The Archie Battersbee case #2

[Out the loop]

Glad I came across this thread as I won’t lie when I first read about Archie I was in agreement with his family purely from a point of being a mum aswell and would also do whatever it took to keep my child alive but reading the comments here and the transcripts from the court case I now realise it was a complete selfish way of thinking, when you see what is involved in Archies care you realise undignified the whole thing is for poor Archie, nobody wants to lose a child but it’s time to let him have a peaceful dignified end

 

[Weeder]

I was surprised to read they were baptised in the Anglican church. Whatever made me think they were Catholic? Not that it matters.

I did have a quick look at Catholic doctrine when I was chatting about if to a friend . As far as I know there's little that covers this sort of situation, I don't think Christian evangelists 2000 years ago really considered the finer points of brain death vs body death.

There's stuff about being in the arms of the creator and creeds about judgement and prayer, but I'd argue there's literally nothing that decrees a child's body should be kept in limbo. The Christian angle is her interpretation of the sanctity of life thing I think.

 

[super grateful]

I don't understand the god argument. Is anyone a devout Christian on here? Surely removing the artificial life support is the best way of testing god's will to see if he starts breathing on his own ?

I always thought this but I have seen relatives tell clinicians that if they remove life sustaining treatment that their souls will be condemned for eternal damnation, as they have “committed murder”. These have even been nice, non confrontational relatives who’s beliefs just come about during end of life discussions. It’s very difficult to manage but then often a quick discussion with the Chaplain and some education from them gets us around it, no one ends up in hell and the patient receives a peaceful, dignified death with beliefs included and everyone happy (as they can be).

 

[LennyBriscoe]

I’m binge reading the first thread (I’m not sure that’s such a good idea tbh) but I wanted to jump forward to say something.

Both my parents have passed away now but my dad had multiple hospital stays whereas my mum was ill for a short time before dying from cancer. My husband had a lengthy hospital stay and while I was in active alcoholism, I had many short stays in hospital. (Some nursing staff in my local A and E couldn’t hide their contemp at an addict draining resources by coming in after another withdrawal seizure). I have seen excellent hospital staff, poor hospital staff (one Consultant told my husband, in the day room, that he would never walk again) and a lot in the middle. I am under no illusion that everyone is the perfect practitioner and you only need to look at the NNC tribunals, MPTS and HCPTS websites to see that.

A lot of people who contributed to the first thread on Archie have first hand knowledge due to their careers and I appreciate that knowledge. I don’t pick up the vibe that everyone is coming down on the side of the hospital staff due to hero-worshipping. I think, if anything, people’s devastating and very real examples of when things have gone wrong may make them inclined to think the hospital are wrong automatically.

I am a mother, and it breaks my heart to think what it must be like for Hollie, Archie’s dad and extended family. But I just can’t get on board with what they’re doing. It must be so overwhelming and confusing and not all Doctors are blessed with a good bedside manner but it looks to me like they’re blocking out anything they don’t want to hear. The sad thing in all this is all the grief tourists on social media fuelling a mother who, in my opinion, does not have Archie’s best interests at heart. If my son was in Archie’s situation, I’d struggle to leave him to get changed much less so I could go on the sofa with Phil and Holly.

I have found the medical explanations here very educational and I don’t know what happens after you die or what is happening to Archie right now. . But I hope he is at peace.

ETA - my husband can walk!

 

[grampositive]

That bbc interview last night is madness.

The interviewer asks if she accepts that Archie's heart is still beating because he's being ventilitated.

Her response: 'In the womb a baby's heart starts beating first before the lungs function. So no I don't believe that.'

I've been trying to wrap my head around what on earth the CC mean by this (because it's clearly their argument, not hers). The best I've got is that they're claiming being ventilated to keep the hear functioning is natural, because in utero the lungs also don't need to function? It can't be that they're claiming people don't need functional lungs to live, because otherwise they'd be fine with ventiliation being removed. Honestly baffled.

I believe in everyone's right to appeal (and glad it exists) but it's just so frustrating when this is what she's basing her arguments on.

 

[GalaxyGirl70]

I commented in the last thread that surely there needs to be better protection for children like Archie under law. Her failure to accept his death has cost millions of pounds, both medically and legally that could have gone to helping children who had an actual chance at life. And I find that unforgivable.

 

[MidnightAura]

I can’t believe she she said yesterday something like she doesn’t believe in dignity in death for a child. I’m paraphrasing. But it’s her final few days with her son and she’s spending it doing interviews in the morning. Some of the barmy Army were planning on having a charity “let’s get Lit for Archie“ party charging for tickets today. I just find that abhorrent.

I’m not a fan of the dignity page but they pointed out that it was Archie’s family that made this whole circus public when three days after the accident they set up a go fund me. (This was in response to to his Mum complaining it shouldn’t be in the public eye which is kinda ironic when complaining in an interview!)

