Missing Blogger Esther Dingley #2

[AlanB]

Fascinating thread. The dynamic is so different on here from the rest of Tattle. Is it this fraught on Websleuths too?

Here’s a question that I’be not been able to find the answer to online and I was hoping you guys might know the answer…

Did Dan spot her remains from a distance and alert the authorities? Or did he physically get close enough to them where he could access them and her belongings?

The reason I ask is that I assumed it was the former and he’d spotted her body in a ravine or something below that was inaccessible without climbing equipment. However, some posters seem to be suggesting he moved the body or he found it so he could explain the presence of his DNA on it.

Mr. Colegate spotted the remains from a distance and informed the Police.

The fact that the Police gave Mr. Colegate the freedom to trek around on his own before the body was found means that theoretically there is a possibility that he could have been up there tampering with the scene - but as far as I am aware there is no evidence that he did.

 

[SummerSky]

Mr. Colegate spotted the remains from a distance and informed the Police.

The fact that the Police gave Mr. Colegate the freedom to trek around on his own before the body was found means that theoretically there is a possibility that he could have been up there tampering with the scene - but as far as I am aware there is no evidence that he did.

The spotting from a distance is odd because the police said the remains were in a gully/cave type place.

Lemon asked a good question because the details of the finding are a bit hazy.

Fascinating thread. The dynamic is so different on here from the rest of Tattle. Is it this fraught on Websleuths too?

Here’s a question that I’be not been able to find the answer to online and I was hoping you guys might know the answer…

Did Dan spot her remains from a distance and alert the authorities? Or did he physically get close enough to them where he could access them and her belongings?

The reason I ask is that I assumed it was the former and he’d spotted her body in a ravine or something below that was inaccessible without climbing equipment. However, some posters seem to be suggesting he moved the body or he found it so he could explain the presence of his DNA on it.

Lemon the police described the location as "inaccessible".

And it seems they infer it is higher than the trail level. So Dan's eyes are on stalks perhaps?

Fascinating thread. The dynamic is so different on here from the rest of Tattle. Is it this fraught on Websleuths too?

Here’s a question that I’be not been able to find the answer to online and I was hoping you guys might know the answer…

Did Dan spot her remains from a distance and alert the authorities? Or did he physically get close enough to them where he could access them and her belongings?

The reason I ask is that I assumed it was the former and he’d spotted her body in a ravine or something below that was inaccessible without climbing equipment. However, some posters seem to be suggesting he moved the body or he found it so he could explain the presence of his DNA on it.

By the way, if you think this is fraught you should watch the Youtube channels discussing Summer Wells. Both sides.

Ones accusing the parents: AB or John Cue or The Interview Room.
The one befriending the father, who diddled his sisters as per their testimony - Voices Behind The Wall.

It's a whole other level.

The importance of it all is that people on the street drive investigation pressure.

 

[Passive_Aggressive_Lemon]

I saw a YouTube video the other day on the murder of Cody Johnson. I was struck by the similarities with his wife finding the body despite it being on an inaccessible bit of mountainside.

 

[SummerSky]

I saw a YouTube video the other day on the murder of Cody Johnson. I was struck by the similarities with his wife finding the body despite it being on an inaccessible bit of mountainside.

I'll look for the Cody video. Very interesting.

 

[Passive_Aggressive_Lemon]

I'll look for the Cody video. Very interesting.

 

[Agent Krycek]

It's got to be said that whoever/whatever he is writing about it's a bloody good poem

They are just very strange poetry topics for someone who had been in a relationship with their ‘soul mate’ since they were a teenager. Poems are usually the expression of the poets experience/inner life.

 

[SummerSky]

They are just very strange poetry topics for someone who had been in a relationship with their ‘soul mate’ since they were a teenager. Poems are usually the expression of the poets experience/inner life.

A narc I know, not an ex, claimed Wuthering Heights was "a great love story". While psychologists cite the same book as a great example of NPD in action.

