The Archie Battersbee case

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Whether there has been clinical negligence is a moot point because the fact is that this child has suffered catastrophic brain damage and there is no hope of recovery. The dignity of the individual is not being respected by him being maintained in this way. It's inhumane.

The mother and her followers apparently have some sort of symbiotic relationship where she is leading them to believe there will be a recovery whilst simultaneously acknowledging there won't be. Why is she doing this? Money? Fame? Attention?

Who knows?

I suspect the medical attention that wasn't obtained for him was due to the family not seeking help when they found him practising how to hang himself the day before the fatal incident is the real negligence in this case.
 
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Yes it is


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There is a thread on tattle where people tell of their own experience a tiny sample of the population but almost everyone seems to have a horror story including myself. The medical profession can and do close ranks and its very hard to win a case or in fact get a case started.
You've just linked 3 articles which are referring to the study debunked in the article the poster above you linked. Repeating rubbish doesn't make it more true, I'm sorry. Medical mistakes happen but to say they are fatal more often than car crashes is just mad. Archie isnt in hospital because of a medical mistake.
 
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Thing is, a lot of her army clearly aren’t going to support or care for the justice system. They think it’s part of some big conspiracy

I’m all for exhausting the appeal process because that’s just a right she has but I do wonder if we may see some legal changes one day soon, at least to try and protect the child’s dignity and the staff themselves. Maybe changes to the process in general. Orinta’s mother was allowed to have two independent doctors check and they concluded the same thing so she made the decision to let her go, though I think she also collected money?

I also wonder if Hollie gets some sort of counselling for all of this. Someone mentioned that part of the reason it’s hard for her to come to terms with it is because Archie does look somewhat alive. That’s probably not something you can process on your own in that situation, and I know mental health services in this country suck but in these situations they seem essential

Granted, I’m still of the opinion that she’s in this for money. Saying in court that they want a ‘natural’ death but then telling her army that he’s going to be fine is a major change, and the whole financial model for this is basically based on Archie magically getting up one day. What’s the point in giving money to something where they will just remain in the same state?
Archie’s mum did have someone independent but the judge was a bit scathing in her June judgment

“ The final witness was Dr Shewmon from the US. A man of expertise and considerable standing, instructed by the parents, he made a statement dated 5th June 2022, the day before the final hearing started. I was grateful for his industry. An undoubted expert in the field, he explained how the standard for death differed in the UK to that in the US. The US used whole brain death test whilst the UK concentrated on the brain stem.

Dr Shewmon gave examples of children or young people who had been found brain dead but who had made some sort of recovery. He had written extensively about these occurrences.

Overall, I found his evidence interesting but where as in Archie’s case, the brain stem death test had not been able to be administered or relied upon, his evidence was not quite so relevant. Examples of ‘miracle’ recoveries again were not helpful. I noted that unsurprisingly he had not seen the scans in Archie’s case which showed a deterioration in the condition of his brain between 15th April 2022 and 31st May 2022. In all the circumstances, his evidence did not undermine the evidence I heard from the Archie’s treating clinicians as supported by the second opinions I read. The clinicians had immediate knowledge of Archie’s medical condition and were able to examine him, his notes and the scans, this put them in a far better position than Dr Shewmon.”

yes they did use a mri of another child of similar age to him as a reference point to show what should be happening to him and that with his scans it is not x
Found it in the June judgement

“ I read statements and heard evidence from specialists at the Royal London Hospital who had been responsible for Archie’s care including Dr P, the Consultant Paediatric Neuroradiologist who had organised the MRI scan of 31st May 2022, had seen the scans as they were shown ‘in real time’ on the monitor in the control room, reported on them, exhibited some of the images taken on that date and compared Archie’s brain with the brain of another child of a similar age without brain damage.”
 
