Ukraine Russia War #6

[Autisteuse]

This is how I feel. I know the devastation it would cause but it feels so wrong just leaving them to after they contuine to ask us for help i don't think putin will stop after Ukraine either

Oh, he won't. He's trying to recreate the old Russian Empire. Just as the roots of the Syrian conflict stem from the Ottoman Empire, Putain's zeal harks back to the days of Peter the Great. He's been playing a very long game, and the West has been appeasing him, denigrating NATO etc - to everyone's detriment.

So Russia are mad because Ukraine might join NATO in future. Representative from China speaking on BBC news right now thinks that is the key issue. I wish Ukraine would say Ok we promise not to join NATO just to get a ceasefire in place and do whatever it wants in future. I'm sure that would start war back up again but at least Ukraine/NATO could prepare a bit more.

That won't stop Vlad. I predict that he'll invade Moldova next. The parallels with 1936-9 and the present are undeniable. The League of Nations waffled about non-agression pacts and policies, allowed Hitler to walk all over the Sudetenland and annexe Austria without a whimper, and look what happened next.

Cannot find it but a military analyst said this morning that one solution is for Ukraine to concede a small area of land that Russia wants on their joint border - that way Russia will not lose face and UKR will keep the majority of its land - unsure how much land would need to be given over but at this point in time I would go for that and let everything go back to, an uneasy, cease fire Not ideal I know but it could stop it quickly and I am no expert but could it be this simple in order to resolve without any more deaths

Why should they give up an inch of their territory to a creature who wants to obliterate them from the face of the earth?

 

[L.S]

I keep checking the IG accounts of the members of Jinjer. Tatiana the singer appears to be safe overseas, but the bassist, guitarist and drummer were apparently still in Kyiv when they last posted.

Nice to see VW and Skoda are halting operations. Just need BMW, Audi and Mercedes to do the same, I gather they're quite popular in Russia.

I think they are still there I keep checking too

 

[Yel]

Have any properties anywhere in Europe been seized aka taken into state ownership?

The headlines the other day about the guy having his lake Como properties seized it looks more like he can't access them than them actually being seized?

 

[curiousbeaver]

I actually think this is an argument to accelerate the green stuff. If you want sanctions to bite and bite quickly then stop buying Russian gas and oil and move away from dependency as quickly as possible.

Yes hopefully. I think we all want to see green energy and nobody wants to destroy the planet, but the reality is that in the short to medium term we still have a high dependence on hydrocarbons. I just hope that the profits from any newly locally sourced HCs are ploughed into more green technology and energy infrastructure to enable its widespread use.

 

[Pinotsgoats]

Have any properties anywhere in Europe been seized aka taken into new ownership?

The headlines the other day about the guy having his lake Como properties seized it looks more like he can't access them than them actually being seized?

Part of the issue is that lots of these assets are held in holding companies, blind trusts, other money laundering schemes (Britain and Ireland both provide expert advice on how to do that, there's a reason ROI was called the Wild West of International Finance) and proving ownership is incredibly difficult. A yacht is a nice big symbol of Russian wealth, so easy to seize, good for local propaganda, and you can flog it off. A Task Force has been announced involving us, the USA and others, to look into the assets of foreign oligarchs but it'll be a long process https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ent-on-further-restrictive-economic-measures/

NBC has an article about US laws which give them quite a bit of leeway (if you've ever seen The Shield then they had a story arc about civil forfeiture laws). https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...n-oligarchs-yachts-homes-jets-legal-rcna18278

TL/DR: Easier said than done to prove who actually owns what.

 

[sega1985]

So they want Crimea to be recognised as part of Russia. Surely if they stole it in 2014 it already is? I don’t get how something they took (I assume in similar circumstances) is not already recognised as part of Russia it must be recognised as something. And they want those other two regions, fine rake them. But how can they demonstrate ‘de nazification’ to their satisfaction? When they aren’t nazis, so much confusion!

 

[smirkingrevenge]

So they want Crimea to be recognised as part of Russia. Surely if they stole it in 2014 it already is? I don’t get how something they took (I assume in similar circumstances) is not already recognised as part of Russia it must be recognised as something. And they want those other two regions, fine rake them. But how can they demonstrate ‘de nazification’ to their satisfaction? When they aren’t nazis, so much confusion!

You do realise these are all kist half arsed excuses?
Putin wants to rebuild USSR. He also wants Nato’s borders to be restored to where they were on the late 90s…

 

[veevee04]

Kerry couple bring baby Luke home from Ukraine

'We are incredibly lucky. I know there are other parents that are still there, we're really feeling for them'

www.irishexaminer.com

I don't know if anyone has posted this but this story has made me sick. A surrogate baby being taken back to Ireland look at the ages of the intended parents they look about 55!!! They don't mention once concern for the surrogate mother's welfare or her family. They literally used her as a brood mare then discarded her disgusting entitled people. I hope baby Luke will find out about what they did to his surrogate mother.

 

[Feck]

Here is a good story coming out: a young soldier has surrendered and they give him a phone to call his mum.

Russian soldier 'breaks down in tears as he surrenders'

Footage shows a young surrendered soldier from Putin's forces breaking down in tears as he speaks to his mother on the phone after being comforted and fed by Ukrainian women.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Is anyone able to translate what the young lady says to the mum on the phone?

Sorry if this has already been answered, I'm about a day behind. I believe she says that he is safe and well and she will be getting a call from him later. Heartbreaking. These poor young men have been sent out with nothing. No knowledge, out-of-date rations or no supplies at all. Believing they were on training and/or fact finding missions. It's all really hard to watch.

