Missing Blogger Esther Dingley #2

[BestWishes]

Fascinating thread. The dynamic is so different on here from the rest of Tattle. Is it this fraught on Websleuths too?

Here’s a question that I’be not been able to find the answer to online and I was hoping you guys might know the answer…

Did Dan spot her remains from a distance and alert the authorities? Or did he physically get close enough to them where he could access them and her belongings?

The reason I ask is that I assumed it was the former and he’d spotted her body in a ravine or something below that was inaccessible without climbing equipment. However, some posters seem to be suggesting he moved the body or he found it so he could explain the presence of his DNA on it.

You are getting at a major undercurrent in the "remains have been found" event, by explicitly asking whether Dan got to the remains, handled them somehow, and then "found" them later. Dan is a very narcissistic kind of guy. If he did this, the most likely reason, In my opinion, is that he didn't want the world to see poor Esther had committed suicide: foremost because it would give the lie to the lalaland fantasy he has been trying to manipulate people into believing that the relationship was great and Esther was happy. To those many who pay attention to the gulf between what he says, what he does, and how he comes across, it is easy to conclude that Esther killed herself because of him, because he kept haranguing her, because he's a pathological narcissist and impossible to be around, because he destroyed her at the core. Many possibilities. But suicide for Esther would not fit with Dan's branding at all. So, he finds she has killed herself and destroys the evidence. Perhaps there were pills, perhaps other evidence. He might even have given the remains an extra shove, which resulted in their being in a more inaccessible location.
This is what I believe happened, from everything I see before my eyes, as well as paying attention to how police poke holes in his narrative. I believe Esther killed herself, Dan found the remains earlier, and did some rearranging to conceal a suicide. All an artificial construct. All for his branding.

Mr. Colegate spotted the remains from a distance and informed the Police.

The fact that the Police gave Mr. Colegate the freedom to trek around on his own before the body was found means that theoretically there is a possibility that he could have been up there tampering with the scene - but as far as I am aware there is no evidence that he did.

I assume the police asked him earlier not to traipse around—they were royally ticked that he did so, plus he contaminated the entire search area—but the police made clear that he had decided he was going to do it anyway.
As the police pointed out, it was very strange that the skull fragment turned up suddenly in plain sight right next to the trail. They make very clear it wasn't there shortly before.

I'll look for the Cody video. Very interesting.

Yes. Absolutely that case. The Cody woman has no empathy, very much like the Esther guy who expresses no empathy for Esther, just how "sad" he is that she is no longer. Imagine being merely "sad" after more than half a life with a partner. And he feels oh, so sorry, for himself. I believe the Cody woman got 30 years.

 

[SummerSky]

You are getting at a major undercurrent in the "remains have been found" event, by explicitly asking whether Dan got to the remains, handled them somehow, and then "found" them later. Dan is a very narcissistic kind of guy. If he did this, the most likely reason, In my opinion, is that he didn't want the world to see poor Esther had committed suicide: foremost because it would give the lie to the lalaland fantasy he has been trying to manipulate people into believing that the relationship was great and Esther was happy. To those many who pay attention to the gulf between what he says, what he does, and how he comes across, it is easy to conclude that Esther killed herself because of him, because he kept haranguing her, because he's a pathological narcissist and impossible to be around, because he destroyed her at the core. Many possibilities. But suicide for Esther would not fit with Dan's branding at all. So, he finds she has killed herself and destroys the evidence. Perhaps there were pills, perhaps other evidence. He might even have given the remains an extra shove, which resulted in their being in a more inaccessible location.
This is what I believe happened, from everything I see before my eyes, as well as paying attention to how police poke holes in his narrative. I believe Esther killed herself, Dan found the remains earlier, and did some rearranging to conceal a suicide. All an artificial construct. All for his branding.


I assume the police asked him earlier not to traipse around—they were royally ticked that he did so, plus he contaminated the entire search area—but the police made clear that he had decided he was going to do it anyway.
As the police pointed out, it was very strange that the skull fragment turned up suddenly in plain sight right next to the trail. They make very clear it wasn't there shortly before.


Yes. Absolutely that case. The Cody woman has no empathy, very much like the Esther guy who expresses no empathy for Esther, just how "sad" he is that she is no longer. Imagine being merely "sad" after more than half a life with a partner. And he feels oh, so sorry, for himself. I believe the Cody woman got 30 years.