These people think of love as a torturous journey in which pain is inflicted left and right. The greater the agony the greater the love.

It's all very sick and I need to go wash my mind out to get rid of these thoughts.

Thanks Lemon.

 

[BestWishes]

Fascinating thread. The dynamic is so different on here from the rest of Tattle. Is it this fraught on Websleuths too?

Here’s a question that I’be not been able to find the answer to online and I was hoping you guys might know the answer…

Did Dan spot her remains from a distance and alert the authorities? Or did he physically get close enough to them where he could access them and her belongings?

The reason I ask is that I assumed it was the former and he’d spotted her body in a ravine or something below that was inaccessible without climbing equipment. However, some posters seem to be suggesting he moved the body or he found it so he could explain the presence of his DNA on it.

You are getting at a major undercurrent in the "remains have been found" event, by explicitly asking whether Dan got to the remains, handled them somehow, and then "found" them later. Dan is a very narcissistic kind of guy. If he did this, the most likely reason, In my opinion, is that he didn't want the world to see poor Esther had committed suicide: foremost because it would give the lie to the lalaland fantasy he has been trying to manipulate people into believing that the relationship was great and Esther was happy. To those many who pay attention to the gulf between what he says, what he does, and how he comes across, it is easy to conclude that Esther killed herself because of him, because he kept haranguing her, because he's a pathological narcissist and impossible to be around, because he destroyed her at the core. Many possibilities. But suicide for Esther would not fit with Dan's branding at all. So, he finds she has killed herself and destroys the evidence. Perhaps there were pills, perhaps other evidence. He might even have given the remains an extra shove, which resulted in their being in a more inaccessible location.
This is what I believe happened, from everything I see before my eyes, as well as paying attention to how police poke holes in his narrative. I believe Esther killed herself, Dan found the remains earlier, and did some rearranging to conceal a suicide. All an artificial construct. All for his branding.

Mr. Colegate spotted the remains from a distance and informed the Police.

The fact that the Police gave Mr. Colegate the freedom to trek around on his own before the body was found means that theoretically there is a possibility that he could have been up there tampering with the scene - but as far as I am aware there is no evidence that he did.

I assume the police asked him earlier not to traipse around—they were royally ticked that he did so, plus he contaminated the entire search area—but the police made clear that he had decided he was going to do it anyway.
As the police pointed out, it was very strange that the skull fragment turned up suddenly in plain sight right next to the trail. They make very clear it wasn't there shortly before.

I'll look for the Cody video. Very interesting.

Yes. Absolutely that case. The Cody woman has no empathy, very much like the Esther guy who expresses no empathy for Esther, just how "sad" he is that she is no longer. Imagine being merely "sad" after more than half a life with a partner. And he feels oh, so sorry, for himself. I believe the Cody woman got 30 years.

 

[SummerSky]

You are getting at a major undercurrent in the "remains have been found" event, by explicitly asking whether Dan got to the remains, handled them somehow, and then "found" them later. Dan is a very narcissistic kind of guy. If he did this, the most likely reason, In my opinion, is that he didn't want the world to see poor Esther had committed suicide: foremost because it would give the lie to the lalaland fantasy he has been trying to manipulate people into believing that the relationship was great and Esther was happy. To those many who pay attention to the gulf between what he says, what he does, and how he comes across, it is easy to conclude that Esther killed herself because of him, because he kept haranguing her, because he's a pathological narcissist and impossible to be around, because he destroyed her at the core. Many possibilities. But suicide for Esther would not fit with Dan's branding at all. So, he finds she has killed herself and destroys the evidence. Perhaps there were pills, perhaps other evidence. He might even have given the remains an extra shove, which resulted in their being in a more inaccessible location.
This is what I believe happened, from everything I see before my eyes, as well as paying attention to how police poke holes in his narrative. I believe Esther killed herself, Dan found the remains earlier, and did some rearranging to conceal a suicide. All an artificial construct. All for his branding.


