Real Life Crime and Murder #4 goss

[Sunshinegal]

That letter got me choked up.
I’m not sure if there is an afterlife or something similar but if there is, I just want Bernadette to know I hear her, we all hear her, we all believe her and she is strong and beautiful and so, so brave.

I'm with you there. I hope wherever she is she knows that we are all on her side. She is believed

 

[dxo]

He has not one ounce of sadness in his eyes... I don't know why but it reminds me a lot of the screenshots of Chris Watts in his interviews with the press..

When the news first broke, seeing him do those interviews my mind went straight to Chris Watts... something doesn't sit right at all about him.

 

[Summer0408]

The plot thickens.

Brit murder victim Caroline Crouch’s husband quizzed again by Greek cops

BRITISH murder victim Caroline Crouch’s hubby has been quizzed again by Greek cops. He has also been interviewed by a psychologist after detectives struggled to get a breakthrough in the investigat…

www.thesun.co.uk

He has not one ounce of sadness in his eyes... I don't know why but it reminds me a lot of the screenshots of Chris Watts in his interviews with the press..

 

[Eureka]

I’m surprised about the 13 year old being charged. I suppose it will all come out but I wonder how much a child that age could have stood up to the parents who killed his brother.

 

[Smallpotato]

Broken homes, poverty, feral kids left to their own devices, getting involved with gangs, drugs, the lure of easy money, huge influence of culture from the USA, running around acting and talking like they're gangsters, tit for tat killings, perceived respect. That's what I see on social media and in the trials I follow.

And no, I don't know what the answer is.

But you're right, it is across all age groups now. I don't think I'm wrong in thinking a lot of men (because it is mainly men) take a knife out with them now on a night out.

There’s a channel 4 documentary, I want to say it’s 24hrs in police custody, and it covers the effects of knife crime and how it effects young male adults. As a mother to a little boy who was considering moving back to the city… no way after this show. Horrified me.

My husband grew up in inner city Birmingham and was mugged on a bus when he was 16. Took his phone, bus pass, wallet, money. He was threatened with a knife and no one helped him. He told me for years after that he carried a knife, and this just makes me sick to my stomach. My husband is a really gentle, sweet, educated bloke and the fact he had to carry a knife because he was scared of being mugged again just makes my stomach ache. He said he felt as if he had no choice.

I’d never move to a big city, despite me missing my home and the opportunities that come with being close/in a city.

 

[Very traditional]

How was that poor girl failed so badly by everyone around her. It sounds like her parents were pimping her out and everyone knew about it but no one intervened

Her case was discussed at length on one of the earlier threads. I've not watched the documentary I think you're talking about so can't comment on it (the C5 one from a couple of years ago - her vile family also appeared weeping and wailing on The Jeremy Show Show at one point and I don't want to see them again) but I will just repeat again this article from The Times, which is from 2013, many years before the documentary, which I think says it all. And yes, I agree her case will never be solved.

"There goes Charlene Downes, ten years ago today, skipping towards the bright lights of Blackpool. Never to be seen again.

It was late autumn, the final night of the season. During the evening, the 14-year-old was spotted in a bar at the seaside resort’s North Pier. Someone bought her a vodka and Coke. She left with a young friend. They headed for a dark, waste-strewn passageway lined on each side by the rear entrances to several takeaway food premises.

This was “Paki Alley”, where chips and alcohol were in plentiful supply for children smart enough to know that one good turn deserved another. Arcades and kebab shops were a cheap escape from teenage boredom but on that particular night, November 1, 2003, a crime took place which meant that Charlene never came home.

A decade on and the unsolved murder has barely registered with the mainstream public. By contrast, Britain’s far-right parties have taken such an interest in the Downes case that banners demanding “Justice for Charlene” were raised on football terraces by sections of hardcore fans.

Their focus was triggered by a 2007 criminal trial at which it was alleged that the child was killed by a Jordanian kebab-shop owner who later disposed of her body with the help of his Iranian business partner. No remains were discovered.

Lacking concrete proof of murder, the prosecution was built on hearsay evidence from an unreliable witness and on a police officer’s transcription of low-quality recordings from bugs placed in the flat and car of one of the suspects. Its accuracy was repeatedly challenged by the defence.