I don't believe in the suicide notion. Not to say I'm right but I firmly don't think it happened.

1. If you off yourself do you throw your belongings around and disappear a tent and other items they still haven't found?

2. Narcissistic collapse - this is a jargon term for the "near death" experience of a narcissist psychologically when their partner threatens to leave or leaves. Esther had left. She was supposed to return after a 3 day hike but kept postponing.

The wound this creates in the narcissist is so severe that they could commit suicide. Their false identity collapses when rejected. They need a new partner asap or they transition to major depression and often substance abuse.

The inner crisis is so brutal that it motivates some narcissists to kill. They say never tell a narc you are leaving because you might die.

3. She told Laura she was probably going to leave him. Her actions matched those words without finalising the deed. She was busy trying to get self sufficient.

 

[SummerSky]

I don't know much about narcissists, so I had a quick look at HG Tudor's YouTube channel, and I saw this comment under one of the videos. I have to say his reply thoroughly shocked me (screenshot attached).

Another point to remember here is that Caroline Crouch's husband was literally at her funeral when he was arrested. He had been given all that "freedom" by the police, plus her body had been given back to the family by that stage. So everything we are seeing here from the police doesn't necessarily mean that they don't suspect Dan.

HG Tudor tells it like it is. And the truth is harsh.

Great catch pertinent to Esther & Caroline's fates.

Lol at the cops arresting Caroline's murderer at her funeral. Good for them.

I don't know much about narcissists, so I had a quick look at HG Tudor's YouTube channel, and I saw this comment under one of the videos. I have to say his reply thoroughly shocked me (screenshot attached).

Another point to remember here is that Caroline Crouch's husband was literally at her funeral when he was arrested. He had been given all that "freedom" by the police, plus her body had been given back to the family by that stage. So everything we are seeing here from the police doesn't necessarily mean that they don't suspect Dan.

A severe NPD I used to know calls himself a grave digger.

When asked about that peculiar statement he'd give a vague, cryptic reply.

I see now those kinds of comments are akin to "duper's delight" - the FBI 'tell'.

These disordered people think they are very powerful and can't restrain trying to brag. They think they can ruin lives. Some do, but many targets wake up before too late.

 

[BestWishes]

I don't believe in the suicide notion. Not to say I'm right but I firmly don't think it happened.

1. If you off yourself do you throw your belongings around and disappear a tent and other items they still haven't found?

2. Narcissistic collapse - this is a jargon term for the "near death" experience of a narcissist psychologically when their partner threatens to leave or leaves. Esther had left. She was supposed to return after a 3 day hike but kept postponing.

The wound this creates in the narcissist is so severe that they could commit suicide. Their false identity collapses when rejected. They need a new partner asap or they transition to major depression and often substance abuse.

The inner crisis is so brutal that it motivates some narcissists to kill. They say never tell a narc you are leaving because you might die.

3. She told Laura she was probably going to leave him. Her actions matched those words without finalising the deed. She was busy trying to get self sufficient.

It's very possible Esther ditched the "tent" that wasn't a tent (it was a tarp tent), because it was so useless except for summer in the woods. Near winter above treeline? NO. She may have ditched other things as well. Or the tent could have blown off (it's basically a parachute; it's even made out of parachute fabric).
I haven't seen any data on whether a narcissist would be prone to killing himself if his partner left him, but the grandiosity aspect makes me think this is unlikely, and we sure have grandiosity in this picture. As for Esther, it seems Dan had wrung her out. Narcissist's victims kill themselves because they can't make headway in the world they've found themselves in, a world that is entirely of the narcissist's making. That's my understanding.

 

[PeggyHenry]

I imagine when DC isn’t in control of a situation he can’t handle it. It stems from his background when he had to always think ahead to control the situation with his illness from an early age. You can read all about his early experiences online. He spent his early life having to always think ahead to manage his illness. Being in control was a necessity. With Esther , towards the end at least, he wasn’t in control snd I think it would have been extremely hard for him to handle the sensation of her slipping away. I think a last ditch attempt was to initiate the BBC publicity. I’m surprised if he didn’t go looking for her . He would surely have felt a need to find her and was clearly sending messages.. lots of them. She was being vague about her whereabouts so must have been concerned about someone knowing her whereabouts. Why did she repeat her climb of pic de sauvegarde and why begin the ascent so late in the day on the 22nd and then contact Dc from the pic.?

