Support for anyone that needs to vent #3

[BettyCrockerr]

No, it's a different company.

The situation has gotten far worse at my current job (the one you highlighted), so I am trying to exit as fast as I possibly can.

go to the interview for the SA1 role they are offering you. If you get offered the job, take it. It will get you out from where you are which is your main priority here. Then you can settle into a new company, find your feet and then internally start working towards the more senior role.

or you could just ask them for feedback as to why you’ve been asked to interview for the more junior role, citing your reasons as you’ve mentioned above. At least then you’ll know what they wanted that they feel you don’t have yet?

 

[judgejohndeed]

I was put forward for a Manager role that requires 5 / 6 years experience in the industry. I have 7.

I went through the first interview and they came back saying they would like me to progress to a second interview but with a more "junior" role in mind. This junior role is the exact same title I had when I left my previous company 3 years ago. These companies operate by a ranking progression every 3 years in the sense of (Associate 1-3, Senior Associate 1-3, Manager 1-3 etc). They want me to attend the second interview for a Senior Associate 1 position when I was already a Senior Associate 1 three years ago in a similar firm. Logically, I should be at manager level now especially as I have more than the required experience in the job description.

This is huge blow to my confidence because despite my experience and the fact that I interview well, I'm not deemed to be good enough for other than a junior role.

What level are you at in your current job? I would advocate for yourself, go back to them with this info - exactly what you said just here. You don't have to reject it now, just ask for an explanation and say you're confused given that you have more experience than required for the Manager role and you wouldn't expect to be taking a position at a level you worked at three years ago. They can only say no and you can still progress with the more junior role if you want to after that.

Your confidence is obviously affected by the way you're being treated in your current job but rather than them thinking you're not good enough, it might just be that in the first interview you didn't highlight the skills or experience they want for the manager role. That might not even be your own fault - sometimes interview questions are poorly written and don't elicit the information they want. If you go back and ask why they've decided this, they are likely to say 'you didn't have experience of AB or C' to which you can reply 'yes I do, here it is' and they may well reconsider.

 

[TheGlossy]

What level are you at in your current job? I would advocate for yourself, go back to them with this info - exactly what you said just here. You don't have to reject it now, just ask for an explanation and say you're confused given that you have more experience than required for the Manager role and you wouldn't expect to be taking a position at a level you worked at three years ago. They can only say no and you can still progress with the more junior role if you want to after that.

Your confidence is obviously affected by the way you're being treated in your current job but rather than them thinking you're not good enough, it might just be that in the first interview you didn't highlight the skills or experience they want for the manager role. That might not even be your own fault - sometimes interview questions are poorly written and don't elicit the information they want. If you go back and ask why they've decided this, they are likely to say 'you didn't have experience of AB or C' to which you can reply 'yes I do, here it is' and they may well reconsider.

Unfortunately, they did not ask me any managerial questions during the interview. All questions were basic questions surrounding my technical knowledge. There was therefore no way to highlight any potential skills that could work towards a Manager position.

I ended up saying I am still interested in moving forward with the process but would like to have some clarification as to what Senior Associate level we are talking about (if it is 1 or 3) and highlighted the fact I was already a Senior Associate 1 in a previous role three years ago and have since gained further industry experience.

The recruiter did me a bit dirty because she just admitted she had put me forward to a Senior Associate role even though on Workday, the application clearly states "Manager" and I had confirmed this with her prior to the interview. Effectively, I will also be reducing my salary because she put me forward for the exact same salary but without the bonus since Senior Associates do not get bonuses (vs my current company which pays me a decent bonus).

 

[judgejohndeed]

@TheGlossy would you be happy taking a role at a level you've done previously? The only thing worse than a bad job is when you leave one bad job to take something else you're not happy with, then you're still looking or unhappy. When they come back to you with the info you've asked for I would explain that you were told it was a Manager level position and let them know that the recruiter misled you. Be very clear that you have more experience than they wanted and ask if there is a Manager level role available and if you can interview for that as you wouldn't expect to take a lower level position with a lower salary at this stage of your career. If there isn't and you still want to go for this role, make sure you ask about progression to the Manager level and that they will support you in doing that.

