Ukraine Russia War #6

[howaboutnot]

It makes you wonder what will happen if they do take over the Ukraine. What have they actually ended up with? A country that isn’t internationally recognised by many, a population that doesn’t respect its leaders, a country that’s been destroyed that needs millions of pounds to repair , economic sanctions still being held thought the west. It makes absolutely so little sense.

Others have made brilliant points. To expand on them: Ukraine holds a special place in Russian history: Peter I, and Catherine II both took key parts of what is now Ukrainian territory. Peter I got Kyiv, and Catherine II's forces annexed Crimea and definitely everything East of the Dnieper (I can't remember exactly how much land, sorry!)

Putin wants to be remembered in Russian history as one of the great leaders, and this could, to his mind, be a way of gaining some of their 'glory'/ popularity. Capturing historically Imperial Russian land might be his way of cementing this reputation.

Stepping back in time. Peter I also tried to wage war on Sweden (modern day Estonia and Latvia), and and Catherine II gained a lot of what's now modern day Poland as territory by supporting Stanislaw III. Lots of countries that are established free democracies might be seen Putin the Whacked as de-Russified land that belongs to Russia. When he was growing up, these countries were Soviet states so it's not a massive jump for him to still view them in that way.

It's been posited that capturing Ukraine is just the start, and it's not improbable that he's going to try picking off the non-NATO countries one by one.

 

[Pinotsgoats]

Estonia isn’t a Nato member. So they can’t invoke anything

Er, hate to disagree https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO#Member_countries

Estonia https://vm.ee/en/estonia-and-nato

Edit: I was going to say that only since 2004, but I keep forgetting that it nearly 20 years ago. God, I'm even older than I think

 

[blueblueindigo]

I don't think we can sit in judgment of these people when the only part of their life we know are those comments on a news article taken at a time of birth great emotion and stress.

Why didn't they pay off a woman in their own country? Child trafficking is a tricky unregulated topic full of ethical concerns, they treated a foreign women like a commodity, and now she's left recovering in a war zone.

 

[smirkingrevenge]

Er, hate to disagree https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO#Member_countries

Estonia https://vm.ee/en/estonia-and-nato

I stand corrected. I googled and it looked like they aren’t.

Why didn't they pay off a woman in their own country? Child trafficking is a tricky unregulated topic full of ethical concerns, they treated a foreign women like a commodity, and now she's left recovering in a war zone.

I think this is absolutely the wrong thread for this. This is a dar bigger topic. Would anyone be outraged if there was no war? They got their child out. They paid the woman who probably also left the country. That woman is actually in a better position that most mum’s in the country who have a baby, little to no money and are recovering from childbirth.

 

[Gossngiggles]

Kerry couple bring baby Luke home from Ukraine

'We are incredibly lucky. I know there are other parents that are still there, we're really feeling for them'

www.irishexaminer.com

I don't know if anyone has posted this but this story has made me sick. A surrogate baby being taken back to Ireland look at the ages of the intended parents they look about 55!!! They don't mention once concern for the surrogate mother's welfare or her family. They literally used her as a brood mare then discarded her disgusting entitled people. I hope baby Luke will find out about what they did to his surrogate mother.

I don't think we can sit in judgment of these people when the only part of their life we know are those comments on a news article taken at a time of birth great emotion and stress.

They have got what they paid for they don’t care about the woman whose body they used to get it beyond that. There is so much wrong with this even without a war thrown into the mix.

There was a lady in the Ukraine on the radio today talking about what she is telling her children and how she is trying to keep them safe. She said that some of the explosives are brightly coloured in order to try and get people/children to pick them up

 

[ordinaryjelly]

Horrifying.

He knows the world's watching and won't do a thing.

So help us God.

 

[blueblueindigo]

I stand corrected. I googled and it looked like they aren’t.


I think this is absolutely the wrong thread for this. This is a dar bigger topic. Would anyone be outraged if there was no war? They got their child out. They paid the woman who probably also left the country. That woman is actually in a better position that most mum’s in the country who have a baby, little to no money and are recovering from childbirth.

No, but the war has highlighted how women in Ukraine are exploited by infertile foreigners due to "commericial surrogacy" being legal. These women are in financial difficulty to begin with, and now the couples have got what they paid for, they don't care about the full impact of their transaction, women recovering in a war zone with a few thousand pounds for her service. The Guardian has an article highlighting this issue during the early lockdowns.

There is a reason why these couples went to Ukraine, and did not find someone in their home country, because in most of Europe commercial surrogacy is banned.