 

[Estella]

It's very possible Esther ditched the "tent" that wasn't a tent (it was a tarp tent), because it was so useless except for summer in the woods. Near winter above treeline? NO. She may have ditched other things as well. Or the tent could have blown off (it's basically a parachute; it's even made out of parachute fabric).
I haven't seen any data on whether a narcissist would be prone to killing himself if his partner left him, but the grandiosity aspect makes me think this is unlikely, and we sure have grandiosity in this picture. As for Esther, it seems Dan had wrung her out. Narcissist's victims kill themselves because they can't make headway in the world they've found themselves in, a world that is entirely of the narcissist's making. That's my understanding.

You may be right, but in my opinion Esther wouldn't have ditched her tent. She was an environmentalist, a nature lover, a lover of the mountains. She was also frugal. She was keen on that tent. I cant see her ditching it, it wasnt in her personality or demeanour to do that sort of thing. Perhaps more likely she gave it away if it was causing her trouble such as being too heavy to carry.

Also, going back to the 'spotting from a distance' thing. This might be something to explore further. From what I understand, the remains would be bones and equipment. Is this really something you would spot 'from a distance'? The terrain would be rocky. Any bones would be surely indistinguishable unless you were fairly near. It's also something to discuss in terms of the psychology. If this was me, and my partner had been missing for 8 months, the idea of 'finding' them would be too agonising. I wouldn't be out looking at this stage (I.. e. After 8 months) as the chances of finding them alive would be next to zero. But ,if say i was... what would i do when i thought i had sighted the site of the body? Would a person get closer to check facts or would a person stay away?. Interested in what people think in terms of the psychology behind it

 

[PeggyHenry]

I would leave searching to the rescue teams. I wouldn’t want to locate my partners body after that amount of time. I would want to remember them full of life. The thought of it is horrific for me. On the other hand I’d want them found of course. A difficult one…

 

[SummerSky]

It's very possible Esther ditched the "tent" that wasn't a tent (it was a tarp tent), because it was so useless except for summer in the woods. Near winter above treeline? NO. She may have ditched other things as well. Or the tent could have blown off (it's basically a parachute; it's even made out of parachute fabric).
I haven't seen any data on whether a narcissist would be prone to killing himself if his partner left him, but the grandiosity aspect makes me think this is unlikely, and we sure have grandiosity in this picture. As for Esther, it seems Dan had wrung her out. Narcissist's victims kill themselves because they can't make headway in the world they've found themselves in, a world that is entirely of the narcissist's making. That's my understanding.

I have a brother who has it. V wealthy v grandiose. Aston Martins, yacht, 2 vineyards, several homes. Vengeful. Mega rage-filled when wounded.

Ultra charming. All round achiever: business, women, sporting activities. V good looking.

Incredibly weak emotionally during a narcissist collapse. If a woman leaves (rare). Abuses alcohol to the brim of death (two vineyards, no need to buy any). Self pity galore.

I was terrified he'd commit suicide in 2019. It was that bad. They feel major pain. Agony. I heard it all. As Tudor says, never believe anyone who tells you narcs don't have feelings.

He described feeling a deep void inside. And terror.

 

[MourningDove]

I have a brother who has it. V wealthy v grandiose. Aston Martins, yacht, 2 vineyards, several homes. Vengeful. Mega rage-filled when wounded.

Ultra charming. All round achiever: business, women, sporting activities. V good looking.

Incredibly weak emotionally during a narcissist collapse. If a woman leaves (rare). Abuses alcohol to the brim of death (two vineyards, no need to buy any). Self pity galore.

I was terrified he'd commit suicide in 2019. It was that bad. They feel major pain. Agony. I heard it all. As Tudor says, never believe anyone who tells you narcs don't have feelings.

He described feeling a deep void inside. And terror.

I wouldn't be out looking at this stage (I.. e. After 8 months) as the chances of finding them alive would be next to zero. But ,if say i was... what would i do when i thought i had sighted the site of the body? Would a person get closer to check facts or would a person stay away?. Interested in what people think in terms of the psychology behind it

Respectfully shortened.

That is a very interesting question, @Estella. I am biased as it pertains to DC in this case because my mind has spent a lot of time analyzing whether he could have manipulated ED's remains (from early on) to appear as an accident instead of the suicide I believe may have occurred, and eventually found. But let's say that didn't happen, which is equally possible. I honestly think a long term partner who found the skeletal remains of someone he/she loved deeply would do anything reasonably possible to be present or closer to that location, especially after longing for that moment so long.

