UK Politics #5

[monga]

Realistically if we covered all the crimes that have ever happened we’d have very little time for other news. A lot of the incidents which are covered are often covered because they’re particularly shocking or unusual, but the narrative around the victims does show the wider social views

With Nottingham, I have personally seen the most about the white male student (I understand others may have different experiences with this) and the focus on their class/wealth seems significant to me too - if these were lower income/class people would we be hearing as much or would more of the focus be on the suspect?

Rubbish! The young girl has had equal coverage, she’s also from a privileged background.

 

[Lilliepad]

Rubbish! The young girl has had equal coverage, she’s also from a privileged background.

Maybe it depends on where you’re getting the news, it’s definitely focused on the male student more here, virtually nothing about the older man.
On your point about Chloe, it was actually all over social media too.

 

[Merpedy]

Rubbish! The young girl has had equal coverage, she’s also from a privileged background.

I said other people’s experiences may be different for a reason
Her class is definitely a part of it too. Though it’s also notable that she seems to get a lot of focus on her achievements from what I have seen, the male student doesn’t get as much focus on what he did as hobbies or what he studied it’s all very interesting but idk whether this is the thread to discuss that

 

[monga]

I said other people’s experiences may be different for a reason
Her class is definitely a part of it too. Though it’s also notable that she seems to get a lot of focus on her achievements from what I have seen, the male student doesn’t get as much focus on what he did as hobbies or what he studied it’s all very interesting but idk whether this is the thread to discuss that

Her parents are doctors .I don’t think her class is any different to the young man’s.
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Maybe it depends on where you’re getting the news, it’s definitely focused on the male student more here, virtually nothing about the older man.
On your point about Chloe, it was actually all over social media too.

Yeah there was a vigil ,same for Natalie ,they’re only two out of the many victims that never get a mention…It’s the young girl that’s the focus here
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Maybe it depends on where you’re getting the news, it’s definitely focused on the male student more here, virtually nothing about the older man.
On your point about Chloe, it was actually all over social media too.

There’s also lots being reported about the older man ,he apparently was a great community person did a lot of work with underprivileged youngsters etc.

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

Realistically if we covered all the crimes that have ever happened we’d have very little time for other news. A lot of the incidents which are covered are often covered because they’re particularly shocking or unusual, but the narrative around the victims does show the wider social views

Exactly, for instance that scottish couple who got chopped up by a drug gang over debts in broad daylight. Pictures and video going round social media but the news report was just the blandest 'two people seriously injured in an incident' bare minimum article going.

 

[Officedoor123]

It was on social media so the part about him harming other people may or may not be factually correct, but the fact that this got no coverage is exactly what people are getting at. Random attack, ‘good’ victim, just in a place where people expect it so little to no coverage.

Terrible as the Brixton murder was, the Nottingham situation was three dead and three seriously injured with terrorist overtones. I feel like it's just a bigger news story.

The vigils three nights in a row and bereaved families making speeches makes me worry that the families feel expected to go public these days and might regret it later on, they are so vulnerable, to see the teenage brothers cry broke my heart.
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Realistically if we covered all the crimes that have ever happened we’d have very little time for other news. A lot of the incidents which are covered are often covered because they’re particularly shocking or unusual, but the narrative around the victims does show the wider social views

With Nottingham, I have personally seen the most about the white male student (I understand others may have different experiences with this) and the focus on their class/wealth seems significant to me too - if these were lower income/class people would we be hearing as much or would more of the focus be on the suspect?

Elle, the 21 Yr old beautician from Liverpool who was shot and killed on Xmas eve received huge coverage. The pub sounded a bit rough and the area didn't sound anything special and her family seemed normal (not obv wealthy or middle class but who knows?) But she was stunning and it was Xmas eve so I would think that's two things that might have pushed the story.

 

[monga]

Terrible as the Brixton murder was, the Nottingham situation was three dead and three seriously injured with terrorist overtones. I feel like it's just a bigger news story.

The vigils three nights in a row and bereaved families making speeches makes me worry that the families feel expected to go public these days and might regret it later on, they are so vulnerable, to see the teenage brothers cry broke my heart.
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Elle, the 21 Yr old beautician from Liverpool who was shot and killed on Xmas eve received huge coverage. The pub sounded a bit rough and the area didn't sound anything special and her family seemed normal (not obv wealthy or middle class but who knows?) But she was stunning and it was Xmas eve so I would think that's two things that might have pushed the story.

Let’s hope they can pick up the pieces once things settle down.

Nottingham attacks: Valdo Calocane to appear in court charged with three murders

Valdo Calocane, 31, is charged with three counts of murder and three counts of attempted murder. He will appear at Nottingham Magistrates' Court today.

news.sky.com

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

I would like to see all crimes get equal coverage and public outrage, regardless of who the victim or attacker is.

That will never happen. I think most people would amazed at how many murders, violent assaults and robberies take place daily. Speak to any ambulance crew or policeman and they will tell you how many they have dealt with and how many have reached the news.

As stated, unless it is particularly awful, terrorist related or unusual it won't get a mention.

 

[Perspicacia Tick]

I actually think the more interesting thing about this is the furore surrounding the suspect being a West African migrant and the relative silence now it turns out he's a Portuguese citizen with settled status through the EU settlement scheme.

The heavy reporting on his victims vs the way other (just as important) victims of other backgrounds are reported on is depressing, but really not at all surprising. They tick a lot of the 'worthy' victim boxes that others don't. It's not fair and it shouldn't be the case but I've no idea how we can change it.

 

[Piff paff puff]

I actually think the more interesting thing about this is the furore surrounding the suspect being a West African migrant and the relative silence now it turns out he's a Portuguese citizen with settled status through the EU settlement scheme.