 

[grampositive]

The bonkers facebook posts from complete strangers continue....


Archie is aware

Radiant & relaxing

Champion & charming

Handsome & heartfelt

Inspirationally intelligent

Exceptionally entrancing

 

[MidnightAura]

The bonkers facebook posts from complete strangers continue....


Archie is aware

Radiant & relaxing

Champion & charming

Handsome & heartfelt

Inspirationally intelligent

Exceptionally entrancing

That’s so creepy. Also they clearly haven’t read the Court documents

 

[Bubblepink]

Deflect, deflect, deflect. My job involves helping people from low socio-economic backgrounds, like Hollie and the majority of the "army". Nothing is ever their fault. It's always the school's fault, the teacher's fault, the doctor's fault, the council's fault, the police's fault, the social worker's fault, the school nurse's fault, the government's fault. They refuse to take any responsibility for their actions, and lash out at anyone who offers constructive advice. It's no coincidence that most of these cases seem to involve people from that kind of background.

^This is absolutely spot on.
It says in that judges report about how Archie was excluded from school. Whilst is doesn’t go into detail it explains how ‘furious’ she was with with school/local authority. Because of course, it’s always someone else’s fault.

 

[tigerlilly_xx]

All ima say about hollie is, if my child was in the hospital, as sick as Archie is, and has a DNAR in place in place, been told he could pass at any given moment… ain’t no way on this earth I would leave his side.
no sit down interviews. No statements outside of court, no attending court, I’d leave it completely up to a rep.
And personally that tells me all I need to know about her.

 

[Satisfying Click]

I think she can't bear the idea that he'll just drift away and leave her, as stated by her resistance to turning off the ventilator, I think she sees it as a form of abandonment. Hayden's ruling on the mother-son dynamic was very enlightening.

 

[GiggleBee]

I wonder if a part of her already realises hes gone and thats why she's happy to leave him for the interviews?

 

[ChastityDingle]

I think she can't bear the idea that he'll just drift away and leave her, as stated by her resistance to turning off the ventilator, I think she sees it as a form of abandonment. Hayden's ruling on the mother-son dynamic was very enlightening.

I hate to say it but I think as long as the poor child is there attached to machines, her 'fame' will last.
And I presume she is also getting money from her pathetic supporters. All of that will be over, when the poor child is finally allowed to rest in peace.

I think it's appalling that she and others can make unfounded accusations about the judge and the staff at the hospital.
I tried reporting that awful army page to Facebook but would have to join it apparently and report specific comments and I won't be doing that.

 

[tigerlilly_xx]

She’s proven she’s loved being in the media before, with several newspaper appearances over the years also.
That’s not normal behaviour.

I think he was a very unhappy child, and couldn’t deal with it anymore.
horrid to say, but I wish she had found him 10/15 mins later, he would already be buried/cremated with extreme dignity, and the media circus, the grief tourists wouldn’t even be a thing. He wouldn’t have awful crap starting to fill up his lungs. It’s disgusting that this is being so dragged out, it’s disgusting that she’s allowing him to rot.

I got banned from the army Facebook page a few weeks ago, by pointing out how vile it was to have a money teddy, tied to a lamppost by a string around its neck.

 

[unimpeded]

Is anyone here in the Army group and can see if the planned party is still going ahead today (tonight?) ? Has anyone in the family confirmed whether they will be going?

 

[Merpedy]

I wonder if a part of her already realises hes gone and thats why she's happy to leave him for the interviews?

I think it's more with campaigning and raising awareness to the issue in the hope that some sort of pressure builds and the courts consider the case strongly or something tbh, maybe have Parliament intervene though I'm surprised I've not seen that avenue mentioned/aimed at more
Sort of the same logic as human rights campaigning only that makes a lot more sense because it's normally against a government policy and pressure is there to stop them doing something before a judicial review comes up

I'm not entirely sure that it's all for money and attention for her specifically. The Archie army page is impossible to get into and it's hard to find updates from Hollie without venturing into the likes of DFA. Even finding the family's personal accounts, if the average person who just has strong opinions on death in this context bothers to begin with, doesn't really give you anything
Also DFA is getting on my tits even more lately

 

[TooFarScone]

A bit of Nutella should bring him back to life

 

[bubbadabut]

A bit of Nutella should bring him back to life

View attachment 1421362

You know, part of me wishes the doctors and nurses would just up sticks and say "have it your way Hollie - bring in your Facebook huns with the Nutella and the choccie cake, and the lip balm, bring in the homeopaths, the reiki folk and the spiritualists. Let them perform their miracles".

The Army page has me wondering. Is this sort of thing unique to the UK and other English speaking countries? If a smiliar case happened in France, do you think there would be a frenzied group of women urging the mother to waft a little bit of Camembert to his lips?

 

[Boring Monday]

Yes, put Nutella into his mouth and upset the carefully titrated and curated diabetes and enzymes. What could possibly go wrong