I don't know anything about this case and please don't read this as excusing what's happened. But sometimes sex games must go wrong, so how do the police etc tell the difference? Or would they prosecute you even if it was a sex game gone wrong?The old ‘rough sex gone wrong’ defence from him then?
Here’s an interesting article on that defence that I read a while back, it also lists cases of when this defence has been used and the verdicts that were received:
Does claiming a "sex game gone wrong" work? — We Can't Consent To This
In the UK, at the end of 2018, there was a great outcry at the sentencing of the partner of a young woman, Natalie Connolly, to 3 years and 8 months for her manslaughter. He’d claimed in his defence that Natalie had consented to “rough sex”, including beating and to sex acts that caused her terribwecantconsenttothis.uk
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The CCTV showed he was plying Elizabeth with alcohol, she was assaulted by him in the taxi, and was seen unconscious by a neighbour before he killed her. It’s pretty conclusive she couldn’t consent.
I am not sure what will happen with this case as he is also charged with rape etc and she was also seen that day drunk and unconscious (so maybe it was a bad example for me to give) but with other cases they have looked into the woman’s sexual history like asked previous partners what the woman had liked before, looked into whether there is history of domestic violence if the case is between two partners and I am assuming it also depends on the injuries. I remember with the Grace Millane case the prosecution argued that she would have been passed out from strangulation for a while so how could her death have been an accident if it was obvious she was unconscious.
That makes a lot of sense. I was wondering how one could tell the difference but then I also think even if it was a true sex game at some point you must be concerned for your partner.
‘We will never be able to comprehend what Nikki had gone through in her last moments and that will never leave us.’ - Are they insinuating it was suicide or is it because they don’t know how she died?
I’m sorry but the rough sex defence just really doesn’t cut it with me. There’s been a lot of campaigning to legislate against this type of defence. Essentially if a man commits murder during sexual activity can you then say it’s accidental? Or is it abusive in itself. There’s something to be said for using violence in a sadistic and excessive way that results in the death of a person. And using the victims sex life against them in death to me is just not OK. To me it is not totally dissimilar to the attitude that used to be (and sometimes still is) taken towards sex workers as victims.
I took that as drowning is a terrifying way to go, especially if they imagine she was trying to save herself
Often the rough sex gone wrong defence refers to strangulation too. It’s actually very difficult to strange someone and takes time and effort. I don’t think you would do it accidentally when ‘choking’ someone during sex.
I agree. I was just speaking about this yesterday in work. Whatever people wanna get upto in their sex lives is up to them. However are a lot of women genuinely into rough sex, Or are they doing it because they’re coerced into it? or to please their partners?
I feel in these rough sex homicide cases if there is any evidence of abuse or coercive control we should assume the victim didn’t/couldn’t consent. Same with any drug or alcohol use.
I think for women who genuinely enjoy rough sex/S&M they would be very selective about their partners & would have conversations around boundaries, safe words etc so they don’t end up dead.
Sadly there are many cases where 'rough sex' is carried out by a man wanting to satisfy violent sexual urges, and have a licence to do so with 'consent'.
i wonder this too. so much rough sex (or what we hear about) seems to involve the man being in full control of the situation - though equally i do believe some women are genuinely into it, the power dynamics of it all just give me bad vibes. it’s usually just used as a way for people to act out violent urges.
like you say, women genuinely into rough sex would be selective and have clear discussions beforehand about what they’re into and where the limits are. the article about this poor girl just says that she was in no state to fully consent and, based on the apparent videos, expressed that she didn’t feel comfortable.
as said above, it’s difficult to “accidentally” choke someone during sex. it would become pretty apparent things were going too far. even if you consent to choking in the first instance, you’re still “allowed” to then tap out if it gets too much. consenting to roughness doesn’t mean you completely consent to anything happening to you.
Ugh the "rough sex" defence sickens me. I'm sure there are some women who do like it a bit more aggressive in bed but I can't imagine any woman wants to be left bleeding or injured as a result of sex. To choke someone to death requires huge pressure on the neck that would be painful to the victim, it also takes time, you would have plenty of opportunity to see that your partner was in distress and pull back.
I think in relation to “rough sex” - men are much stronger physically than a woman. So even something that starts out “consensual” could very quickly become dangerous as when a woman decides she no longer wants to participate a man can physically continue regardless. Which is another consideration that effectively to me makes it redundant when you don’t have the voice of the victim to share what happened.
The rough sex defence is just total victim blaming. The Grace Millane case was appalling. He also took photographs of her body and watched porn whilst her body was still in the room. That doesn’t suggest to me that he was panicking after something went too far does it?
This is a good website https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/
The “rough sex” excuse makes me sick.
We need to stop normalising sexual practices that harm and kill women, and choking is top of the list.
Funny how choking is always the man choking the woman and never the other way around. Any man who gets off on choking a woman is sick.
I don’t believe woman have a natural predilection to enjoying being strangled either. It’s just porn teaching them that this is how sex should be
We need to stop normalising sexual practices that harm and kill women, and choking is top of the list.
Funny how choking is always the man choking the woman and never the other way around. Any man who gets off on choking a woman is sick.
I don’t believe woman have a natural predilection to enjoying being strangled either. It’s just porn teaching them that this is how sex should be
but it is very good 
The rough sex defence is just awful - this case, the death of Natalie Connolly, really upset me. I've never forgotten it.
www.theguardian.com
Prosecutors thought no jury would accept Natalie Connolly was murdered. What does that say? | Barbara Ellen
Both in life and death, society continues to dehumanise women
www.theguardian.com
Porn has a lot to answer forThe “rough sex” excuse makes me sick.
We need to stop normalising sexual practices that harm and kill women, and choking is top of the list.
Funny how choking is always the man choking the woman and never the other way around. Any man who gets off on choking a woman is sick.
I don’t believe woman have a natural predilection to enjoying being strangled either. It’s just porn teaching them that this is how sex should be
You are so right- and for teenage girls having their first sexual experiences it can be terrifying. These young lads (who perhaps do not have the benefit of parents who will talk to them about sex) - their only understanding of sex is that women really enjoy being strangled, violent anal sex and worse... absolutely sickening. Scenes that used to only be accessible to adults who were willing to go into a seedy shop and purchase a top shelf video are now readily accessible to 12 year old children.Porn has a lot to answer for
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