 

[SummerSky]

Time to revisit "I think I can see you".

She posted it publicly once and texted him the same phrase shortly before vanishing.

Her cell signal stopped at Pic de Sauvegarde.
Tracking dogs found no scent of her beyond Pic de Sauvegarde.

Her bones were found near Pic de Glere.

Cell signal is actually good between Pic de Sauvegarde & Pic de la Glere.

Why no pings over 72hrs?

Why no dog scenting of her towards Pic de la Glere?

 

[Estella]

Time to revisit "I think I can see you".

She posted it publicly once and texted him the same phrase shortly before vanishing.

Her cell signal stopped at Pic de Sauvegarde.
Tracking dogs found no scent of her beyond Pic de Sauvegarde.

Her bones were found near Pic de Glere.

Cell signal is actually good between Pic de Sauvegarde & Pic de la Glere.

Why no pings over 72hrs?

Why no dog scenting of her towards Pic de la Glere?

I'm pretty sure she is referring to the very good visibility as she says right after "Maybe I can see you!! Such a clear day!!".... BUT how close exactly was he? The media reports 100miles away, but not sure that is all that accurate. Has anyone found the address of the farm house DC was staying at and looked at the actual distance? Before saying "maybe I can see you" she mentions Pic Aneto and Bagneres Luchon suggesting these are the furthest points she can see

 

[SummerSky]

I'm pretty sure she is referring to the very good visibility as she says right after "Maybe I can see you!! Such a clear day!!".... BUT how close exactly was he? The media reports 100miles away, but not sure that is all that accurate. Has anyone found the address of the farm house DC was staying at and looked at the actual distance? Before saying "maybe I can see you" she mentions Pic Aneto and Bagneres Luchon suggesting these are the furthest points she can see

It seems to imply he was in the Bagneres Luchon area. 4hrs walk up to Pic de S.

She had to be cryptic because of lockdown rules?

 

[AlanB]

You guys understand that it is not realistic that Mr. Colegate did this in a fit of rage, even though that's the most likely way such a thing would happen in real life ?

A fit of rage would mean that it would not be premeditated and so he would take his phone with him, which means it would inevitably ping a mast on the way to her and thus give the Police the evidence that he was not where he said he was. The hire car via cash without ID is out of the question too, those people virtually want blood !

I think it is logistically virtually impossible because his phone/credit card/laptop would alert the Police to where he was and the logistics of going in the night by bike to kill her, drag her body up and drop her over the edge without leaving any clues and getting there and then back unobserved in the very early morning doesn't sound credible to me. I also don't think he would be looking to go there to kill her anyway - it is clear that he likes to have a "disciple" to massage his ego...

A couple of other points :
(1) There is talk of her body being released and then the ashes scattered - I wouldn't think the Police would allow this if they thought the case was still unsolved.
(2) He'd have to be extremely dumb (I don't like the way he acts, but I don't think he's dumb) if he wanted to kill her to do it this way - far wiser to bide his time, propose another final hike together and then push her over a ledge whilst claiming she fell. Try and prove otherwise when him being there is not an indicator of guilt, there would be no witnesses and it would be virtually impossible to get a conviction.

I posted this a while back and the thoughts within it explain why I still think Mr. Colegate is not directly involved (I DO think their deteriorating relationship probably played a part one way or the other).

At the moment I still think an accident where she was in an emotional state and not taking proper care is the most probable cause, however, suicide sadly remains on the table of possibilities and something somebody else (I can't locate who for the life of me) said in this thread that I had not fully considered strengthens that possibility - the mystery of why she went up the same climb twice is solved if she was doing a reconnaissance of where and how to do it - I really hope she was not so desperate with her personal situation that this was the case but I certainly think it's possible.

 

[Black cat wisdom]

I wonder if the "I loved her" comment was very literal - hence waiting 3 days to alert rescue, too. DC is perhaps a very very literal thinker re emotion. He's clearly clever and calculating too. They had a brand and a life together, which he valued, but it was no longer "love", for him (backed up by so many other indicators). So, something that many of us have taken to be almost a slip-up may not have been - although he rapidly realised as soon as he'd said it how it sounded, and corrected it (but really for the brand's sake). Just a thought. Agreed, otherwise, so many red flags - so many very strange factors seemed to align for this awful tragedy to happen.

