Michael Jackson

[skysky101]

I think we should separate private and professional you can hate the arse of someone but still admire their music
There's loads of artists who are tainted but have brilliant music

I couldn't listen to a Gary Glitter song in all good conscience.

 

[shellie]

His crisis publicist has done an interview admitting he had books of naked children and ordered videos with them in it. I'll put the relevant stuff I found on Reddit under a spoiler but if you want to see for yourself it's here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/1t1h12h/in_new_interview_michael_jacksons_crisis/

Spoiler: MJ Transcript

He handed me a book and he said it was Michael's. It was all of naked men and things like that. And I said, "Frank, you know, I know Michael from firsthand was fooling around with some of the fans." I said, "Uh, you know, why is he looking at um you know, naked pictures of men?" I said, "It's fine, but you know, you told me Michael's heterosexual. We never Oh, he just looks at it for the artistic value, but I'm hiding it. You know, I'm I'm He's hiding it. He's not like showing it to anyone."

"He's not disclosing anything. So, I said, "All right, Frank, you keep the book. I'll take the bag. I'll bring it to the city." Something struck me wrong.

I stopped at my house. I said, "Let me go. Let me see what he's handing me. I don't know what he's handing me." So, I opened the bag and um I start flipping through it and I found a magazine and it was a a nudist magazine called Naturally.

Um turned out I started flipping through it. I was like, "Okay, it's just pictures of nudist women and adults." And then it flipped to the section um where it was videos of kids, naked kids uh and their families, some with just naked kids uh with circles around Sharpie, black Sharpie circles around the videos to be ordered. I almost had a breakdown. And I literally did have a breakdown because there was pictures of naked kids. I said, "This is what Frank handed And obviously at that time it just snapped.

He was covering up for him. There's something here. Where there's smoke, there's fire. And um turned out uh I didn't bring it into the city yet. I end up going into another attorney. I was very scared at the time. Uh we're in this big case all over the media, all over the globe. Uh, Sergeant Oel had stopped the house and he was on his way back to Santa Barbara, went to another attorney. They immediately picked up the phone to him and said, "Vincent found something that was very concerning, which may be important to you." And he was very disgusted by it. Sergeant Obel says, "I'm on a plane just about getting on the plane back to Santa Barbara. We'll have to meet at a different time."

He gets on the plane. I had an attorney, another attorney. Uh, I still had Joe because I had my information at Joe's office. Uh, turns out I asked, you know, when can I get it back? Um, I stayed with Joe for a bit more. Uh, Techapena, I'm in the office. I wanted to show Joe cuz I tried to convince Joe, you know, also represent me in bringing this to the district attorney's office. You know, he was the one that I chose. He was a high-profile, very strong attorney in New York.

Right at that point, he goes, "Give me the magazine." I said, "No." I I looked next to me and it was Frank that was sitting standing right next to me. So, I wanted to turn this into the district's attorney's office. He kind of got me because he asked for it right in front of Frank. I end up handing it over and that was the last time I've seen it.

The good news is is that when I found this magazine, I took pictures, I documented it. Um, I confronted Frank about it. Frank said that uh this was a phase that him and Michael went through watching these videos and Michael would select these naked children's videos to be ordered uh by Frank and Frank would, you know, facilitate this.

Here is the YT video timestamped:






This is just some of the things taken out of his house when he was arrested. At the time, his fans defended it claiming the books were 'artistic' yet during the trial, some of them were shown and there were pictures of young boys completely naked with everything on show. This isn't the first of people who worked for him who has admitted to knowing and seeing things but as usual, his fans will ignore it and defend him when if it was anyone else, people would rightly be screaming for his head.

 

[Miss Havisham]

The time line of a few things were off, he released History while still married to Lisa marie, yet this made appear they were already divorced.
Thats the one that stood out to me.

I can only see the marriage as an absolute sham. Married in May 94, Presley filed for divorce in January 96.
I have scented diffusers that lasted longer.

There is nothing to suggest that the marriage was authentic in any way, but then it looked very orchestrated - following allegations against him.