I assume the police asked him earlier not to traipse around—they were royally ticked that he did so, plus he contaminated the entire search area—but the police made clear that he had decided he was going to do it anyway.
As the police pointed out, it was very strange that the skull fragment turned up suddenly in plain sight right next to the trail. They make very clear it wasn't there shortly before.


Yes. Absolutely that case. The Cody woman has no empathy, very much like the Esther guy who expresses no empathy for Esther, just how "sad" he is that she is no longer. Imagine being merely "sad" after more than half a life with a partner. And he feels oh, so sorry, for himself. I believe the Cody woman got 30 years.

I don't believe in the suicide notion. Not to say I'm right but I firmly don't think it happened.

1. If you off yourself do you throw your belongings around and disappear a tent and other items they still haven't found?

2. Narcissistic collapse - this is a jargon term for the "near death" experience of a narcissist psychologically when their partner threatens to leave or leaves. Esther had left. She was supposed to return after a 3 day hike but kept postponing.

The wound this creates in the narcissist is so severe that they could commit suicide. Their false identity collapses when rejected. They need a new partner asap or they transition to major depression and often substance abuse.

The inner crisis is so brutal that it motivates some narcissists to kill. They say never tell a narc you are leaving because you might die.

3. She told Laura she was probably going to leave him. Her actions matched those words without finalising the deed. She was busy trying to get self sufficient.

 

[TiaanG]

I don't know much about narcissists, so I had a quick look at HG Tudor's YouTube channel, and I saw this comment under one of the videos. I have to say his reply thoroughly shocked me (screenshot attached).

Another point to remember here is that Caroline Crouch's husband was literally at her funeral when he was arrested. He had been given all that "freedom" by the police, plus her body had been given back to the family by that stage. So everything we are seeing here from the police doesn't necessarily mean that they don't suspect Dan.

 

[SummerSky]

I don't know much about narcissists, so I had a quick look at HG Tudor's YouTube channel, and I saw this comment under one of the videos. I have to say his reply thoroughly shocked me (screenshot attached).

Another point to remember here is that Caroline Crouch's husband was literally at her funeral when he was arrested. He had been given all that "freedom" by the police, plus her body had been given back to the family by that stage. So everything we are seeing here from the police doesn't necessarily mean that they don't suspect Dan.

HG Tudor tells it like it is. And the truth is harsh.

Great catch pertinent to Esther & Caroline's fates.

Lol at the cops arresting Caroline's murderer at her funeral. Good for them.

I don't know much about narcissists, so I had a quick look at HG Tudor's YouTube channel, and I saw this comment under one of the videos. I have to say his reply thoroughly shocked me (screenshot attached).

Another point to remember here is that Caroline Crouch's husband was literally at her funeral when he was arrested. He had been given all that "freedom" by the police, plus her body had been given back to the family by that stage. So everything we are seeing here from the police doesn't necessarily mean that they don't suspect Dan.

A severe NPD I used to know calls himself a grave digger.

When asked about that peculiar statement he'd give a vague, cryptic reply.

I see now those kinds of comments are akin to "duper's delight" - the FBI 'tell'.

These disordered people think they are very powerful and can't restrain trying to brag. They think they can ruin lives. Some do, but many targets wake up before too late.

 

[BestWishes]

I don't believe in the suicide notion. Not to say I'm right but I firmly don't think it happened.

1. If you off yourself do you throw your belongings around and disappear a tent and other items they still haven't found?

2. Narcissistic collapse - this is a jargon term for the "near death" experience of a narcissist psychologically when their partner threatens to leave or leaves. Esther had left. She was supposed to return after a 3 day hike but kept postponing.

The wound this creates in the narcissist is so severe that they could commit suicide. Their false identity collapses when rejected. They need a new partner asap or they transition to major depression and often substance abuse.

The inner crisis is so brutal that it motivates some narcissists to kill. They say never tell a narc you are leaving because you might die.

