Interesting article from Washington Post covering this here: Is Judaism an ethnicity? A race? A nationality?
I left more confused ... this line sums the article up: Like many good Jewish questions, the answer was both no and yes.
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I left more confused ... this line sums the article up: Like many good Jewish questions, the answer was both no and yes.
I thought they were all still ethnically Jewish though because they're descended from ancient Israelites (12 tribes of Israel) that spread all over the world.
When I saw this I couldn’t stop laughing. I can’t take Rishi seriously at all.
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Race and racism is a complicated subject, especially for Jews and especially in America. But to say that Jews and Travellers haven’t faced racism is grossly unfair. The Holocaust killed millions of Jews, Roma and Sinti and used racial stereotypes to oppress them. Them being white or white passing didn’t save them and the compare it to ginger people is rather disgusting
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What doesn't help Dianne is her close association with comrade Corbyn and her, let's say, various faux pas in the past.
Many Jews killed in the Holocaust were in terms of religion actually Christian, their families having converted generations before. They were persecuted solely for being ETHNICALLY Jewish and when incarcerated in the camps had to lose their own ‘Westernized’ names (as well as everything else) and had typical ‘Jewish’ names foisted upon them to make sure they were ‘other’ enough. If that isn’t racism I don’t know what is and to argue otherwise is frankly a disgrace. Glad to hear that Sheila put that racist in his place.
Sorry I’m a bit lost here - who’s Shelia and who’s the make racist?
Should have quoted the message I was replying to from the previous page.
A bloke rang in to Sheila Fogarty's show yesterday afternoon to say that Diane's letter cant have been racist as being Jewish is a religion like Church of England, Catholic, etc and not a race. Never ceases to amaze me how people who know so little have the confidence to call in to a national radio station! Our She soon put him right
I do mandatory training in prejudice, bias, discrimination, etc because of my job but if I didnt work in a large organisation, Im not sure I'd know the difference to be fair.
I see Andrew Bridgen has been permanently expelled from the Tory party. Niiiiiiice.
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has dismissed a call for the government to apologise and pay reparations for the UK's historic role in slavery.
I agree. That's one American import we don't need, this reparations bullsh1te.
I agree. That's one American import we don't need, this reparations bullsh1te.
Nelson Mandela called for Peace and Reconcilliation when trying to unify South Africa, that's why he's a great man. Not like these money-grabbing, race-baiting people calling for reparations.
How is it bullshite when descendants of slave owners are sitting on wealth generated by the slave trade today (former prime minister David Cameron for example) and UK taxpayers paid slave owners compensation for their "lost property" i.e slaves up until 2015?
Wealthy families and institutions can literally draw a line between their assets and the slave trade.
Poor countries and communities can also literally draw a line between their poverty and the slave trade/colonialism.
And where do you think these American slave owners came from? I'll give you a hint, many of them are British!
If reparations are the solution, Britain is not less guilty than America.
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The Europeans grabbed the money, people, wealth and assets first...
The Europeans capitalised on the idea that people of certain races were lesser than first....
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Also, how insulting to speak on people who are descendants of one of the most violent acts in history in this way.
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Even if one was to accept that accusation was true, which is a stretch, it's a race to the bottom then? How much do these people want in reparations? How much is one person worth? Show your workings. How far are we going back here? Do descendents of troglodytes deserve reparations due to all the pain and suffering caused by homosapiens?
People demanding reparations should accept an apology and move on. It's the healthy thing to do and it stops ridiculous discussions like this .
Maybe ask the families who received compensation until 2015 for each slave they "lost" how much a person is worth?
Britain knew exactly what value to place on "lost property" when it came to charging us tax on it, but suddenly there's no way of working out how much it's worth and an apology will suffice.
Why didn't descendants of slave owners reject the cash until 2015 and ask for an apology instead?
Britain's Slave Owner Compensation Loan, reparations and tax havenry - Tax Justice Network
It's hard to believe but it was only in 2015 that, according to the Treasury, British taxpayers finished 'paying off' the debt which the British government incurred in order to compensate British slave owners in 1835 because of the abolition of slavery. Abolition meant their profiteering from...
taxjustice.net
The British government borrowed £20 million to compensate slave owners, which amounted to a massive 40 percent of the Treasury’s annual income or about 5 percent of British GDP. The loan was one of the largest in history
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It would get very complicated paying back, and some people who classed themselves as due reparations might find that they too had to cough up for what their ancestors did.
The history of slavery is fascinating and the British involvement in it has its own surprises.
The history of slavery is fascinating and the British involvement in it has its own surprises.
I don't think it's complicated because the UK knew exactly who to direct the money to when it came to paying compensation.
Similarly, the Africans who were involved in the slave trade can be traced, such as this woman's great grandfather https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53444752
And as you'll notice, it's people in and from the Americas and West Indies calling for reparations for the slave trade. Seeing as they aren't in Africa, it's safe to say none of them will be paying themselves compensation because the very fact they're in the Americas is proof their people were enslaved.
It's only complicated if you intentionally deflect and sanitise your role in the atrocity, which Britain has successfully done.
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We have to ask ourselves why there's more public upset and discussion over reparations than there ever was about slave owners being paid through our taxes. The fact that the slave owner compensation isn't common knowledge goes to show how far Britain will go to bury its role in everything.
