The Royal Family #41

[cee-bee]

Honestly I think a huge part about why people dislike them is their fan base! The “Sussex squad” are just obsessive and some of the things they say about the other royals is just But then I cant comprehend dedicating my time to a person I have never and will never meet

the whole Sussex squad thing doesn’t even feel like it’s really about being especially enamoured of H&M

I think it’s a group of people, very active online, who maybe feel outside the periphery. Britain is very socially stratified in subtle ways. There’s a lot of snobbery. The royal family are in a way the epicentre of that. Because they are all about being inherently born better, and the circle of aristocracy that surrounds them is a similar mindset. It trickles down, the ideology. When your head of state is in that position because of a belief of divine right to rule - which is the core of the monarchy - as an ideology, it trickles down. People can start to believe people are “born” better than others. I’ve seen firsthand how friends from working class or migrant backgrounds almost have a servile attitude. Like they’ve really bought into the ideology that the RF really were born better than them. Conversely, I’ve known people from minority backgrounds who have become super snobby and invested in the royal family because they are aspirational. Both sets of ideas are rooted in the undeniable fact that the royal family set themselves as being born special and above the rest. You simply can’t be a working member of that family and not buy into that ideology on some level.

I think for the Sussex squad, H&M represented a total rejection of that idea (even though Harry’s views on it are still pretty problematic). And the fact Meghan is biracial compounded that - because let’s face it, the royal family and the upper classes aren’t racially diverse.

if you’re a working class and/or 2nd or 3rd generation migrant particularly - I can see why that would appeal. You’d be born British, identify as British - but don’t see yourself represented in British historical narrative or in heads of state. I come from a working class background myself, and I can see the appeal.

Harry and Meghan have, (unwittingly I suspect, because neither of them seem great at nuance or subtleties) kinda become the poster child for that person who feels marginalised.

I think that’s why the fans get so emotive and are so deeply invested in them. No one really loves Harry or Meghan. Neither have said or done much of real substance. People love them because they’ve projected onto them.

 

[hannah123]

Will anybody be watching? I stopped at the end of the first Diana season because I found that season got boring towards the end. I liked the earlier seasons for the forgotten or important cultural & political stories of the time, with the family being the main characters that were woven into those stories and how they handled the times. When it just became about the stories of the family and that’s it, it got quite boring watching people constantly arguing. I think they thought people were far more interested in the Diana story than they are so have dragged it out, but by dragging it out they’ve done it a bit of a disservice if people are clicking off.

 

[Great_Kate]

@cee-bee I can follow your argument but I am convinced there is a big group that absolutely understands the history and knows that keeping the RF (and aristocracy) on is not aligned with their actual ideals and believes but can still enjoy keeping them.
The Sqad though- from the little I gather, they aren’t really a UK thing. More a US thing which makes it even weirder. I do think they are projecting but it has definitely ventured into a strange craze. Same for the people that run the anti-Sussex accounts. A lot don’t seem to be British as they seem to lack a lot of common knowledge you’d expect from a British citizen.
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View attachment 2576611

Will anybody be watching? I stopped at the end of the first Diana season because I found that season got boring towards the end. I liked the earlier seasons for the forgotten or important cultural & political stories of the time, with the family being the main characters that were woven into those stories and how they handled the times. When it just became about the stories of the family and that’s it, it got quite boring watching people constantly arguing. I think they thought people were far more interested in the Diana story than they are so have dragged it out, but by dragging it out they’ve done it a bit of a disservice if people are clicking off.

I mean it’s called the Crown. Not Diana. I think exploring the reaction of press, public and RF to all the other important events while also looking at the absolute craziness of how this relationship went down the drain and the mass hysteria around her death would be worthwhile. But with each decade it becomes more obvious that it’s basically historically inspired. And still, people quote it as factual.

 

[cee-bee]

View attachment 2576611

Will anybody be watching? I stopped at the end of the first Diana season because I found that season got boring towards the end. I liked the earlier seasons for the forgotten or important cultural & political stories of the time, with the family being the main characters that were woven into those stories and how they handled the times. When it just became about the stories of the family and that’s it, it got quite boring watching people constantly arguing. I think they thought people were far more interested in the Diana story than they are so have dragged it out, but by dragging it out they’ve done it a bit of a disservice if people are clicking off.

I thought the Diana stuff was great tbh. I didn’t have much faith in Emma Corrin because she didn’t look like Diana at all, but she did a pretty good job of capturing her accent and mannerisms.

Elizabeth Debicki is incredible.

there’s a scene where Charles and Diana are post divorce and sitting around a dining room table, and it’s a masterclass in dialogue and acting. It’s obviously fictional but the writing has perfectly captured the dynamic of two people with conflicting feelings and conflicting ideologies, and I think lent a lot of humanity to both Charles and Diana instead of turning their story into a pantomime with the poor innocent princess V the cruel, cold husband.

It was really powerful and emotive acting.

I think a lot of people don’t like Diana’s depiction in the crown because it’s almost became a loyalty thing. It’s Diana V the Crown. And anything sympathetic or at all focused on her becomes anti-crown.