 

[Magwitch]

Paris has made it clear she thinks it's nothing more than a cash grab from people who were already wasting his money who don't care if some if not a lot of it is fiction.

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...iticises-sugar-coated-biopic-about-her-father

Pop Bitch is also talking about him today with some known stories that used to go around about him.

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Yeah I remember the Jesus juice and duck butter thing. Revolting. It’s unbelievable to me that some people still think he was innocent. What sane person would think this is all perfectly normal?

 

[Edna Bucket]

I listen to all sorts really, my favourite artists being Queen, Abba, The Beatles, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Rolling stones, Lost Prophets, Aerosmith, you name it, a huge variety.

Lost Prophets? Are you trolling us?

 

[Tothemoonandback]

I was a huge fan of MJs. Stuck up for him over the years re allegations. Thought they were all after his money,he was like a child himself,he never had a childhood etc. Then saw the documentary in Feb. Something inside me switched. I can't look at him now. His music is tainted.

Yes it was a very well done documentary. I believed every word at first too. I'm actually now shocked that channel 4 convicted a dead black man FOR PROFIT with no evidence. I'm not saying Jackson is innocent- obviously I can't say that I wasn't there and Jackson's behaviour with children and obsession with childhood has always been troubling and his family and friends should have intervened as it left all parties so vulnerable.

BUT there's some serious holes in that documentary. In the documentary Safechuck claims to have been abused daily in a trainstation at Jackson's ranch (In the "honeymoon phase"
of his abuse as he called it). It has subsequently transpired was train station was not built until 4 years after Safechuck claims his abuse ended. I've rewatched that scene again from the documentary and now I know that element of it cannot be true the whole thing just doesn't sit right.

The other accuser, Robson, says in the documentary that Jackson "turned him against women" and that Jackson only wanted him as his special friend. Well it now transpires Jackson introduced Robson to his Neice, Brandi Jackson. And Robson and Brandi dated for 8/9 years! Something Robson himself verifies in court documents but this part of the story has been left out of the documentary. Surely it would have been worth Robson mentioning once during a 4 hour documentary that he was dating his abusers niece the whole time he was being abused and apparently being turned against women?

Both these two new accusers got into serious financial difficulty just weeks before claiming to remember abuse. That is suspect. Doesn't mean they're lying but it is suspect.

Robson also claims Jackson's hair felt like a "Brillo Pad" and as many black people on Twitter have pointed out, there can have been no black people involved in the making of this "documentary" as this immediately stands out. Black hair in a jerecho curl doesn't feel like a Brillo pad. Again, that doesn't mean Robson is lying (he could have misremembered this), but it needs to be factored in.

Another element not included in the documentary but that is included in the court documents: Robson's email to his mum asking her for details of his meetings with Jackson. Robson emailed his mum attaching a newspaper article and says in the email "mum is this article true, I don't remember" and Robson's mum replies "wow no none of this is true". Yet Robson goes on to include all the details from the article in his multi million dollar lawsuit anyway!! It's definitely worth reading the court documents - it's fascinating.

Same with Gavin who accused Jackson in 2005. He claimed Jackson tried to kidnap his family in a hot air balloon. The claims got so ridiculous the jury were openly laughing at points.

I just get the feeling that if Gary Glitter had been the one with the money and fame, we’d be here reading about his accusers being liars and wondering if any of the rumours were true. It just seems so easy to cover stuff up if you have the money and are making big dollars for influential people too. If any of us had kids sleeping in our beds for ANY “reasons” we would expect to get locked up and have nobody trust us again

Aside from the OJ Simpson case, I don't know much about any of these other cases that always seem to get put into the mix. Just because Jimmy Saville and Gary Glitter are guilty,it doesn't mean every weird famous guy who gets accused must be to too.

I actually don't really want to make simplistic comparisons but if forced... for a start, Glitter and Saville's accusers all went to the police in the first instance. Indeed with Saville the police and BBC covered it up for years. Contrast this with Jackson where the FBI were investigating Jackson over a ten year period and the police nearly bankrupted the state of Santa Barbara in trying to convict Jackson. They even sent officers to Australia to try and find new accusers. They found no

All of Jackson's accusers have gone to civil lawyers first to seek money. All Jackson accusers have had financial problems. This is the opposite of Saville and Glitter.

