Ukraine Russia War #12

[emm]

What? So this is all a lie and the Ukrainian president has let innocent people be slaughtered and raped?

And obviously the West are backing it because it has really helped our economies

 

[Yel]

Throwing thousands of men who don't want to fight into the cesspit of the Russia-Ukraine war is a complete own goal for Putin. It's like chucking away the 'talent' that could make Russia truly strong on an economical level, had he bothered to invest more effectively in skills and education

I think Russia was facing a collapse in the next few decades and this was Putin's attempt to save it. It's failed massively along with killing it's own people they've driven out investment, destroyed manufacturing and created the mother of all brain drains.

I wonder if sabotage will happen more with so many forced into it? That would be one way to bring it to an end sooner.

 

[Warpaint]

Maybe he'll make a heartfelt apology and withdraw immediately

 

[DownBelow21]

We need something. An assassination. A martyr. Optimus Prime.

Anything.

Just something to kill the cunt.

 

[monga]

Gorbi has passed don’t know if it’ll be welcome on the RIP thread so I’ll put it here

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

Seems Germany's defence minister has resigned, wondering if that's so she doesn't have to be the one to permit the third party tank sales/transfers.

e2a but seemingly plenty of other reasons too but the timing i think is due to the tank permits

Christine Lambrecht: German defence minister resigns after blunders

Christine Lambrecht's exit comes amid pressure to allow the delivery of German-built tanks to Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[NeverEnough]

Totally agree with this but then what would Putins response be? Either admit defeat (unlikely IMO) or he starts firing nukes as conventional war doesn’t seem to be working for him? We’d have to hope his generals step in and stop him.

That is indeed the literally existential question. You just have to trust Russian high command isn’t completely dominated by vainglorious psychopaths who truly believe that the West is run by perverts and satanists who are trying to crush the Russian way of life.

Suicide. For that is what it will be. Is not for everyone.

Y’know maybe we are at the point that the inventors of terrible weapons often talked about, when war reaches such a destructive edge that the mere mention of it makes nations recall in horror. Like Richard Gatling, like Alfred Nobel, like Robert E. Lee. Maybe a limited nuclear strike has to happen to produce a wet fish slap effect to get mankind back to reality?

All deep philosophical questions I suppose, to be considered by much wiser minds than mone.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

The reality is that they are being forced into a war they wan’t know part of. And he calls Ukranians Nazi’s

 

[emm]

apparently he’s sending in prisoners.
Interesting that the option for refusing conscription is prison. If he’s sending in prisoners anyway the option is basically fight or fight

sending in prisoners is pretty terrifying considering the awful acts the russian soldiers have already comitted against ukranians... (rape /torture etc) but not a surprise.
I think I have posted videos from this guy before, but an interesting perspective

 

[monga]

 

[Tatooine_legend1]

I feel so sorry for everybody involved in this war. They are only fodder for whatever the fuck Putin thinks he’s doing.
We were talking last night how we wish somebidy would just kill him but it needs to be somebody with no family etc as they are sure to anihilate them all

I feel for the young men dying in these wars. I don't know how people can become soldiers and end up fighting and potentially dying for some ridiculous wars created by men in suits who have all the power.

 

[Hallowmaiden]

If Putin is replaced it's most likely because Russia wants to back out of the war and save face by blaming everything on Putin. Highly doubt they would replace him with the aim to escalate the war. Bringing in a new guy wouldn't help and they know it. They aren't that stupid. They know they aren't losing because of Putin's strategy, they are losing because they underestimated Ukraine and the west.

A new president wouldn't magically bring the morals of their soldiers up, get them more ammunition or get China and India on their side. Young men aren't fleeing mobilization because it's Putin's war, the are fleeing because they don't want to go to war at all.

Non of Russia's war problem would be solved by replacing Putin.

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

Some interesting additions to the list of people suggesting the glorious leader is blustering rather than genuinely threatening, these ones not of 'the west'.

