The Archie Battersbee case

[Boring Monday]

So I thought this too after quickly searching online (I think we were looking at the same google hit ), but if you read the article in more detail, it talks about visualising the detail in teeth with MRI.

So I think teeth in general do show up, but MRI can't really be used clinically in dentistry and instead x-ray is used to visualise cavities etc.

I’ve been fibbed to

 

[MrsJones83]

I know that teeth sometimes don’t show up on conventional MRI’s … something to do with the mineral content? Could be something like that?

I’ve just read something that said they used an MRI scan of another boy of a similar age to compare to Archie’s scans, to show “normal” compared to how much damage had been done to his. Not sure how true this is though. If it is true, it wouldn’t surprise me that she is just refusing to understand

 

[stevenseagull]

You watch

Attempted battles to sue for damages

Some TV interviews where she campaigns for “Archies Law”

 

[nini01]

I’ve just read something that said they used an MRI scan of another boy of a similar age to compare to Archie’s scans, to show “normal” compared to how much damage had been done to his. Not sure how true this is though. If it is true, it wouldn’t surprise me that she is just refusing to understand

yes they did use a mri of another child of similar age to him as a reference point to show what should be happening to him and that with his scans it is not x

 

[GalaxyGirl70]

It's in cases like this that the NHS should be able to pass the bills over.... you want to spend £1000s per day keeping a corpse alive, you pay the bill.

If they were paying for Archie's care none of this would have happened, let's be honest.

 

[unimpeded]

You watch

Attempted battles to sue for damages

Some TV interviews where she campaigns for “Archies Law”

Where did you see this?

 

[Boring Monday]

Isn’t that what ‘smaller’ Hospitals do? Transfer to Centres of Excellence if they are erring on the side of caution and the CoE makes the final treatment decision?

You watch

Attempted battles to sue for damages

Some TV interviews where she campaigns for “Archies Law”

Did the mooted Charlie’s Law and Alfie’s Law ever come to anything?

 

[karmadrama]

It's in cases like this that the NHS should be able to pass the bills over.... you want to spend £1000s per day keeping a corpse alive, you pay the bill.

If they were paying for Archie's care none of this would have happened, let's be honest.

Sad but true

 

[KittyGhosts]

She really is thick and has the added bonus of total confidence in her opinions.
Why is it that I, and many lovely people I know, spend ages doubting themselves/their assumptions and always have room for reflection and acknowledge that new information can change opinions? Sometimes I wish I had this confidence in myself, my work and my opinions like these thick gobshites do.

 

[GirlWithThePearlEarhole]

Isn’t that what ‘smaller’ Hospitals do? Transfer to Centres of Excellence if they are erring on the side of caution and the CoE makes the final treatment decision?

Of course they do. I spent most of my nursing career at the Royal London and most of our traumatic head injuries came from out of area, especially with the advent of HEMS. District general hospitals just don’t have the expertise or the facilities to deal with these complex cases hence these specialities being concentrated in larger centres. I suspect Archie had deteriorated significantly between his time at Southend Hospital and his arrival at RLH. Neurosurgery at RLH is world-class but even they can’t bring the dead back to life.

 

[Merpedy]

I love that she keeps posting the stat screen as if an average person actually understands what’s going on

Also, grim question but given that he is technically dead, what’s stopping the body from decomposing? Is it the medications he is on?

And finally, having read through the thread I really feel for the nurses and doctors working on this and other similar cases. That’s a lot of mental strength

 

[ChastityDingle]

I love that she keeps posting the stat screen as if an average person actually understands what’s going on

Also, grim question but given that he is technically dead, what’s stopping the body from decomposing? Is it the medications he is on?

And finally, having read through the thread I really feel for the nurses and doctors working on this and other similar cases. That’s a lot of mental strength

I had the same thought.
And trying to deal with her and her 'army' whose combined IQ is probably about zero.

 

[grampositive]

I love that she keeps posting the stat screen as if an average person actually understands what’s going on

Also, grim question but given that he is technically dead, what’s stopping the body from decomposing? Is it the medications he is on?

And finally, having read through the thread I really feel for the nurses and doctors working on this and other similar cases. That’s a lot of mental strength

As long as oxygenated blood is being pumped around (made possible by ventilation and a cocktail of medications) an actual body will remain relatively ok (ignoring all the issues caused by struggling organs, remaining prone for months etc), and I believe there are cases of people being kept technically alive this way for years. Cardiac death is what causes decomposition - i.e, body goes cold, rigor mortis sets in.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

It's in cases like this that the NHS should be able to pass the bills over.... you want to spend £1000s per day keeping a corpse alive, you pay the bill.

If they were paying for Archie's care none of this would have happened, let's be honest.