 

[Autisteuse]

Bernie Ecclestone launches defence of 'honourable' Vladimir Putin

Bernie Ecclestone and Vladimir Putin have been friends for many years, with their relationship key to the introduction of the Russian Grand Prix within Formula 1.

www.mirror.co.uk

Sorry if this has been posted already. Has there been any comment from F1 drivers/pundits

Quel surprise - that poisonous creature cares nothing for honour and integrity, only money and sycophants. We are really getting an indication of so-called 'stars' and people in the public eye's characters, aren't we?

There are people on my Facebook changing their profile pictures to Abramovich. FFS

Have you asked them why, or can you not bear to?!

 

[Yel]

Part of the issue is that lots of these assets are held in holding companies, blind trusts, other money laundering schemes (Britain and Ireland both provide expert advice on how to do that, there's a reason ROI was called the Wild West of International Finance) and proving ownership is incredibly difficult. A yacht is a nice big symbol of Russian wealth, so easy to seize, good for local propaganda, and you can flog it off. A Task Force has been announced involving us, the USA and others, to look into the assets of foreign oligarchs but it'll be a long process https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ent-on-further-restrictive-economic-measures/

NBC has an article about US laws which give them quite a bit of leeway (if you've ever seen The Shield then they had a story arc about civil forfeiture laws). https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...n-oligarchs-yachts-homes-jets-legal-rcna18278

TL/DR: Easier said than done to prove who actually owns what.

This exactly. I expect lots of the illiquid assets have been transferred to ownership that makes it very difficult for a modern stable country to seize as quickly as it does to make a meme.

The time for taking action would have been decades ago when the dirty money is flowing in. Not easy to fix this overnight

 

[July9696]

It’s so amazing to see the welcome the Ukrainians have been getting in neighbouring countries. As they got off the trains, there are pushchairs, SIM cards, other essentials and transport available. Sky news have said places like Romania have set up Ukrainian schools specifically for the children too. Must be such a logistical nightmare though!

 

[Yel]

Abramovich has a lot of supporters. He offered the empty rooms that couldnt be sold in his hotel to the NHS and gave to X charity so he must be a good guy

 

[Pinotsgoats]

This exactly. I expect lots of the illiquid assets have been transferred to ownership that makes it very difficult for a modern stable country to seize as quickly as it does to make a meme.

The time for taking action would have been decades ago when the dirty money is flowing in. Not easy to fix this overnight

I think the other big challenge is when the West realise that they are going to have to take a long hard look at the actions of Russia and China in Africa. An awful lot of money and influence being exerted there.

 

[Mark81]

Abramovich has a lot of supporters. He offered the empty rooms that couldnt be sold in his hotel to the NHS and gave to X charity so he must be a good guy

Never trust 'good' or 'nice' guys

 

[howaboutnot]

Cannot find it but a military analyst said this morning that one solution is for Ukraine to concede a small area of land that Russia wants on their joint border - that way Russia will not lose face and UKR will keep the majority of its land - unsure how much land would need to be given over but at this point in time I would go for that and let everything go back to, an uneasy, cease fire Not ideal I know but it could stop it quickly and I am no expert but could it be this simple in order to resolve without any more deaths

This is what's been going on since 2014. First being made to give up Crimea, then Donetsk and Luhansk. It's a dangerous game to play if Ukraine wants to remain a free country. Strategically they could agree that everything East of the Dneiper belongs to Russia*/ "people's republics" but at some point Russia would want to push across the Dneiper. If Ukraine cedes land then it will be left smaller, weaker, and more vulnerable. At the minute, the world's eyes are on them, and public sympathy's at an all-time high. There's no guarantee that they'll get this amount of media coverage or sympathy next time around. Giving up land also leaves Ukrainians thinking "when's the next invasion coming, and how much land will they want this time?" It would have a knock-on effect on the nation's psyche (among other things).

* [this is using old geopolitical ways of dividing up land: a river's a pretty neat boundary line and can make for a good line of defense. I do not agree that Ukraine should cede this to Russia. IMO if Ukraine wants to stand up for their land then I'm going to be donating, sending parcels via Polish friends going to the Polish-Ukrainian border, doing what I can for refugees, and speaking up for a free Ukraine.]

 

[Sunlifeover50]

It makes you wonder what will happen if they do take over the Ukraine. What have they actually ended up with? A country that isn’t internationally recognised by many, a population that doesn’t respect its leaders, a country that’s been destroyed that needs millions of pounds to repair , economic sanctions still being held thought the west. It makes absolutely so little sense.

 

[Souffle]

Quel surprise - that poisonous creature cares nothing for honour and integrity, only money and sycophants. We are really getting an indication of so-called 'stars' and people in the public eye's characters, aren't we?


Have you asked them why, or can you not bear to?!

It’s this photo so we can guess why. Football is obviously much more important than what’s going on now.

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

It makes you wonder what will happen if they do take over the Ukraine. What have they actually ended up with? A country that isn’t internationally recognised by many, a population that doesn’t respect its leaders, a country that’s been destroyed that needs millions of pounds to repair , economic sanctions still being held thought the west. It makes absolutely so little sense.

They then have a country that was about to join NATO.
Then they will go onto the next country not in NATO yet.

 

[crossroads]

It makes you wonder what will happen if they do take over the Ukraine. What have they actually ended up with? A country that isn’t internationally recognised by many, a population that doesn’t respect its leaders, a country that’s been destroyed that needs millions of pounds to repair , economic sanctions still being held thought the west. It makes absolutely so little sense.

I think the motivations are geopolitical and expansionist rather than purely economical - improved access to the Black Sea, improved access to other countries's borders, access to Ukraine's very abundant natural resources, Ukraine prevented from joining NATO.