 

[ordinaryjelly]

Putin to declare martial law in Russia according to the telegraph

What a mess. I have dear friends in Russia who won't be able to get out. My middle child's god parents who may differ politically from me but who are decent, honest, kind, generous, beautiful people.

Can we just stop this planet and get off? Leave these fuckers to the cess pit they are creating and just go and inhabit another planet?

 

[I'm not Putin]

I dunno why putin hates the west so much and thinks we want ww3 when we genuinely do not want that nor does anyone want to fight Russia

I just feel like regardless of ukraine joining nato they need a comprimise at least for now to get a cease fire there has to be a comprimise both parties can do somewhere to stop anymore dying

 

[Dawn Dayn]

Kerry couple bring baby Luke home from Ukraine

'We are incredibly lucky. I know there are other parents that are still there, we're really feeling for them'

www.irishexaminer.com

I don't know if anyone has posted this but this story has made me sick. A surrogate baby being taken back to Ireland look at the ages of the intended parents they look about 55!!! They don't mention once concern for the surrogate mother's welfare or her family. They literally used her as a brood mare then discarded her disgusting entitled people. I hope baby Luke will find out about what they did to his surrogate mother.

It's grim using poor, desperate women as baby farms. Agree too that I haven't seen a single instance of concern for these poor women now.

 

[ordinaryjelly]

They’re just void of any moral compass.

I think they just aren't human. May be they are bots created in one of their gulags.

 

[WilmaHun]

I dunno why putin hates the west so much and thinks we want we3 when we genuinely do not want that nor does anyone want to fight Russia

I just feel like regardless of ukraine joining nato they need a comprimise at least for now to get a cease fire there has to be a comprimise both parties can do somewhere to stop anymore dying

Unfortunately when dealing with a character like Putin, a dictator, compromise isn't easy nor sometimes even a possibility!

 

[Libbub]

Never trust 'good' or 'nice' guys

Exactly. He's managed to ingratiate himself into people's hearts using money and loads of it.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

Can we just stop this planet and get off? Leave these fuckers to the cess pit they are creating and just go and inhabit another planet?

I am more than ready and begging for an alien spaceship to zap me up far away from this planet Earth. I despair with what it has become. It blows my mind that we are all the same (DNA and all the science stuff) yet so different.

 

[smirkingrevenge]

No, but the war has highlighted how women in Ukraine are exploited by infertile foreigners due to "commericial surrogacy" being legal. These women are in financial difficulty to begin with, and now the couples have got what they paid for, they don't care about the full impact of their transaction, women recovering in a war zone with a few thousand pounds for her service. The Guardian has an article highlighting this issue during the early lockdowns.

There is a reason why these couples went to Ukraine, and did not find someone in their home country, because in most of Europe commercial surrogacy is banned.

They have got what they paid for they don’t care about the woman whose body they used to get it beyond that. There is so much wrong with this even without a war thrown into the mix.

There was a lady in the Ukraine on the radio today talking about what she is telling her children and how she is trying to keep them safe. She said that some of the explosives are brightly coloured in order to try and get people/children to pick them up

It’s problematic for sure but I still think that condemning one couple just because of the timing they had nothing to do with doesn’t help anyone.

 

[Yel]

Still more lines today of Russians trying to get cash out, although unclear if it's because they're wanting foreign money

 

[ordinaryjelly]

Why didn't they pay off a woman in their own country? Child trafficking is a tricky unregulated topic full of ethical concerns, they treated a foreign women like a commodity, and now she's left recovering in a war zone.

We have no idea what their agreement is or was with the birth mother. If you want to sit in judgment of them then carry on.

They have got what they paid for they don’t care about the woman whose body they used to get it beyond that. There is so much wrong with this even without a war thrown into the mix.

There was a lady in the Ukraine on the radio today talking about what she is telling her children and how she is trying to keep them safe. She said that some of the explosives are brightly coloured in order to try and get people/children to pick them up

How on earth do you deduce that from the article linked?

 

[Libbub]

Unfortunately when dealing with a character like Putin, a dictator, compromise isn't easy nor sometimes even a possibility!

I agree. I also think there comes a point when you've gone so far you can't turn back. How would he explain that away? He completely underestimated the worlds reaction to this.

 

[Gossngiggles]

I think surrogacy would be an interesting thread on its own, lots of strong views on both sides. Obviously being highlighted now like it was at the start of Covid but usually people don’t think about it much.

 

[Dawn Dayn]

Macron Hun he ain't that interested in you. It's cringy babes.

The very idea that he thinks he's that important enough to be listened to

Had it not been for the state sanctioned poisoning on UK soil then I'm sure Johnson would be doing the same for his own ego.

Oily little tit, isn't he.