3. She told Laura she was probably going to leave him. Her actions matched those words without finalising the deed. She was busy trying to get self sufficient.

It's very possible Esther ditched the "tent" that wasn't a tent (it was a tarp tent), because it was so useless except for summer in the woods. Near winter above treeline? NO. She may have ditched other things as well. Or the tent could have blown off (it's basically a parachute; it's even made out of parachute fabric).
I haven't seen any data on whether a narcissist would be prone to killing himself if his partner left him, but the grandiosity aspect makes me think this is unlikely, and we sure have grandiosity in this picture. As for Esther, it seems Dan had wrung her out. Narcissist's victims kill themselves because they can't make headway in the world they've found themselves in, a world that is entirely of the narcissist's making. That's my understanding.

 

[PeggyHenry]

I imagine when DC isn’t in control of a situation he can’t handle it. It stems from his background when he had to always think ahead to control the situation with his illness from an early age. You can read all about his early experiences online. He spent his early life having to always think ahead to manage his illness. Being in control was a necessity. With Esther , towards the end at least, he wasn’t in control snd I think it would have been extremely hard for him to handle the sensation of her slipping away. I think a last ditch attempt was to initiate the BBC publicity. I’m surprised if he didn’t go looking for her . He would surely have felt a need to find her and was clearly sending messages.. lots of them. She was being vague about her whereabouts so must have been concerned about someone knowing her whereabouts. Why did she repeat her climb of pic de sauvegarde and why begin the ascent so late in the day on the 22nd and then contact Dc from the pic.?

 

[Estella]

It's very possible Esther ditched the "tent" that wasn't a tent (it was a tarp tent), because it was so useless except for summer in the woods. Near winter above treeline? NO. She may have ditched other things as well. Or the tent could have blown off (it's basically a parachute; it's even made out of parachute fabric).
I haven't seen any data on whether a narcissist would be prone to killing himself if his partner left him, but the grandiosity aspect makes me think this is unlikely, and we sure have grandiosity in this picture. As for Esther, it seems Dan had wrung her out. Narcissist's victims kill themselves because they can't make headway in the world they've found themselves in, a world that is entirely of the narcissist's making. That's my understanding.

You may be right, but in my opinion Esther wouldn't have ditched her tent. She was an environmentalist, a nature lover, a lover of the mountains. She was also frugal. She was keen on that tent. I cant see her ditching it, it wasnt in her personality or demeanour to do that sort of thing. Perhaps more likely she gave it away if it was causing her trouble such as being too heavy to carry.

Also, going back to the 'spotting from a distance' thing. This might be something to explore further. From what I understand, the remains would be bones and equipment. Is this really something you would spot 'from a distance'? The terrain would be rocky. Any bones would be surely indistinguishable unless you were fairly near. It's also something to discuss in terms of the psychology. If this was me, and my partner had been missing for 8 months, the idea of 'finding' them would be too agonising. I wouldn't be out looking at this stage (I.. e. After 8 months) as the chances of finding them alive would be next to zero. But ,if say i was... what would i do when i thought i had sighted the site of the body? Would a person get closer to check facts or would a person stay away?. Interested in what people think in terms of the psychology behind it

 

[PeggyHenry]

I would leave searching to the rescue teams. I wouldn’t want to locate my partners body after that amount of time. I would want to remember them full of life. The thought of it is horrific for me. On the other hand I’d want them found of course. A difficult one…

 

[SummerSky]

It's very possible Esther ditched the "tent" that wasn't a tent (it was a tarp tent), because it was so useless except for summer in the woods. Near winter above treeline? NO. She may have ditched other things as well. Or the tent could have blown off (it's basically a parachute; it's even made out of parachute fabric).
I haven't seen any data on whether a narcissist would be prone to killing himself if his partner left him, but the grandiosity aspect makes me think this is unlikely, and we sure have grandiosity in this picture. As for Esther, it seems Dan had wrung her out. Narcissist's victims kill themselves because they can't make headway in the world they've found themselves in, a world that is entirely of the narcissist's making. That's my understanding.