 

[TheGlossy]

@TheGlossy would you be happy taking a role at a level you've done previously? The only thing worse than a bad job is when you leave one bad job to take something else you're not happy with, then you're still looking or unhappy. When they come back to you with the info you've asked for I would explain that you were told it was a Manager level position and let them know that the recruiter misled you. Be very clear that you have more experience than they wanted and ask if there is a Manager level role available and if you can interview for that as you wouldn't expect to take a lower level position with a lower salary at this stage of your career. If there isn't and you still want to go for this role, make sure you ask about progression to the Manager level and that they will support you in doing that.

Thank you so much.

Honestly, I do not think I would be happy to move into a lower level I previously held. I've gained experience since and it's almost been three years. I've been relayed to junior roles on paper doing managers' work my entire career. It was fine at the beginning, but after 7+ years, it is no longer acceptable.

It would not make sense if I wanted to move companies after joining this one. How do you explain you left your role to join another company at a lower position you previously held years prior if it's not for a career change? It will just translate into lack of direction and job hopping.

The recruiter told me even if on paper I will have the Senior Associate role, I could be placed on projects where I will have managerial responsibilities. It is the exact same thing I was told when I tried to negotiate my current role from hell and now I'm severely underpaid doing everyone's work without the title that goes with it.

If they come back with the Senior Associate 1 confirmation (which means another 3 years before I make it to Manager there), it is a dead-end. If it is Senior Associate 3 (which means I could be at Manager level by this time next year), I'm willing to consider.

I sold myself short in my current role and I've learned from this. I'm not doing this to myself again.

 

[BettyCrockerr]

Thank you so much.

Honestly, I do not think I would be happy to move into a lower level I previously held. I've gained experience since and it's almost been three years. I've been relayed to junior roles on paper doing managers' work my entire career. It was fine at the beginning, but after 7+ years, it is no longer acceptable.

It would not make sense if I wanted to move companies after joining this one. How do you explain you left your role to join another company at a lower position you previously held years prior if it's not for a career change? It will just translate into lack of direction and job hopping.

The recruiter told me even if on paper I will have the Senior Associate role, I could be placed on projects where I will have managerial responsibilities. It is the exact same thing I was told when I tried to negotiate my current role from hell and now I'm severely underpaid doing everyone's work without the title that goes with it.

If they come back with the Senior Associate 1 confirmation (which means another 3 years before I make it to Manager there), it is a dead-end. If it is Senior Associate 3 (which means I could be at Manager level by this time next year), I'm willing to consider.

I sold myself short in my current role and I've learned from this. I'm not doing this to myself again.

what industry are you in???

 

[judgejohndeed]

Thank you so much.

Honestly, I do not think I would be happy to move into a lower level I previously held. I've gained experience since and it's almost been three years. I've been relayed to junior roles on paper doing managers' work my entire career. It was fine at the beginning, but after 7+ years, it is no longer acceptable.

It would not make sense if I wanted to move companies after joining this one. How do you explain you left your role to join another company at a lower position you previously held years prior if it's not for a career change? It will just translate into lack of direction and job hopping.

The recruiter told me even if on paper I will have the Senior Associate role, I could be placed on projects where I will have managerial responsibilities. It is the exact same thing I was told when I tried to negotiate my current role from hell and now I'm severely underpaid doing everyone's work without the title that goes with it.

If they come back with the Senior Associate 1 confirmation (which means another 3 years before I make it to Manager there), it is a dead-end. If it is Senior Associate 3 (which means I could be at Manager level by this time next year), I'm willing to consider.

I sold myself short in my current role and I've learned from this. I'm not doing this to myself again.