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Archie’s mum did have someone independent but the judge was a bit scathing in her June judgment

“ The final witness was Dr Shewmon from the US. A man of expertise and considerable standing, instructed by the parents, he made a statement dated 5th June 2022, the day before the final hearing started. I was grateful for his industry. An undoubted expert in the field, he explained how the standard for death differed in the UK to that in the US. The US used whole brain death test whilst the UK concentrated on the brain stem.

Dr Shewmon gave examples of children or young people who had been found brain dead but who had made some sort of recovery. He had written extensively about these occurrences.

Overall, I found his evidence interesting but where as in Archie’s case, the brain stem death test had not been able to be administered or relied upon, his evidence was not quite so relevant. Examples of ‘miracle’ recoveries again were not helpful. I noted that unsurprisingly he had not seen the scans in Archie’s case which showed a deterioration in the condition of his brain between 15th April 2022 and 31st May 2022. In all the circumstances, his evidence did not undermine the evidence I heard from the Archie’s treating clinicians as supported by the second opinions I read. The clinicians had immediate knowledge of Archie’s medical condition and were able to examine him, his notes and the scans, this put them in a far better position than Dr Shewmon.”
This is the guy who has a very clear bias against brain stem death? Even if not, I think it was mentioned that he didn’t actually get to examine Archie which would be the whole point of an independent specialist I’d think

I was just thinking that one of the way these independent things could be bypassed is by selecting doctors that hold the same opinions as you or likely to come to the same conclusion. But then that’s probably not very independent, especially if they are benefitting from it somehow. It would probably be a lot easier to have some sort of criteria on who can act as independent doctor but some people will never be satisfied anyway
 
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This is the guy who has a very clear bias against brain stem death?

I was just thinking that one of the way these independent things could be bypassed is by selecting doctors that hold the same opinions as you or likely to come to the same conclusion. But then that’s probably not very independent, especially if they are benefitting from it somehow. It would probably be a lot easier to have some sort of criteria on who can act as independent doctor but some people will never be satisfied anyway
Yes sounds like they basically just found someone who agreed with their view.
 
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Yes it is


.


There is a thread on tattle where people tell of their own experience a tiny sample of the population but almost everyone seems to have a horror story including myself. The medical profession can and do close ranks and its very hard to win a case or in fact get a case started.
Why is this relevant at all to Archie’s case? There’s been no suspicion of medical negligence in the judges opinions
 
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Dr Shewmon has been involved in pretty much every high profile brain death case. He doesn't believe in brain death.
 
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Why is this relevant at all to Archie’s case? There’s been no suspicion of medical negligence in the judges opinions
Maybe you could follow the conversation and you would see why I said it.

You've just linked 3 articles which are referring to the study debunked in the article the poster above you linked. Repeating rubbish doesn't make it more true, I'm sorry. Medical mistakes happen but to say they are fatal more often than car crashes is just mad. Archie isnt in hospital because of a medical mistake.

My sister was in hospital three different wards and the errors were off the scale, it was so bad she did a DNR form just so she never had to go into hospital again.. I doubt very much my sister was just unlucky. in fact I know she wasnt as I moved into the hospital to be her carer and I see so many mistakes. . Mistakes happen every single day and hospitals and other medical places are no exception.
 
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It’s creepy.
If this was a scenario where meaningful recovery was possible he would be *mortified*. Can you imagine going back to school with this level of nonsense splashed over social media?

I hope his friends are ok as they can be, it must be very distressing.
 
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I learn something new every day! Will take this back to my clinical educator, could help my TBI patients. Thanks Hollie. 😁
All the years that people spend training for medical roles...when the real medics like 'Hollie / Sandra / Billy/ Tom / Dick / Harry / Any Randomer on Facebook' could have told them everything they needed to know. 🙃
 
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I really hope the Appeal court doesn't allow the appeal and this poor child's body is allowed to catch up with his brain, and die peacefully. I know that his mother would probably want the Supreme Court to hear their case, I know that the SC declined permission to appeal in the Charlie Gard case, hopefully they'd do the same here.

His army ghouls will vanish into the ether and find another case to latch onto, vile people.
 
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