Russian officials play down Putin’s nuclear threat

Two Russian officials ease fears of nuclear conflict after the president’s thinly veiled warning to the West.

www.aljazeera.com

It does seem like further explaining away of Putin's big talk that was primarily intended for the domestic audience.

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

I know the Sun isn't known for their great reporting but I'm hoping at least that this is true. If China is putting pressure on him we might see the end of this

Isolated Putin loses his last allies as China & India tell him to end bloody war

RUSSIA’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has hinted Russia might have lost one of its last allies after he indicated an uneasy relationship with former supporter China. In recent days, China a…

www.thesun.co.uk

You'll be pleased to know it's reported in non tabloidy places too, they didn't make it up

 

[monga]

They also handed these out near Chernobyl and other reactor sites earlier in the year. I'm not convinced they will allow Putin to press the red button

They seem to be taking the threats seriously especially now he’s losing ground by the day.

 

[Sglodion]

This obviously does make sense, but I think this is overestimating the logic that Putin would use. Even his initial invasion of Ukraine from any POV with anyone in knowledge was insane, and not the 3 days or whatever he thought he would achieve, assuming people think logically in these kind of geo-political sitations is not a good idea of what will happen.
Either way, this is the first time (in my living memory -- I am 35) that an country "not at war" has started banning army age men leaving the country. It is pretty terrifying

I understand what you mean, because that was exactly how I felt when immediately after launching the already crazy invasion he started coming out with even crazier stuff about raising the nuclear threat level and WW3 - that he had literally gone insane and was hellbent on destroying the whole world including Russia just to make some kind of deranged point. People talking about MAD and that he'd only be blowing up himself/his own country didn't help at all. It got to the point where I had to start taking medication to stop myself having delusional thoughts about Russian planes flying over the UK right now to drop conventional explosives on us, when I knew that wasn't even logistically possible (obvs had some pre-existing mental health issues in this vein but never to that extent before).

I don't really know how to explain my relative lack of anxiety this time except to say that I no longer think he's completely insane in that way. Could be wrong of course, I can't prove it, but combined with thinking about all the stuff I said above it does help.

I also have a close friend who actually does have access to more information about things like this than the rest of us (sorry, I know that's a total mumsnetty 'my friend who works in the NHS says...' thing to say, but it's true haha), and while I obviously don't know any details they seem very unpanicked about the whole situation with Russia in general. So that helps calm my worries a lot too.

 

[monga]

This guy posts a lot about how much ground the Ukrainians are taking

 

[Hallowmaiden]

You know you've messed up when North Korea, Syria, Belarus and Nicaragua are your only friends lol

 

[shadowcat5]

Starting to get real ugly now by the looks of things. Part of me thinks it's darkest before dawn but the other part of me thinks we've not seen the half of it

 

[VC10]

The whole referenda circus really saddened me. It brings back memories from that time where people in Eastern Europe were having their democratic rights stolen after WWII. Whole elections were organised but in real it was just coups to put in place communist regimes under Moscow rule.

That's why Putin's speech disgusted me so much. Yes western imperialism has done a lot of shit and neo-colonialism is a real thing (but not just a western thing) but the atrocities committed by others cannot be served as an apology to Putin's regime. Human rights don't exist in Russia and will disappear in any regions that will be annexed to it. People are delusional to believe that supporting China and Russia will free the world from the excesses of a globalised capitalism and other current problems. They are empires - just like the US are or the European powers were. Both countries keep on persecuting minorities that they absorbed against their will. They only thrive by establishing dominance. Putin almost didn't speak about Ukraine or the NATO. His speech made clear that this war is not about some Russian-speakers feeling persecuted in Ukraine but. The goal is clear: bring back to Russia its previous place in the world order. It needs more vassals and regions under influence - like Eastern Europe to achieve it.

Seems like the people's right of autodetermination will always be a fight.

Russia has killed millions upon millions more that the nazi s ever did.