I didn’t initially want to watch the crown because I thought it would be horribly sycophantic but I actually think it captures the humanity of the people involved while also acknowledging their flaws, privilege and ignorance. It’s a great TV show.

 

[Boring Monday]

View attachment 2576611

Will anybody be watching? I stopped at the end of the first Diana season because I found that season got boring towards the end. I liked the earlier seasons for the forgotten or important cultural & political stories of the time, with the family being the main characters that were woven into those stories and how they handled the times. When it just became about the stories of the family and that’s it, it got quite boring watching people constantly arguing. I think they thought people were far more interested in the Diana story than they are so have dragged it out, but by dragging it out they’ve done it a bit of a disservice if people are clicking off.

That’s the thing though, isnt it … the earlier series were just as much a construct and fictionalised but because of the distance between the events and now it actually had a spurious … authority? I know my own elderly relatives who were around for most - and in some cases all of it - found some of it hilarious.

 

[jkroche95]

the whole Sussex squad thing doesn’t even feel like it’s really about being especially enamoured of H&M

I think it’s a group of people, very active online, who maybe feel outside the periphery. Britain is very socially stratified in subtle ways. There’s a lot of snobbery. The royal family are in a way the epicentre of that. Because they are all about being inherently born better, and the circle of aristocracy that surrounds them is a similar mindset. It trickles down, the ideology. When your head of state is in that position because of a belief of divine right to rule - which is the core of the monarchy - as an ideology, it trickles down. People can start to believe people are “born” better than others. I’ve seen firsthand how friends from working class or migrant backgrounds almost have a servile attitude. Like they’ve really bought into the ideology that the RF really were born better than them. Conversely, I’ve known people from minority backgrounds who have become super snobby and invested in the royal family because they are aspirational. Both sets of ideas are rooted in the undeniable fact that the royal family set themselves as being born special and above the rest. You simply can’t be a working member of that family and not buy into that ideology on some level.

I think for the Sussex squad, H&M represented a total rejection of that idea (even though Harry’s views on it are still pretty problematic). And the fact Meghan is biracial compounded that - because let’s face it, the royal family and the upper classes aren’t racially diverse.

if you’re a working class and/or 2nd or 3rd generation migrant particularly - I can see why that would appeal. You’d be born British, identify as British - but don’t see yourself represented in British historical narrative or in heads of state. I come from a working class background myself, and I can see the appeal.

Harry and Meghan have, (unwittingly I suspect, because neither of them seem great at nuance or subtleties) kinda become the poster child for that person who feels marginalised.

I think that’s why the fans get so emotive and are so deeply invested in them. No one really loves Harry or Meghan. Neither have said or done much of real substance. People love them because they’ve projected onto them.

If/when Harry and Meghan divorce, I could def see the Sussex squad turn on Harry.

 

[F1Grid]

If/when Harry and Meghan divorce, I could def see the Sussex squad turn on Harry.

Agreed. I don't think Harry is of interest to the Sussex Squad at all, they're just Meghan stans.

 

[Honeystar]

I loved season 1 and 2 of the crown. I stopped watching but thought I would watch the last series as I'm interested to see how they handle Diana's death, Will and Kate and how they end it all.

My big takeaway so far however is that what I enjoyed about series 1 and 2 was the unknown elements we learned about, the stories we didn't fully know already, the new reactions and opinions, the new characters etc (albeit taken with a pinch of salt)... there is so much they could have covered during this era in a similar vein - Princess Anne's kidnap, it's a royal knockout etc - but instead they've solely focused the past 2-3 seasons on Diana, a story we have all heard time and time again. Of course it had to be featured, but the 4 eps of season 6 released yesterday feature Diana more than they do the Queen

 

[hannah123]

That’s the thing though, isnt it … the earlier series were just as much a construct and fictionalised but because of the distance between the events and now it actually had a spurious … authority? I know my own elderly relatives who were around for most - and in some cases all of it - found some of it hilarious.

Which is fair enough, I think most (hopefully) know the earlier series also took artistic license. I just got quite bored with the arguing, if I wanted to watch 2 people screaming at each other I’d watch Married At First Sight.

I saw the first 3 episodes of season 6 are just the summer of St Tropez and Paris. They used to have one episode following weeks of events and now have 3 episodes just for a summer holiday.

 

[cee-bee]

One of my fav moments on the crown is when the Queen, queen mum and Anne are discussing if Camilla is suitable for Charles, and when the queen kind asks if she’s a bit oblivious to what goes on, Anne and the queen mum just kinda side eye each other.

and when Andrew is having lunch with his mum and talking about getting a job in the navy, insisting (I think) that he doesn’t get preferential treatment because they are just normal, regular people… then a clip of him taking off in a helicopter

 

[Blurp]

The Sqad though- from the little I gather, they aren’t really a UK thing. More a US thing which makes it even weirder. I do think they are projecting but it has definitely ventured into a strange craze. Same for the people that run the anti-Sussex accounts. A lot don’t seem to be British as they seem to lack a lot of common knowledge you’d expect from a British citizen.