Definitely don't sell yourself short. Don't take a role you're not happy with because you're unhappy in your current role and your confidence might be beaten down at the moment. You deserve better and you will get it. I would take what the recruiter says now with a pinch of salt tbh, they're saying there's managerial responsibilities but they didn't even tell you the actual role they'd put you forward for. They just want to place you and get their commission. If you can, just deal with the company now. They obviously like you if they want to give you another interview, you just need to sell yourself a little bit more and I think if you ham up that the recruiter misled you and act a bit surprised like 'why on earth would I take a lower role that I've already done? It makes no sense?' kind of thing, they might reconsider.

 

[TheGlossy]

what industry are you in???

Finance - this role is in consulting though.

Definitely don't sell yourself short. Don't take a role you're not happy with because you're unhappy in your current role and your confidence might be beaten down at the moment. You deserve better and you will get it. I would take what the recruiter says now with a pinch of salt tbh, they're saying there's managerial responsibilities but they didn't even tell you the actual role they'd put you forward for. They just want to place you and get their commission. If you can, just deal with the company now. They obviously like you if they want to give you another interview, you just need to sell yourself a little bit more and I think if you ham up that the recruiter misled you and act a bit surprised like 'why on earth would I take a lower role that I've already done? It makes no sense?' kind of thing, they might reconsider.

Exactly. I don't trust this recruiter at all. It's obvious she knew all along what role she had me apply to and knew should be drop the lower position bomb somewhere between the first and second interview. The first interview involved no managerial questions, which was a clear sign myself and the interviewers did not have the same role in mind.

I will try to sell myself properly during the second interview. Perhaps the second interview will showcase my true skills.

 

[xx3221]

First time posting on this thread.
It's kind of an AIBU but couldn't see a thread for those.

My children (tweens) are struggling to adapt to a change in family dynamics. My brother has a girlfriend with a daughter (kind of a step cousin to my children-they do not have any real cousins)
The daughter is quite an attention seeker (split custody so limited time with both parents and spoilt rotten) my children are not enjoying her company.
My family are not wanting to be unwelcoming and so are turning a blind eye to her behaviour even when it's at the expense of my children. My children told me they miss time with the grandparents without her being there but when I brought it up I was told my children are spoilt and need to adjust to the fact they now have to share.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think my parents might make time for my children when she isn't there but again I was told my parents have given lots if time to me and now it's time for my brother.
It's affecting my children...am I wrong?

How long has your brother been with her?

 

[nosy_lurker]

How long has your brother been with her?

A year but its moved fast-they live together

 

[xx3221]

A year but its moved fast-they live together

You are not in the wrong at all. They are not your brother's girlfriends daughters grandparents, they are your children's grandparents. It's ridiculous for your family to say that they have dedicated a lot of time to you so now they can't make extra time for their grandchildren. I would honestly say maybe take your children to your parents when she isn't there so they get time with them? Is there a big age gap between her and your children?

It would be way more understandable if they had been together for a long time or since she was a baby, but that just isn't the case.

 

[nosy_lurker]

You are not in the wrong at all. They are not your brother's girlfriends daughters grandparents, they are your children's grandparents. It's ridiculous for your family to say that they have dedicated a lot of time to you so now they can't make extra time for their grandchildren. I would honestly say maybe take your children to your parents when she isn't there so they get time with them? Is there a big age gap between her and your children?

It would be way more understandable if they had been together for a long time or since she was a baby, but that just isn't the case.

Thank you-I didn't think I was but then you can't think straight when your children are hurting can you-my protector instincts cloud my judgement.
She is similar age to my children-I naively thought they would all be friends and get along and that the attention seeking was insecurities that would settle but its not looking good.
Thanks again

 

[BettyCrockerr]

First time posting on this thread.
It's kind of an AIBU but couldn't see a thread for those.

My children (tweens) are struggling to adapt to a change in family dynamics. My brother has a girlfriend with a daughter (kind of a step cousin to my children-they do not have any real cousins)
The daughter is quite an attention seeker (split custody so limited time with both parents and spoilt rotten) my children are not enjoying her company.
My family are not wanting to be unwelcoming and so are turning a blind eye to her behaviour even when it's at the expense of my children. My children told me they miss time with the grandparents without her being there but when I brought it up I was told my children are spoilt and need to adjust to the fact they now have to share.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think my parents might make time for my children when she isn't there but again I was told my parents have given lots if time to me and now it's time for my brother.
It's affecting my children...am I wrong?