And the hypocrisy of David Cameron making this statement in 2015, all the while knowing his pockets were being lined by his family's role in the slave trade. If anyone's a money grabber...
www.cnbc.com
And the hypocrisy of David Cameron making this statement in 2015, all the while knowing his pockets were being lined by his family's role in the slave trade. If anyone's a money grabber...
UK PM Cameron says no reparations for slave trade: BBC
British Prime Minister David Cameron said his administration would not make reparations for the country's role in the Caribbean slave trade.
Meh, let me know when modern slavery, which is happening NOW on every high street in Britain through nail bars, car washes, restaurant/takeaways etc is fully solved. Then we can come back and start to look at things from hundreds of years ago.
www.antislavery.org
Modern slavery in the UK - Anti-Slavery International
Modern slavery still thrives in Britain today, with up to 13,000 estimated to be victims of trafficking. Find out how people end up in slavery in the UK.
www.antislavery.org
I’m sure they’d be classed as servants Kev !that’s how they termed Irish slaves ,taken abroad ,starved ,put into forced labour, even sold but because they didn’t have a lifetime of hell they were only servants according to laws drawn up at the timeMeh, let me know when modern slavery, which is happening NOW on every high street in Britain through nail bars, car washes, restaurant/takeaways etc is fully solved. Then we can come back and start to look at things from hundreds of years ago.
Modern slavery in the UK - Anti-Slavery International
Modern slavery still thrives in Britain today, with up to 13,000 estimated to be victims of trafficking. Find out how people end up in slavery in the UK.
That old chestnut. Very convenient as there will always be more recent events, because that's how life and history work.Meh, let me know when modern slavery, which is happening NOW on every high street in Britain through nail bars, car washes, restaurant/takeaways etc is fully solved. Then we can come back and start to look at things from hundreds of years ago.
Modern slavery in the UK - Anti-Slavery International
Modern slavery still thrives in Britain today, with up to 13,000 estimated to be victims of trafficking. Find out how people end up in slavery in the UK.
However, I think people have the mental and cognitive capacity to do both. Let's not underestimate the British mind.
It's lazy to say "oh it happened X number of years ago" because if you look at these people and countries today, the lasting effects are very much current.
Another atrocity which needs correcting.
It's estimated that 70% of wealthy families will lose their wealth by the second generation and 90% will lose it by the third. So seeking reparations from the descendants of slave owners is bullsh1t. Plus, the British government didn't just end paying slave owners compensation in 2015, it was the debt they incurred in abolishing slavery in the early 19th century that was finally settled, not payments to slave owners! Which was an enoromous figure for the time, accounting for 40% of Britain's budget. Britain paid an almost crippling financial cost to lead the way and abolish slavery, at a time when slavery was commonplace everywhere in the entire world... but still 1807 isn't woke enough by 2023 standards for some. Britain has nothing to be ashamed about in leading the world in ending slavery.
And speaking of slavery being commonplace, Africa had a long tradition of slavery centuries before European slavers arrived. Rival tribes routinely enslaved conquered enemies as an accepted and expected part of warfare of the region. Chieftains were happy to supply such slaves to the Europeans for a suitable price and similarly provide assistance in raiding parties. So much so that many slave traders had no need to ever venture into the interior, relying entirely on the already indigenous slavers.
Slavery continued in Africa well into the 20th century long after it was abolished in Europe and America. Payment reparations can begin in Africa and I want Africa to pay reparations for the enslavement of Europeans by the Moors too, given the Barbary slave trade was comparable to the transatlantic slave trade and in full swing during the same period. It's from the Barbary slave trade that we get the word "kidnapped" as they merrily enslaved entire populations of southern European coastal regions from Italy to Ireland. I wonder how many descendants of the 2 million or so Europeans who were sold in the slave markets of north Africa and the Middle East would be owed financial redress? Will you lead the campaign on their behalf, Blueblue123?
Then I want the Arab states to pay reparations for European and African enslavement. I want the Egyptians to pay reparations, I want the Mauritania, China, India and Russia to pay reparations. I want the descendants of the native American tribes who enslaved European settlers, torturing men and women to death in the most barbaric ways imaginable, to pay reparations. I want black slave owners in the Antebellum South, who per capita out numbered white slave owners, to pay reparations. I want the freed American black slaves who immigrated to Liberia, and who then promptly enslaved the black local populace, to pay reparations.
I want immigrants to the UK who would undoubtedly be the descendants of Ottoman slave owners or Indian slave-owners or Chinese slave-owners to pay their share, too.
The Bible and the Quran both clearly support slavery, so Jews, Christians and Muslims have all owned slaves at some point in history - pay up! Most ancient Greek cities were about 30% slave population at least. The Spartans had slaves (helots outnumbered Spartans by a factor of 7). The Slavic people is where the term "slave" comes from, and as Islam expanded during the 7th and 8th century Slavic slaves were imported from Italian merchants. 10% - 20% of the population of the Roman empire were slaves after all. The Mongols enslaved thousands in the 13th century and Genghis Kahn owned slaves with 1 in 200 men on Earth today estimated to be directly descended from him... so very likely you're a descendant of a slave owner too, Blueblue123. Get your money out.
Slavery is actually more globally widespread *today* than it was through the 18th & 19th centuries; there are more slaves alive today than there were at the height of slavery in the US. Except that's not in the West, doesn't fit the narrative, and the hypocrites agitating for reparations don't get worked up about that, a tangible evil to address in the here and now, instead of this grievance, gimme-a-handout, bullsh1t.
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