On the eve of a scheduled 2008 retrial, after the first hearing led to a hung jury, the case collapsed. Both defendants were acquitted. The far-right’s conspiracy theory — dark-skinned men getting away with the rape and murder of a white girl — gained strength in 2011 when it emerged that an unpublished police report identified more than 60 girls who were groomed for sex by Asian workers at a cluster of takeaways.

Today, Charlene’s disappearance will be marked by a memorial service in the town, organised by the British National Party. Tomorrow, its supporters will stage a demonstration against “Muslim grooming gangs”. Leading the tributes will be her parents, Robert and Karen Downes. They are cherished icons of the nationalist movement. But they sit on a hollow throne.

The truth, hidden until now, is that so many men of all creeds and colours were suspected of sexual offences against Charlene that when she first went missing the police did not know which way to turn. One of the trails led directly inside the Downes family home. Confidential witness statements, social services records and internal police reports reveal that the child protection authorities first became concerned about Charlene’s home environment in 1989, the year she was born.

Then, the family were living in the West Midlands. Police and social services launched a joint investigation because a convicted rapist, jailed three times for buggery and indecent assaults on two young girls, was a regular visitor to the house and was allowed unsupervised access to a child.

Mr Downes, now 52, was “strongly advised” by social services not to allow the man inside his home but the visits were suspected to have continued. A witness told the authorities she saw the rapist “fondling [a child] in the house and that the parents were present”. They deny that any such incident happened.

In 1998, when Charlene was 9, she and another girl alleged that they were being sexually abused by a man “trusted by Mr and Mrs Downes to take them to school”. He was charged with rape but the case collapsed when the other girl failed to give evidence.

Charlene’s parents told The Times that the man seemed trustworthy because “he had a girlfriend”. They rejected a police officer’s report that they “had some knowledge of the abuse but failed to act”.

The family moved to Blackpool in 1999 after Walsall social services threatened to prosecute the parents for wilful neglect and to have the children taken into care. In the North West, a succession of men were introduced to the family after meeting Mr Downes in local pubs. Some stayed overnight or even longer.

They included a man in his 50s who described Charlene, then 13, as his girlfriend, and a 40-year-old who later admitted to police that he paid her to carry out a sex act. Three days after Charlene vanished, a 34-year-old man, staying with the Downes family while on bail, was jailed for crimes that included indecent assaults on three young girls. He admitted indecently touching the missing child.

An account of life inside the Downes home came from an environmental health officer, visiting one morning on council business, who walked into a downstairs room to find Charlene, then 12, lying on a bed in a “skimpy” nightgown. Lying alongside her was a man in his 60s. The girl jumped up and “started to scoop a number of pound coins off the bed”. The man, “shaken and trembling”, began “pulling his trouser zip up and fastening his belt”.

In a witness statement, the council employee described his shock at “the situation I had stumbled into”. He said Charlene was quick to tell him that “it’s OK — he’s my uncle”. Mr Downes then entered the room, apparently unconcerned, and explained that the man was “a family friend”. The incident was reported to social services but “it was decided not to pursue the matter further due to lack of evidence, lack of co-operation from the family and no complaint from Charlene”.

Her parents described it as a misunderstanding. Mrs Downes blamed the council worker for being too “nosey”. They said that the man on the bed with Charlene was “a lovely, nice old man” who had merely been adjusting his trousers. Mr Downes said he did not know, at the time, that any of the men he brought home had a sexual interest in children.

The couple did not comment on a hospital doctor’s report from June 2000, when Charlene was 11, warning of suspected sexual abuse, nor on the 13 visits she made to an NHS walk-in centre over a 12-month period in 2002-03, when she regularly sought help for sexual health problems.

Her mother insisted this week that her husband always sought to protect their daughter. She described the documents seen by this newspaper as “widely exaggerated and untrue”.

This is the mother of a child who apparently made regular visits, aged 11, to a Salvation Army soup kitchen and was seen dancing for men outside a pub, aged 12. Her parents explained that she enjoyed going “to church” and often danced to “music that she liked”. It was against this background that Charlene began swapping sexual favours, during the final months of her life, with Asian and Arab takeaway workers.

The Times understands that, three months before she vanished, she was one of two girls driven by Asian men from Blackpool to a lay-by in Blackburn. There, at midnight, she walked down an alley with one of the men, returning an hour later. Back in Blackpool, she was handed an envelope. Her friend asked what was inside and was told it was “what I got for what I did in Blackburn”.