The heavy reporting on his victims vs the way other (just as important) victims of other backgrounds are reported on is depressing, but really not at all surprising. They tick a lot of the 'worthy' victim boxes that others don't. It's not fair and it shouldn't be the case but I've no idea how we can change it.

It's been days now and they've only established his real identity? FFS

 

[Merpedy]

It's been days now and they've only established his real identity? FFS

It was already established that he had settled status and arrived here legally, details just weren’t released and are still hard to find

UK’s Nottingham attack suspect 'may have Portuguese nationality'

UK’s Nottingham attack suspect 'may have Portuguese nationality'; UK’s Nottingham attack suspect 'may have Portuguese nationality'

www.portugalresident.com

 

[monga]

Just shows they don’t know who they’re letting into the country, legal or illegal
Plus who paid for his uni fees if he’s homeless and on the streets?
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I actually think the more interesting thing about this is the furore surrounding the suspect being a West African migrant and the relative silence now it turns out he's a Portuguese citizen with settled status through the EU settlement scheme.

The heavy reporting on his victims vs the way other (just as important) victims of other backgrounds are reported on is depressing, but really not at all surprising. They tick a lot of the 'worthy' victim boxes that others don't. It's not fair and it shouldn't be the case but I've no idea how we can change it.

Guinea -Bissau is in West Africa that’s where they said he was from .The language is Portuguese.

 

[Merpedy]

Just shows they don’t know who they’re letting into the country, legal or illegal

There seem to be a lot of rules or specifics about this so I won’t even try to summarise:

Settled status: what you need to know if you are an EU citizen and have a criminal record - Unlock

Introduction This information is about the EU Settlement Scheme for applicants with a criminal record. The EU Settlement Scheme protects the rights you currently have in the UK through the process of applying for settled or pre-settled status. As part of the applications process, there are...

unlock.org.uk

I’ve heard of some people being refused settled status due to their criminal records but I don’t know the details

Plus who paid for his uni fees if he’s homeless and on the streets?

Student Finance probably - I don’t remember on the top of my head but EU nationals living here had to jump through a bunch of extra hoops to receive finance, pretty sure now it’s enough to provide proof of pre/settled status but I may be wrong

No extra details seem to be known about his homelessness - when it started or why

 

[monga]

There seem to be a lot of rules or specifics about this so I won’t even try to summarise:

Settled status: what you need to know if you are an EU citizen and have a criminal record - Unlock

Introduction This information is about the EU Settlement Scheme for applicants with a criminal record. The EU Settlement Scheme protects the rights you currently have in the UK through the process of applying for settled or pre-settled status. As part of the applications process, there are...

unlock.org.uk

I’ve heard of some people being refused settled status due to their criminal records but I don’t know the details


Student Finance probably - I don’t remember on the top of my head but EU nationals living here had to jump through a bunch of extra hoops to receive finance, pretty sure now it’s enough to provide proof of pre/settled status but I may be wrong

No extra details seem to be known about his homelessness - when it started or why

He was educated from childhood in the UK so would follow the normal routes to further education would he not ? I think there’s a news blackout until after his court appearance going by the police statement…I read he lived in Wales from at least age7 so the criminality wouldn’t have been a factor then, there were reports he is a low level drug dealer so might explain his homelessness.

 

[Perspicacia Tick]

Just shows they don’t know who they’re letting into the country, legal or illegal
Plus who paid for his uni fees if he’s homeless and on the streets?
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Guinea -Bissau is in West Africa that’s where they said he was from .The language is Portuguese.

Based on everything I've read, I got the impression he has dual heritage. So one parent from Guinea-Bissau and one from Portugal. I don't think you get settled status just because you speak a European language...

 

[Merpedy]

He was educated from childhood in the UK so would follow the normal routes to further education would he not ?

Yes but it doesn’t change the fact that, at least before the whole settled status stuff, EU nationals had to provide extra documents/information to Student Finance to receive funding

Obviously most applications are done online and I think it’s a lot quicker and simpler but paper versions show some of the differences:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1151449/sfe_pn1_form_2324_o.pdf

Form from pre-settled status

https://media.slc.co.uk/sfe/1920/ft/sfe_pn1_form_1920_o.pdf

 

[monga]

Based on everything I've read, I got the impression he has dual heritage. So one parent from Guinea-Bissau and one from Portugal. I don't think you get settled status just because you speak a European language...

He came as a child ,his mum’s a nurse ,maybe she came to on a work visa and was granted settled status? That’s the case with a lot of nurses in our area.

 

[Merpedy]

Based on everything I've read, I got the impression he has dual heritage. So one parent from Guinea-Bissau and one from Portugal. I don't think you get settled status just because you speak a European language...

It was the Telegraph that alluded to Valdo Calocane’s possible Portuguese nationality, explaining in a article that his parents, originally from Guinea Bissau, received Portuguese nationality in Madeira in 2006 before moving to Wales and acquiring resident status as European nationals.

From the article above, but may be useful to find the Telegraph article

 

[Perspicacia Tick]

He came as a child ,his mum’s a nurse ,maybe she came to on a work visa and was granted settled status? That’s the case with a lot of nurses in our area.

BBC definitely reporting he had dual citizenship.

Nottingham attacks: Valdo Calocane charged with three counts of murder

Barnaby Webber, Grace O'Malley-Kumar and Ian Coates were stabbed to death on Tuesday.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Merpedy]

He came as a child ,his mum’s a nurse ,maybe she came to on a work visa and was granted settled status? That’s the case with a lot of nurses in our area.

Work visas don’t give settled status. As I would understand, the phrase is primarily reserved for the EU settlement scheme