If your son had been abused would you want money or justice first? Which would be more important?
I know it doesn't mean these accusers are lying but again it's part of the picture.

Again, personally I want to get away from comparison. Look at each case and each accuser individually. Just because OJ got found "not guilty" doesn't mean all rich people with good lawyers get off. Each case is separate and it's too simplistic to just use a broad brush approach. I know it takes more time but individual research is needed.

 

[Rockin' Robin]

I don't either. Seems a lot feel the same. Look at the success of the movie. No one predicted that. I've seen It twice and think I might go again before the run ends

What does the fact the the film was successful prove? That the Jackson estate have very good PR and lawyers, and have been able to bury the bad publicity?

 

[karenjet]

I watched 20 minutes and couldn’t manage anymore. Descriptions of sexual abuse are hard for me to listen to.

I don’t know what to think. Part of me thinks there’s no smoke without fire.
However, I just cannot my head around the parents. I wouldn’t want my own brothers - who I trust with my life - to sleep in a bed with my child. Not that I’d think for one second anything would happen. It’s just so inappropriate.

 

[annanuttall]

I read a biography back in the 90s on MJ and it was written after the first abuse being public. The book goes into graphic details on the abuse and everything that was written is exactly the same details/stories that are now coming out. I believe these guys and it does break my heart as a huge MJ fan.

 

[shellie]

It’s well-known that MJ was obsessed with Elvis, who was the first global star and the MJ of his day. I think his marriage to Lisa Marie was an attempt to have a part of Elvis for himself so to speak, almost like collecting a living part of him. And he probably relished the status/idea of the King of Pop being married to the daughter of the King of Rock n Roll.

Regarding the jury clearing MJ, I don’t think anyone reasonable would consider that an unbiased trial. The jurors were clearly starstruck with MJ and he was also still incredibly famous and beloved. Let’s be real, a fat Dave from down the road accused of the same crimes would have been convicted without a doubt.

BIB - I've said it earlier in the thread that a few years back there was a show on one of the crime channels going over old controversial cases like OJ & the MJ one where they got some of the jurors together and said knowing what you know now, would you still say the same thing? On the Michael one, there was a woman who admitted to being a MJ fan and lying when asked if she could be impartial. She said she didn't believe a word of it and even if there was 'proof' she would likely still vote him innocent. It's not hard to believe there were others who thought the same thing.

A few of the jurors admitted that as much as they were told to, they couldn't treat it as a normal trial as even friends and family were urging them to do the 'right thing and let him live in peace.' I have seen a few of the jurors do interviews over the years saying there wasn't enough to say he was 100% guilty so they had to go with that but at the same time, with all they saw, they didn't believe for one moment that he was innocent and used his fame and fortune to make sure he would get away with it.

 

[KawaiiAF]

It's so disgusting, and La Toya had been talking about it for years and nobody listened to her. The Jackson family threatened her and treated her like the black sheep.

 

[shellie]

surely the trial shouldnt have been allowed then
this is what google said when i asked if a celeb in trial should have jurys who like their music acting etc

Legally, no; a celebrity should not have a jury composed of people who like them. The goal of a jury trial is to provide an impartial trier of fact, and having a jury packed with fans would create an inherent bias that undermines the core principles of the justice system

They asked potential jurors if they were fans and many either said they weren't or they could be impartial which clearly wasn't true. It happens more than people realise. Everybody wanted a part of the trial, even non fans so it's not a surprise his actual fans were willing to lie so they could be close to him even with what it was.

Generally, when discussing childhood sex abuse, I'm not really inclined to get up and dance, no matter how great the beat is.

Being in a court of law, trying a man for abusing children... I guess that's only fun of the pedalo provides a banging soundtrack.