Another Asian man is known to have taken her to Manchester in an old BMW less than a week before she disappeared. Neither incident was connected to the two men who stood trial over her murder.

It can also be revealed that a week before she went missing, a white man with the “motive and opportunity to murder Charlene” gave her £40. He met her again on her final night. A police report described him as a “compulsive, perverted paedophile” living in “a squalid flat knee-deep in pornographic material of all types including those featuring young children”.

Lancashire Constabulary today announces a new investigation, pledging “an open mind” about the murder. Its inquiry will not be short of suspects. Some are white; some are not.

Evidence shows that Charlene Downes was failed throughout her life. Until now, she has also been failed in death. The reports suggest that she was let down by her parents, by care professionals, by dozens of sex abusers, by her killers and by a police force that mismanaged a murder inquiry.

Today, the BNP distorts her story to sow seeds of divisive malevolence. Too little cared for, too little mourned. She deserves better."

 

[Droosie123]

Some justice for Bernadette: https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk...-found-guilty-of-murdering-bernadette-3323724

'Today a unanimous verdict was delivered by the jury, with Scott Walker found guilty of murder.'

'Scott Walker was convicted of murder and two counts of perverting the course of justice, relating to knowing or believing she was dead. The jury were not asked to deliver verdicts on the other two perverting the course of justice counts, as they were ‘alternative’ counts.

No verdicts have been given for the charges against Sarah Walker, and the jury were told that a majority verdict would be acceptable for those counts. This means that a verdict on which at least 10 jurors are agreed can be taken.'

Thank heavens for that. Poor poor girl.

 

[NeverEnough]

Don’t know if this has been commented on previously.

Babes in the Wood: Killer's ex-girlfriend jailed for perjury

Jennifer Johnson lied in court to protect Russell Bishop after he murdered two nine-year-old girls.

www.bbc.co.uk

In my opinion this woman is almost as despicable as Russell Bishop himself. Imagine lying in court to defend a double child murderer because you were either too insecure or too selfish to be alone.

 

[potatowaffles]

Almost a little surprised he’s come out and admitted it, even if the evidence was all stacked against him.

So so horrible, I hope at least now the family can get justice.

I wonder what his partners wife who went to the papers talking about how fantastic he was is thinking now

 

[Treesy19]

I can’t decide in my armchair opinion that is, whether Sarah was the first murder victim. What I do believe is the “land” bought really does raise my suspicion that he would repeat it.

 

[Pickminy]

I said to my husband from the day this case was first reported something just doesn't add up. Watch this space....

 

[Et tu Brute?]

You’d be surprised and horrified what 13 year olds and younger are capable of. My job has opened my eyes and not in a good way. Offences against children by other children are extremely common. Due to the age of criminal responsibility, many are not recorded as crimes and reporting restrictions mean most of it isn’t publicised. My heart breaks for Logan’s family, I can’t even view the pictures of him

 

[MissTeddy]

It’s the same with Levi Bellfield - it’s easy to assume all murders are committed by serial killers. The more sinister truth is there are ordinary men walking around, living their lives who have committed murder. But with the DNA database- one day the knock on the door will come for them.

 

[AlanBanan]

The case of Bobbie Jo Stinnett is a very hard case.

A woman named Lisa Montogomery had previous history of faking pregnancies with her second husband and she was pretending to be pregnant once again and even going as far as using those bump pads.

She struck up a friendship with Bobbi jo on a dog breeding forum and Bobbi was a well known breeder but was also expecting a baby and they both bonded over being pregnant and their love of dogs. Several members were already weary of Lisa as she had been caught out in lies before, but at the same time who cares?

As the months went on Lisa got worried as she had to produce a baby somehow, so she made a fake appointment under an alias with Bobbi. Told her husband she was meeting Up with friends and family. Drove to Bobbi’s state. Then when she got there she forced her way in, beat up and strangled a heavily pregnant Bobbi until she was unconscious and cut the baby out Bobbis abdomen. Bobbis autopsy showed she was still alive during the csection and even after it.

Lisa took the baby, drove back to her state, told her husband she gave birth whilst she was out of town in a women’s clinic. Her husband was surprised there was even a baby and said before she had a history of faking pregnancies.