Your brother has taken on responsibility of this child as his own. Your parents are doing the right thing in supporting that and giving time to the child. Yes, it’s a shift in the family dynamics and yes maybe she is a bit spoilt or acting up but she’s a child. It will take time for everyone to get used to eachother and find a balance. You just sound like you are being a bit jealous of the fact that their focus isn’t now solely on you and your kids…..
Would you be so put out if this was your brothers newborn biological child? No, you wouldn’t.

 

[Kim Mild]

First time posting on this thread.
It's kind of an AIBU but couldn't see a thread for those.

My children (tweens) are struggling to adapt to a change in family dynamics. My brother has a girlfriend with a daughter (kind of a step cousin to my children-they do not have any real cousins)
The daughter is quite an attention seeker (split custody so limited time with both parents and spoilt rotten) my children are not enjoying her company.
My family are not wanting to be unwelcoming and so are turning a blind eye to her behaviour even when it's at the expense of my children. My children told me they miss time with the grandparents without her being there but when I brought it up I was told my children are spoilt and need to adjust to the fact they now have to share.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think my parents might make time for my children when she isn't there but again I was told my parents have given lots if time to me and now it's time for my brother.
It's affecting my children...am I wrong?

I think your parents think they are doing the right thing towards the 'step daughter ' as in they have welcomed her into the family and their behaviour is probably due to then feeling sorry for the girl , and not thinking it is their place to discipline her.

You are justified in being pissed off by their words and behaviour towards your children. New children in the family don't replace the existing ones. Your patience attention needs to expand to accommodate any new arrival

 

[strawberrysunshine_x]

Your brother has taken on responsibility of this child as his own. Your parents are doing the right thing in supporting that and giving time to the child. Yes, it’s a shift in the family dynamics and yes maybe she is a bit spoilt or acting up but she’s a child. It will take time for everyone to get used to eachother and find a balance. You just sound like you are being a bit jealous of the fact that their focus isn’t now solely on you and your kids…..
Would you be so put out if this was your brothers newborn biological child? No, you wouldn’t.

I don’t have anything to say other than I absolutely love Betty Crockerrs advice every time she pops up on these threads.

 

[Bianca Del Rio]

I don’t have anything to say other than I absolutely love Betty Crockerrs advice every time she pops up on these threads.

Someone needs to start an “Ask Betty..” thread immediately if not sooner. Post your problem and run for cover.

 

[nosy_lurker]

Your brother has taken on responsibility of this child as his own. Your parents are doing the right thing in supporting that and giving time to the child. Yes, it’s a shift in the family dynamics and yes maybe she is a bit spoilt or acting up but she’s a child. It will take time for everyone to get used to eachother and find a balance. You just sound like you are being a bit jealous of the fact that their focus isn’t now solely on you and your kids…..
Would you be so put out if this was your brothers newborn biological child? No, you wouldn’t.

I don't think the fact she isn't a newborn biological child would change how 'put out' I am. If anything I thought a child similar age to my own would be better as can do things together. I think the only thing that not being biological changes is my mum is scared to 'tell her off' as she's not hers and doesn't want to upset her and my brothers girlfriend. I can understand why I come across jealous-we probably are a bit as it has always been all about my children.
I suppose what I was hoping for was that there would be room for everyone. When you have a second child you don't forget about your first one, there's room for everyone but this isn't happening here.

I think your parents think they are doing the right thing towards the 'step daughter ' as in they have welcomed her into the family and their behaviour is probably due to then feeling sorry for the girl , and not thinking it is their place to discipline her.