That is a very slippery slope. The medical professions isn't without its mistakes in fact in the US the 3rd leading cause of death is medical error and I expect the UK is roughly the same. Is it right only the rich are able to fight ( rightly or wrongly) for loved ones.

This is a rare thing hence it being in the news if people are to trust not only the medical profession but our justice system then things like this should not be shut down they must run their course.

 

[unimpeded]

in fact in the US the 3rd leading cause of death is medical error

Is it?

Medical Error Is Not the Third Leading Cause of Death

In the first episode of the television show The Resident, a nurse tells the young protagonist that medical error is the third leading cause of death in the United States after cancer and heart disease. “They don’t want us talking about that,” she adds. This shocking and unforgettable line did...

www.mcgill.ca

 

[Purrrrrrr]

Is it?

Medical Error Is Not the Third Leading Cause of Death

In the first episode of the television show The Resident, a nurse tells the young protagonist that medical error is the third leading cause of death in the United States after cancer and heart disease. “They don’t want us talking about that,” she adds. This shocking and unforgettable line did...

www.mcgill.ca

Yes it is

Medical error—the third leading cause of death in the US

Medical error is not included on death certificates or in rankings of cause of death. Martin Makary and Michael Daniel assess its contribution to mortality and call for better reporting The annual list of the most common causes of death in the United States, compiled by the Centers for Disease...

www.bmj.com

Your Health Care May Kill You: Medical Errors - PubMed

Recent studies of medical errors have estimated errors may account for as many as 251,000 deaths annually in the United States (U.S)., making medical errors the third leading cause of death. Error rates are significantly higher in the U.S. than in other developed countries such as Canada...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

.

Study: Medical Malpractice the Third-Leading Cause of Death

Medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death according to a recent study by Johns Hopkins University.

www.spinalcord.com

There is a thread on tattle where people tell of their own experience a tiny sample of the population but almost everyone seems to have a horror story including myself. The medical profession can and do close ranks and its very hard to win a case or in fact get a case started.

 

[Merpedy]

This is a rare thing hence it being in the news if people are to trust not only the medical profession but our justice system then things like this should not be shut down they must run their course.

Thing is, a lot of her army clearly aren’t going to support or care for the justice system. They think it’s part of some big conspiracy

I’m all for exhausting the appeal process because that’s just a right she has but I do wonder if we may see some legal changes one day soon, at least to try and protect the child’s dignity and the staff themselves. Maybe changes to the process in general. Orinta’s mother was allowed to have two independent doctors check and they concluded the same thing so she made the decision to let her go, though I think she also collected money?

I also wonder if Hollie gets some sort of counselling for all of this. Someone mentioned that part of the reason it’s hard for her to come to terms with it is because Archie does look somewhat alive. That’s probably not something you can process on your own in that situation, and I know mental health services in this country suck but in these situations they seem essential

Granted, I’m still of the opinion that she’s in this for money. Saying in court that they want a ‘natural’ death but then telling her army that he’s going to be fine is a major change, and the whole financial model for this is basically based on Archie magically getting up one day. What’s the point in giving money to something where they will just remain in the same state?

 

[Weeder]

For those interested, I was 'red dot' trained, which is appendicular skeleton xray reading. I thought I'd go and look at an MRI to see what I could make out in terms of bone and teeth. It turns out not a lot.

The only view that I think you can see jaw in is the profile. I have no idea how Dr Hollie thinks she can count teeth. They're all superimposed over each other on xray anyway but even more so here. This is just a stock picture.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

Thing is, a lot of her army clearly aren’t going to support or care for the justice system. They think it’s part of some big conspiracy

I’m all for exhausting the appeal process because that’s just a right she has but I do wonder if we may see some legal changes one day soon, at least to try and protect the child’s dignity and the staff themselves. Maybe changes to the process in general. Orinta’s mother was allowed to have two independent doctors check and they concluded the same thing so she made the decision to let her go, though I think she also collected money?

I also wonder if Hollie gets some sort of counselling for all of this. Someone mentioned that part of the reason it’s hard for her to come to terms with it is because Archie does look somewhat alive. That’s probably not something you can process on your own in that situation, and I know mental health services in this country suck but in these situations they seem essential

Granted, I’m still of the opinion that she’s in this for money. Saying in court that they want a ‘natural’ death but then telling her army that he’s going to be fine is a major change, and the whole financial model for this is basically based on Archie magically getting up one day. What’s the point in giving money to something where they will just remain in the same state?

These things always bring the same reactions from the public ( both sides) normally once the court decides the action and support is switched off the parents will as a rule accept the situation and say their goodbyes.

 

[Merpedy]

These things always bring the same reactions from the public ( both sides) normally once the court decides the action and support is switched off the parents will as a rule accept the situation and say their goodbyes.

Think we may find that this particular case is the exception, though I’m happy to be proved wrong