities but I don't like too many changes for changes sake, especially when the reasoning behind them is political correctness. I think the majority of paying audiences are far hardier than we're given credit for and acknowledge it's not real life if Greaseball is being a misogynistic jerk or a train(!) is whistling at another....
Even having Control on stage throughout to literally show us its a child's dream seems quite dumbed down and perhaps a bit of an insult to the audiences intelligence. I "got it" as an 8 year old, so I think people would have understood with this production too.
Would rather a new musical be created than an original being tampered with so much it is almost beyond recognition.
(I feel the same about the new production of Les Mis and them getting rid of the iconic revolve too but I'll save that rant for another day
)
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I can live without the revolve in les mis, but getting rid of the dates/location projections is crazy to me. It's a complex story already, and shoehorned into 3 hours. Those projections really helped with setting scene and time passing.
Also the barricade deaths are far less impactful now
Back to starlight, misogyny exists and probably always will. Show it, but let there be consequences. That's how people learn. Pretending it doesn't exist just buries the problem
Also the barricade deaths are far less impactful now
Back to starlight, misogyny exists and probably always will. Show it, but let there be consequences. That's how people learn. Pretending it doesn't exist just buries the problem
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I was watching clips of Starlight from the 1990s on Youtube and even with the poor video quality, the beauty of the costumes and the incredible energy of the cast really took my breath away even at my old age and becoming more jaded than the starry-eyed, easily impressed teen I was when I saw it in person back when at the Apollo.
God, I would sell my soul for a proshot of both the og 80s production and the 90s update. Absolute peak of bombastic, big budget, riduculousness. I miss those days so much.
God, I would sell my soul for a proshot of both the og 80s production and the 90s update. Absolute peak of bombastic, big budget, riduculousness. I miss those days so much.
After the dirty rotten scoundrel performance and now this, I'm starting to go off Ramin. Starting to see the limits of his acting when not phantom/valjean
So thanks to some very pushy fans, the Starlight Express thread on theatreboard is now basically a rave thread. Anyone who doesn't like it is wrong or their posts are ignored by the clique of fans who won't have it that there could possibly be valid criticisms to be had on the 2024 London version. One called ceebee is being especially obnoxious to the point where if ALW got a literal turd, painted it and called it Starlight Express he/she/they would probably be all over it with praise.
Obviously people are entitled to fan as much as they want but that level of pants wetting hysteria style fandom is gross to me.
I find theatreboard too happy clappy anyway, as a rule. I'm glad Tattle allows us grumps to have somewhere where having a moan isn't stigmatised or automatically accused of being mean.
Obviously people are entitled to fan as much as they want but that level of pants wetting hysteria style fandom is gross to me.
I find theatreboard too happy clappy anyway, as a rule. I'm glad Tattle allows us grumps to have somewhere where having a moan isn't stigmatised or automatically accused of being mean.
Theatreboard is like that unfortunately, if you don't like the 'in fashion" show then you're in the wrong and an idiot. Ceebee is known for that, they obsessively defended For One Day
It's basically at the level now where critical analysis of a show is frowned upon because it could hurt the feelings of people who worked hard on it - the type of comment I see on Youtube all the time if anyone dare express something other than blind praise.
Your reply makes me happy re: ceebee, I wondered if it was just me.
Don’t shows/performers fall out of vogue just as quickly though? At one point they barely tolerated any criticism of Carrie but now people say what they like about her