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maytoseptember

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Not a parent, not good with kids but even I know that leaving a child who can't sit or stand up on a beanbag is reckless. One good wriggle and the beans move and suddenly the beanbag is right in your face. Never mind a child with a cough. That's before we get to the swaddling and Genevieve being face down.

100% guilty all the way.
I agree. It’s basic common sense not to restrain a baby and leave them face down on a bean bag. Sounds like Genevieve was a “difficult” child who cried a lot and slept badly, which is why Roughly treated her in such a vindictive and cruel way. She absolutely deserves to be found guilty.
 
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I genuinely believe hospital is the best place for him. I'm not taking away any pain the families have, what happened to their loved ones was horrendous but putting him in alongside other prisoners and him not being monitored to take his medication is dangerous to prisoners and officers. Hospitals aren't a nice place to be, he will forced medication, all the other prisoners are also unwell and will be doped up for a long time. Unfortunately the families need to accept that he won't face a prison sentence now they have appealed.

100% agree. & I'm sorry for the families and their loss but families should NEVER be allowed to influence such cases - juries are completely impartial for a reason.
 
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I do not understand how its got this far. The families of the two students are very eloquent and have advocated powerfully.

The convict is a paranoid schizophrenic - he is extremely unwell. He didn't take his medication and he wasn't monitored effectively.

The fault is not with the criminal justice system - the fault lies with our crumbling care system. We do not have an effective method of monitoring and controlling mentally ill people. If they are not in hospital then they are out in the community and if they are not taking their medication then they are likely to become extremely unwell and dangerous to others. This is completely at odds with an unduly lenient sentence.

It doesn't take away the shock and anger the family feels - of course they do. But if we allowed victims to decide the punishment then all murderers would be decapitated because its impossible to be rational when your loved one has been murdered.
I’m not sure what the family really think would be achieved by what they see as a more fitting sentence. Lock him up, let him suffer in a jail cell with an illness he can’t help and then… release him without him having had treatment plus way more traumatised and damaged so he goes on to kill more people.

Sometimes people are just ill and they do terrible things they aren’t in control of. The fact that sometimes others claim that to try to get out of facing consequences is irrelevant to this case where he clearly is a very unwell man and a hospital order was the only just result of the trial.

The families are very eloquent and middle class, I dare say working class families trying to get the same result as they had wouldn’t have had any success. The bias as ever present here as it was in the Maddie McCann case (whether or not the family called her maddie they were totally happy for her to be referred to as Maddie in the press and for the many appeals for money to look for her to be called Maddie).
 
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SaLou

VIP Member
I think this is the right decision

The sentence given to Nottingham killer Valdo Calocane was not "unduly lenient", senior judges have ruled.
 
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lilyannrose

VIP Member
Social workers are damned if they do, damned if they don't. I do feel as a collective organisation social services gets things wrong far more than they should but being aware of the underfunding, understaffing issues I do understand how it happens.

I just wish things were better. Nobody with the authority to improve things really gives a shit, it just gets worse year upon year while the rich get richer.
 
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Eureka

VIP Member
The social worker did what she could. She has enough work of her own without being expected to make sure other agencies do their job too.
 
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Starttheline

VIP Member
Its absolutely awful, the poor parents sitting through a trial and the jury having to listen to all those horrible details and watching the cctv over and over. How could she just leave her there for an hour and a half?? That poor girl.
I can't stop thinking about this case. I have two young children and it makes me feel even more anxious about my youngest starting nursery in a few months.

I just can't see how the jury will find her innocent. Regardless of any failures in nursery practices, common sense should have told everyone there that something was wrong and that strapping a child face down in a bean bag with a blanket over her, was the wrong thing to do. My heart breaks for the little girl and her parents.
 
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TheMiceInTheShed

VIP Member
She hit her first though. I’m not saying it’s right but she wasn’t to know that shove would kill her.
Young men have killed other young men with a single shove before, not knowing that their friend (and it often is horseplay between friends) had an "eggshell" skull, and that the resulting fall would cause their death.

Young men have killed other young men with a single punch, because they were just unlucky.

They usually end up in jail.

This was obviously a vulnerable elderly lady who was confused and unable to control her actions - and if Richman hadn't provoked her by clapping and commenting, then she probably wouldn't have lashed out.

She should have been jailed. I hope the CPS appeal the leniency of the sentence.
 
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Sunlifeover50

VIP Member
I think it’s quite clear that if these two boys kept quiet there’d be a boy C&D and on and on (if there isn’t already and they’re just keeping quiet). If it was a man we’d see him as a pedalo from the start, bring a baby into it and there’d be uproar.
 