The FBI ended up doing an amber alert on the car that Lisa was driving and they traced it back to her. When they found her she was already having the brand new day old baby outside and at church showing the baby off like a toy. They questioned her on where she had given birth (they already knew it was her) and they caught her out because they told her that women’s clinic has no record of you and that we know you’re the woman who was speaking to Bobbi online.

The crime was so horrific that she was the first woman executed by the federal government in 70 years and I think she was executed January of this year.

Even her own kids from a previous marriage agreed with her getting the death penalty.

 

[Dollylovesshoes]

The plot thickens.

Brit murder victim Caroline Crouch’s husband quizzed again by Greek cops

BRITISH murder victim Caroline Crouch’s hubby has been quizzed again by Greek cops. He has also been interviewed by a psychologist after detectives struggled to get a breakthrough in the investigat…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[Chrisxo]

Just saw this on fb... doesn’t sound good? They must have some evidence to charge her with gbh?

Just saw this on fb... doesn’t sound good? They must have some evidence to charge her with gbh?

A comment on the post... Defo doesn’t look good. One to keep an eye on

 

[Blue pumpkin]

At the time a friend of mine lived two streets away from where this crime occured.
In Lewisham in 2008, the double murder of two French research students, Laurent Bonomo and Gabriel Ferez in the flat they were renting. They were tortured for three hours and then murdered in by Dano Sonnex and Nigel Farmer who were high on drink and drugs.

It began as a burgarly but they were disturbed by the students. They took their banks cards and was able to get money from one card but not the other and that was the reason why they were tortured and murdered. The police described the crime scene as 'unimaginable horror'

 

[Be More Pacific]

Thanks for replying and your original post is so informative! Do you have a career in criminal justice or just have an interest?

No, just an interest I'm afraid. I like to understand how the judge's come to their decisions and the constraints they have to work with (sentencing guidelines) so I educated myself.

Honestly, the judges get so much flack from the Facebook vigilantes and Daily Mail maniacs but remember they usually see these defendants at very close quarters over several months especially if there is a trial. When you read their sentencing remarks (they are published in high profile cases) they are so in depth and show that they really have the measure of these people. I bet they would love to be handing out massive sentences and whole life orders to some of the scumbags they see but they can't, as they would just be appealed, and that costs time and money and undermines the justice system.

I agree, I think he will too. Excellent points about the life sentencing. He probably knows that admitting his guilt is going to ensure he doesn’t spend the remainder of his days in prison. That or like you said, he will commit suicide.

Imagine being on jury duty in this case though. You won’t be able to zone out even for a second! I imagine there will be so much evidence to discuss

It's just me thinking aloud really. I personally think the case warrants a whole life order because of all the aggravating factors and, if he did try and burn her body, that's another you can add in there. I think everything added up makes the guilty plea irrelevant.

"Aggravating factors that may be relevant include:

a) a significant degree of planning or premeditation
b) the victim was vulnerable because of age or disability
c) mental or physical suffering inflicted on the victim before death
d) the abuse of a position of trust
e) the use of duress or threats against another person to facilitate the commission of the offence
f) the victim was providing a public service or performing a public duty
g) concealment, destruction or dismemberment of the body "

I've ticked the ones that I think apply here.

Sentencing - Mandatory life sentences in Murder cases | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

 

[Theninth]

The case in Greece with Caroline Crouch sounds so bad. Why wasn't her husband killed? If you kill one wouldn't you kill the other to stop them talking about what happened? It doesn't make sense.

How long had they been together? I ask as it is very creepy a guy in his mid 30s married a teenager and got her pregnant.

I came here to see if this case had been brought up. These were my thoughts exactly. It sounds like a set up, i don't think it will take long for this to unravel.

Very sad case.

 

[Tots]

And this trial starts tomorrow. No body murder of a daughter by her father allegedly with the mother heavily implicated as well.

Mother of missing teen admits lying to police - BBC News

Bernadette Walker, 17, went missing in July and police launched a murder investigation.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's been a busy old week for me and all of the scheduled trials on my list have started as planned so hopefully this is a sign that things are getting back to normal (outside London)

I’ve been really interested in this case. I’ve wondered if there was abuse by the Dad to Bernadette. I really hope she gets justice and that her body is found so she can be laid to rest.