I have a brother who has it. V wealthy v grandiose. Aston Martins, yacht, 2 vineyards, several homes. Vengeful. Mega rage-filled when wounded.

Ultra charming. All round achiever: business, women, sporting activities. V good looking.

Incredibly weak emotionally during a narcissist collapse. If a woman leaves (rare). Abuses alcohol to the brim of death (two vineyards, no need to buy any). Self pity galore.

I was terrified he'd commit suicide in 2019. It was that bad. They feel major pain. Agony. I heard it all. As Tudor says, never believe anyone who tells you narcs don't have feelings.

He described feeling a deep void inside. And terror.

 

[MourningDove]

I have a brother who has it. V wealthy v grandiose. Aston Martins, yacht, 2 vineyards, several homes. Vengeful. Mega rage-filled when wounded.

Ultra charming. All round achiever: business, women, sporting activities. V good looking.

Incredibly weak emotionally during a narcissist collapse. If a woman leaves (rare). Abuses alcohol to the brim of death (two vineyards, no need to buy any). Self pity galore.

I was terrified he'd commit suicide in 2019. It was that bad. They feel major pain. Agony. I heard it all. As Tudor says, never believe anyone who tells you narcs don't have feelings.

He described feeling a deep void inside. And terror.

I wouldn't be out looking at this stage (I.. e. After 8 months) as the chances of finding them alive would be next to zero. But ,if say i was... what would i do when i thought i had sighted the site of the body? Would a person get closer to check facts or would a person stay away?. Interested in what people think in terms of the psychology behind it

Respectfully shortened.

That is a very interesting question, @Estella. I am biased as it pertains to DC in this case because my mind has spent a lot of time analyzing whether he could have manipulated ED's remains (from early on) to appear as an accident instead of the suicide I believe may have occurred, and eventually found. But let's say that didn't happen, which is equally possible. I honestly think a long term partner who found the skeletal remains of someone he/she loved deeply would do anything reasonably possible to be present or closer to that location, especially after longing for that moment so long.

 

[SummerSky]

Time to revisit "I think I can see you".

She posted it publicly once and texted him the same phrase shortly before vanishing.

Her cell signal stopped at Pic de Sauvegarde.
Tracking dogs found no scent of her beyond Pic de Sauvegarde.

Her bones were found near Pic de Glere.

Cell signal is actually good between Pic de Sauvegarde & Pic de la Glere.

Why no pings over 72hrs?

Why no dog scenting of her towards Pic de la Glere?

 

[Estella]

Time to revisit "I think I can see you".

She posted it publicly once and texted him the same phrase shortly before vanishing.

Her cell signal stopped at Pic de Sauvegarde.
Tracking dogs found no scent of her beyond Pic de Sauvegarde.

Her bones were found near Pic de Glere.

Cell signal is actually good between Pic de Sauvegarde & Pic de la Glere.

Why no pings over 72hrs?

Why no dog scenting of her towards Pic de la Glere?

I'm pretty sure she is referring to the very good visibility as she says right after "Maybe I can see you!! Such a clear day!!".... BUT how close exactly was he? The media reports 100miles away, but not sure that is all that accurate. Has anyone found the address of the farm house DC was staying at and looked at the actual distance? Before saying "maybe I can see you" she mentions Pic Aneto and Bagneres Luchon suggesting these are the furthest points she can see

 

[SummerSky]

I'm pretty sure she is referring to the very good visibility as she says right after "Maybe I can see you!! Such a clear day!!".... BUT how close exactly was he? The media reports 100miles away, but not sure that is all that accurate. Has anyone found the address of the farm house DC was staying at and looked at the actual distance? Before saying "maybe I can see you" she mentions Pic Aneto and Bagneres Luchon suggesting these are the furthest points she can see

It seems to imply he was in the Bagneres Luchon area. 4hrs walk up to Pic de S.

She had to be cryptic because of lockdown rules?