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calmyourritas

VIP Member
Facebook speculation, but I still think this is most likely reason. It's expensive to get into Legoland, only to have to stand there bored on the sidelines watching your kids go on all the rides. I reckon she's had him hidden most of the day so she could get on a few rides, and unfortunatley whilst queueing for this particular ride which has no age restrictions, she's gone to get him out of the sling/carrier and noticed he'd got into difficulties.

View attachment 2921696
If this is true, how incredibly sad. Poor baby lost his life just so his mum could have a “fun” day out
 
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It's strange that there's not a lot of media coverage when usually there's tonnes of appeals and articles in papers. I read in the paper the other day that there was meant to be a terror attack in Edinburgh involving guns but the NCA found out about it. Things like this terrify me and I know they shouldn't. Just feels the world is getting scarier and something is about to happen.

Just can't imagine losing your loved one and especially in such a random attack it seems, she was just hanging around and he decides to attack. Stranger murders seem to be increasing too.
On the subject of terror attacks, I have a friend who worked in security forces for years. He told me there are so many would-be terrorists on their radar and planned attacks are being stopped all the time behind the scenes. Most don’t get very far towards actually doing anything but others come very close before either someone informs on them or intelligence is gathered and they are broken up. He thought I would find this reassuring, that so much is being monitored and prevented, and that the logistics involved make it hard for these people to remain undetected, but I was horrified as it wasn’t something I had really thought about. This was a good few years ago he told me this as well, before the apparent rise in lone wolf incidents.
 
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BearOnChair

Well-known member
This is fairly near me.
The guy who's died was a dj at the local pub and they posted that he was a nice lad who'll be missed. So nice that he was in someone's farm in the middle of the night with 2 other who've been arrested for aggregated burglery....
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It’s being reported to the police were called to the property earlier in the week. The statistics show that the police do not to respond to or solve burglary crimes. they seem to be a non-priority. It’s terrifying for rural and isolated residents. It’s no wonder that people take the law into their own hands. You have to be able to defend yourself and then if the police can’t do it people do it for themselves. I see the homeowner has been arrested for attempted murder. It will be for the investigation to determine whether the shots fired count as self defence.
Farm crime round there is bad, Derbyshire police are asking about cattle being stolen the same night. There's no police station nearby so it's no wonder farmers are getting frustrated.
 
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LouBug19

VIP Member
That CCTV must be absolutely harrowing to watch. The jury should be exhausted from future service.
Her poor parents having to watch it, probably repeatedly. It makes me feel sick.

The owners / managers should be charged with negligence in some form as they were clearly not paying attention to the baby room.
Its absolutely awful, the poor parents sitting through a trial and the jury having to listen to all those horrible details and watching the cctv over and over. How could she just leave her there for an hour and a half?? That poor girl.
 
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calmyourritas

VIP Member
Oh it’s such an absolutely awful story, what a gorgeous little girl. It’s actually made me cry reading it and seeing her face. Thinking about what those poor parents have gone through. And poor Genevieve must have suffered so much in that time. I’m so so sad for these little lives who get it ripped away from them not even given a chance 😢💔

giving my little girl extra cuddles tonight 🩷
 
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LouBug19

VIP Member

Poor girl glad she spoke up. Men from away from the western world think differently. It's why when migrants arrive in the UK off boats they get cultural training to know what isn't acceptable here.
A little bit off topic but I notice a lot of people who are petrified of dogs are not from the West. I witnessed a woman on the bus not long ago screaming hysterically because a dog got on. Another time in the park a woman started screaming at some woman to get her dog away from her when it was facing the other way and was interested in it's ball. I know it's a cultural thing but they are making their kids be scared too. Our culture is to have dogs as pets and I feel they need to get used too it and not making future generations scared.
 
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TenerifeTigger

Chatty Member
I'm beyond horrified at what that evil evil bitch done to a 9 month old baby.

When my youngest was days old i went into the kitchen leaving her in her moses basket in the living room and I then heard a weird noise, she'd managed to get her newborn comforter over her nose/mouth and couldn't breathe. I threw the thing as far from the basket as possible and she didn't get it back until about 3 months later. Now she's 3 and I still can't get it off her!

And that was an accident and I felt like the worst person in the world, how can anyone think to do that to a baby? Especially at 9 months as they'll be sitting etc so she probably strapped her in tight to stop her moving.
 
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