 

[SummerSky]

To my mind there are too many coincidences here for there not to be something in it:

1. The rescue helicopter video where the rescuers were doing exactly what happened to Esther a few months later (premeditated?).
2. Esther writing "I think I can see you" (could she see him?).
3. The BBC article comes out the same day she disappears.
4. Dan waits 3 days to alert authorities.
5. Dan's BBC interview where he says he "loved" her.
6. Dan goes off searching on his own, leads them the wrong direction (deliberately?).
7. Dan hiring LBT to control the narrative, rubbishing claims they were "on a break".
8. The bone fragment appearing literally out of nowhere (deliberately placed?).
9. Dan magically finding the body when the search teams couldn't, even with all their special equipment and helicopters etc.
10. The missing items and tent.
11. Dan now fund raising.

Great list of flaming red flags. Wish we could pin it to the top of the thread so it shows on each new page.

12. Tracking dogs found no scent of her beyond Pic de Sauvegarde yet she was found in a different area.

13. No vultures sighted by mountain rangers from 22-25 November? and beyond. Presuming rangers continued duties & daily walks 22-25 Nov?

 

[BestWishes]

This is why they don't like folks on search efforts. I know this keeps getting forgotten, but SAR could have found Esther's remains a lot earlier if it hadn't been for Dan. Perhaps they'd even have found her last December before snow set in. You see, he contaminated the trail. Plus, he insisted that Esther went in a certain direction (that he seems to have made up, since Esther clearly says she was going first to the area where she was found).
So, here's how SAR works, and why the police were so annoyed that Dan insisted on doing his own searching.
SAR is for trained personnel only.

 

[Cheapseats]

I wonder if the "I loved her" comment was very literal - hence waiting 3 days to alert rescue, too. DC is perhaps a very very literal thinker re emotion. He's clearly clever and calculating too. They had a brand and a life together, which he valued, but it was no longer "love", for him (backed up by so many other indicators). So, something that many of us have taken to be almost a slip-up may not have been - although he rapidly realised as soon as he'd said it how it sounded, and corrected it (but really for the brand's sake). Just a thought. Agreed, otherwise, so many red flags - so many very strange factors seemed to align for this awful tragedy to happen.

But why not just do it off that pic? She would know her family would want her found and she could make it look like she was trying to get a photo and slipped from there.

I do not buy into the suicide theory. Not enough evidence and missing equipment.

She delayed her return. She interacted with people went climbing with a group of at least 3 people. Why try to learn a new skill if the intention is to end your life?

For me it is accident or foul play.

 

[SummerSky]

But why not just do it off that pic? She would know her family would want her found and she could make it look like she was trying to get a photo and slipped from there.

I do not buy into the suicide theory. Not enough evidence and missing equipment.

She delayed her return. She interacted with people went climbing with a group of at least 3 people. Why try to learn a new skill if the intention is to end your life?

For me it is accident or foul play.

Yes. One reason dogs would not scent her movements from Pic de Sauvegarde towards Pic de la Glere was if she returned back DOWN the mountain retracing her steps.

And died off the mountain in foul play.

She'd at minimum leave her mother a note too! She was not cruel/self absorbed.

Dan originally said she wasn't on the mountain. Dec 2020.

 

[Sslb_18]

Hi! New to this thread and so glad I find it!
I’ve followed this case in the news since she first went missing and I followed it through BBC news.
What I found really strange and quite creepy is about a month or two before she went missing, he did a huge article on them both, how they quit their life to climb mountains.
Just made me question him so much more! He seemed quite fame hungry in a respect!?
But thanks for the information, will be following closely!

 

[Federico_A]

Hilarious reading back through this thread. I see most people are having fun with the theory that Dan pushed her off the cliff.
Yes, Dan was a fruitcake. So was she. They were made for each other. But come on. There's one huge thing wrong with this theory: the world just isn't that interesting. It would the crime of the century. The assumptions involved are beyond fiction. Sure, anything is possible, but the probability of this theory barely registers on the scale.
Wondering why some of her gear is missing? It will be hidden somewhere down below. When on an up-down hike it makes sense to hide stuff you don't need in bushes or among rocks, to be picked up on the way down. I do that all the time. What's the point carrying it all up and down again?

What's wrong with the obvious, Occam-approved solution that she went up to the ridge for a photo (or a signal) and fell off due to an overzealous stretch during a momentary lapse of situational awareness? Disappointingly dull, I know.