It's the same with the Diana stans and anti-Camilla crowd. Any time Camilla is referred to as The Queen they're quick to fill up the comments with things like 'not the Queen', 'adulterer', 'Consort not Queen', 'Queen Diana', 'The Queen is Queen Elizabeth', etc; the Brits are the ones pointing out that yes, she is The Queen, same as Queens Mary, Elizabeth and Alexandra, Diana was divorced and is dead, Diana wasn't a saint, give it a bloody rest, and so on. I enjoy pointing out that the affair with Diana broke up the Carlings' marriage and that Oliver Hoare had to call the police on her after their affair and her stalking nearly broke up his marriage; they have no idea about these things and have a very Disneyfied image of Diana and Camilla.

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

Elizabeth Debicki is incredible.

I thought she was terrible. Just a caricature. The whole thing was just looking out of the top of her eyes.

 

[thegirlscout]

View attachment 2576611

Will anybody be watching? I stopped at the end of the first Diana season because I found that season got boring towards the end. I liked the earlier seasons for the forgotten or important cultural & political stories of the time, with the family being the main characters that were woven into those stories and how they handled the times. When it just became about the stories of the family and that’s it, it got quite boring watching people constantly arguing. I think they thought people were far more interested in the Diana story than they are so have dragged it out, but by dragging it out they’ve done it a bit of a disservice if people are clicking off.

There’s a thread on here about the show with some good discussions. I’ve watched it and on the second episode of this series. I don’t know what happened but after series 2 the show sort of fell off for me. Maybe because the magic was Claire Foy and Matt Smith but it also feels the writing has gone down hill and everything is rushed.

 

[FakeSmile]

There’s a thread on here about the show with some good discussions. I’ve watched it and on the second episode of this series. I don’t know what happened but after series 2 the show sort of fell off for me. Maybe because the magic was Claire Foy and Matt Smith but it also feels the writing has gone down hill and everything is rushed.

I couldn’t get into it after Claire Foy and Matt Smith. It was like a completely different show to me.

 

[CuriousCat92]

So Kate was apparently on Children In Need his evening, struggling a bit with this but I might be the wrong age. Does anyone really watch it now? I know schools still support it etc but is it widespread other than that? I don’t really even imagine parents watch the tv show that much. It just feels like a miss to me but am I being unfair?

 

[cee-bee]

So Kate was apparently on Children In Need his evening, struggling a bit with this but I might be the wrong age. Does anyone really watch it now? I know schools still support it etc but is it widespread other than that? I don’t really even imagine parents watch the tv show that much. It just feels like a miss to me but am I being unfair?

I think children in need has been a bit naff for a long time now.

valid cause and all that, but like comic relief, it’s almost an excuse for celebs to show off how altruistic and wonderful they are, while capitalising on the exposure. The charity singles always got high in the charts in the past which was a win for whoever had managed to bag that job.

 

[jkroche95]

So Kate was apparently on Children In Need his evening, struggling a bit with this but I might be the wrong age. Does anyone really watch it now? I know schools still support it etc but is it widespread other than that? I don’t really even imagine parents watch the tv show that much. It just feels like a miss to me but am I being unfair?

I used to love watching it when i was little, the Eastenders songs were always good! Haven't watched it in about 10 years though

 

[wishiniwasskinny]

I think Children in Need is mainly a BBC charitable cause and I don’t watch the TV show (never really have) but they also have events going on all week on BBC radio etc. Vernon Kay did an ultra marathon this week on BBC radio 2 and they always raise well over a million just for those challenges. Either way, I don’t see a Royal lending their voice to any charitable endeavour ever being a miss… to my knowledge she’d just done a pre-recorded VT introducing the show?

 

[Glaschelle]

It's the same with the Diana stans and anti-Camilla crowd. Any time Camilla is referred to as The Queen they're quick to fill up the comments with things like 'not the Queen', 'adulterer', 'Consort not Queen', 'Queen Diana', 'The Queen is Queen Elizabeth', etc; the Brits are the ones pointing out that yes, she is The Queen, same as Queens Mary, Elizabeth and Alexandra, Diana was divorced and is dead, Diana wasn't a saint, give it a bloody rest, and so on. I enjoy pointing out that the affair with Diana broke up the Carlings' marriage and that Oliver Hoare had to call the police on her after their affair and her stalking nearly broke up his marriage; they have no idea about these things and have a very Disneyfied image of Diana and Camilla.

During the Remeberance day commemorations, they laid a wreath on behalf of the Queen. I thought that's lovely doing that even though she's died. But it was for Camilla

I'm not anti-Camilla (not like after diana died - couldn't stand her then!!!) But I can't get used to someone else being Queen.

Also can't get used to the UK National Anthrm being God Save the King. Feels like we should have retired God Save the Queen and got a new Anthem!!!

They could have used Charlie is my Darling - after all this is about a royal Prince

 

[Mrs Fluff]

I couldn’t get into it after Claire Foy and Matt Smith. It was like a completely different show to me.

I didn't mind Olivia Coleman and Tobias Menzies (although I thought the latter might have made a good older Charles). I switched off when Diana appeared as it was no longer interesting to me historically by then.