You are justified in being pissed off by their words and behaviour towards your children. New children in the family don't replace the existing ones. Your patience attention needs to expand to accommodate any new arrival

Exactly my thoughts-thanks

 

[BettyCrockerr]

I don't think the fact she isn't a newborn biological child would change how 'put out' I am. If anything I thought a child similar age to my own would be better as can do things together. I think the only thing that not being biological changes is my mum is scared to 'tell her off' as she's not hers and doesn't want to upset her and my brothers girlfriend. I can understand why I come across jealous-we probably are a bit as it has always been all about my children.
I suppose what I was hoping for was that there would be room for everyone. When you have a second child you don't forget about your first one, there's room for everyone but this isn't happening here.


Exactly my thoughts-thanks

But your trying to exclude her. You want your parents to separate themselves to spend time with your children only. You wouldn’t be suggesting that if this was your biological niece. Why not just embrace this girl into the family - stop trying to make it an “us & them” situation. Encourage your children to include her, tantrums and all because let’s face it im sure your own kids aren’t immune to the odd tantrum or acting spoilt from time to time are they?! Stop making a drama out of this, it isn’t one and if you carry on acting like your kids should take priority or that your kids should have exclusive access to their grandparents you will end up causing problems within the family for real

Someone needs to start an “Ask Betty..” thread immediately if not sooner. Post your problem and run for cover.

Ah I think someone tried to do this before and admin removed it unfortunately never mind, I can still put my two pennies in this way!!

 

[TheGlossy]

An update on my hiring crisis I mentioned yesterday:

The recruiter said the "Manager" role indicated on the application website was only used for "administrative" purposes and was not reflective of the actual level I would be considered for. She said it was up to the company to interview me and then judge my level based on that. Except again, I was not at all assessed on managerial topics, so how can they judge if I am not equipped enough for a manager role?

Anyhow, she failed to mention this before the first interview and is now trying to backtrack. She said she understands it is "important to get clarification on all aspects". If she understands this well, then why did she fail to inform me the Manager title in the application was bogus? Yet she said there's been no change in the application.

On top of this, the Manager role requires 5/6 years experience in the industry. I have 7+ and they want me to prepare a business case for the junior role for a 2h interview. Not happening. I'm already selling myself short by going to a junior role and if on top of this I need to do a business case, certainly not. I've better things to do with my time.

I would have a hard time justifying to any prospective employer why I left a junior associate role three years ago only to come back again at the same level. It makes no sense whatsoever. The recruiter said this is a highly sought after company - well, breaking news, my career has only been in top-tier sought after firms including a competitor, so this argument does not impress me. I know what working at this level will be like - nothing different from my current company (long hours, mistreatment, work piling). I will wind up frustrated after a year that my career has not progressed. My current situation is bad enough - I don't want to wind up in the same pickle but in a different company. The application is getting withdrawn.

 

[BettyCrockerr]

An update on my hiring crisis I mentioned yesterday:

The recruiter said the "Manager" role indicated on the application website was only used for "administrative" purposes and was not reflective of the actual level I would be considered for. She said it was up to the company to interview me and then judge my level based on that. Except again, I was not at all assessed on managerial topics, so how can they judge if I am not equipped enough for a manager role?

Anyhow, she failed to mention this before the first interview and is now trying to backtrack. She said she understands it is "important to get clarification on all aspects". If she understands this well, then why did she fail to inform me the Manager title in the application was bogus? Yet she said there's been no change in the application.

On top of this, the Manager role requires 5/6 years experience in the industry. I have 7+ and they want me to prepare a business case for the junior role for a 2h interview. Not happening. I'm already selling myself short by going to a junior role and if on top of this I need to do a business case, certainly not. I've better things to do with my time.

I would have a hard time justifying to any prospective employer why I left a junior associate role three years ago only to come back again at the same level. It makes no sense whatsoever. The recruiter said this is a highly sought after company - well, breaking news, my career has only been in top-tier sought after firms including a competitor, so this argument does not impress me. I know what working at this level will be like - nothing different from my current company (long hours, mistreatment, work piling). I will wind up frustrated after a year that my career has not progressed. My current situation is bad enough - I don't want to wind up in the same pickle but in a different company. The application is getting withdrawn.

Why are you still dealing with this recruitment consultant???? You have a direct contact within the company - cut the recruitment agent out and go directly to the company and ask for clarification from the horses mouth