If you're reading some of the replies in this thread and scratching your heads, remember that people just like that have children, and some will go to great lengths to touch money and fame. If you're wondering how children wound up in bed with MJ, and where were their parents, how could they let this happen?

Very easy to turn your back on the behavior of the King of Pop if you're that damn pathetic. Hell, that Last Prophets creep had women offering him their infants and I'd never even heard of that band before he was busted.

Every corner of the globe knew Micheal Jackson and adored him.

Now, imagine all the things that sick fuck got to do when visiting other countries.

BIB - There is a well known UK singer who has had a lot of accusations thrown at him over the years and even had his home raided but they found nothing. He played the victim and many believed he was innocent but the rumour is after he got his fingers burnt years ago, he stopped shitting in his back yard and only did it in places he knew he could get away with it...countries where there were lots of poor people who he could throw money at to turn the other way. A few people have come forward saying he abused them when they were kids but it was ignored and anytime something turned up online, it was quickly deleted because he was part of a wider circle.

 

[GiggleBee]

I don't believe any of it. They're doing it for the money. MJ is dead and he now can't defend himself.

 

[Oohthedrama]

Ok I’ve not watched this yet but my opinion right now.

These two guys I wouldn’t trust and the documentary seems to be based around them more than anything? Stories and accusations that were told/made were made with no way to prove if they were true, as there was only 2 people involved every time. The 2 guys were in contact behind the scenes before the documentary came out am I right?
And this seems off. It also looks like the director had in his mind what way he wanted this to go, so his narrative was always going to be that the abuse happened. Regardless of facts.

Apparently none of the Jackson family were given the chance to speak out or be involved in the documentary? I don’t think they could make much of a difference but I do think they should have had the chance to speak.
I’m on the fence on this one because of the people involved and how sketchy they seem.
Like @Web30 has said, if you can’t trust the source it’s hard to believe the facts.
Interested to see if my opinion changes after watching it.

I think we can all agree MJ was talented as fuck.
But so fucking messed up. He was a danger to himself from the day he became Michael Jackson.
And carried most of his family from childhood. His own childhood was screwed up, I’d be surprised if that didn’t leak into his adult life. But allegations are just that right now. Who knows. I feel sorry for his kids right now

 

[Youtubegossip]

His own neice... Who dated wade for 7 years has comeout saying its all lies.

Of course one of MJ’s family wouldn’t just stick up for their uncle?

Don’t get me wrong I love his music as much as the next person but if ‘roger from down the street had boys sleeping over at his house for weeks on end. In his bed, with him’ we’d all be fine about that would we???

 

[PineappleQueen19]

Some parents will have been groomed for sure.

Others are greedy and evil and have no issue pimping their kids out for money. Happens everywhere sadly.

 

[shellie]

Safechuck wanted his wedding at Neverland. Weird to want to get married at a place you were allegedly abused at isn't it?

Every victim is different so it isn't really that straight forward. Some realise at the time it's wrong but are too scared to say anything, some bottle it up then later in life admit to it because some kind of trigger brings everything back. Then there are whose who go to the grave denying everything even if there is evidence proving otherwise.

Here is a page explaining why so many victims defend their abusers/groomers.

6 Stages of Grooming Adults and Teens: Spotting The Red Flags | Skills for Health

There are different types of grooming - sometimes carried out by an individual to an individual, such as online grooming and child sexual abuse, and other times it is executed by a group of conspiring perpetrators.

www.skillsforhealth.org.uk

 

[Horatio]

Yeah having watched it I don’t know how there can be much doubt, honestly. I found it totally horrifying but tragically credible. The two of them are clearly so deeply psychologically affected part of them still seems to love and revere him to this day - I don’t see someone lieing showing that complexity of emotional scarring.

And this article by the director is very eloquent.
It also addresses the money and testifying in his defence arguments.

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...michael-jackson-abuser?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[Dotty Merton]

These photo's...

http://archive.today/f9A4P

 

[Prince fan 1999]

I was a huge fan of MJs. Stuck up for him over the years re allegations. Thought they were all after his money,he was like a child himself,he never had a childhood etc. Then saw the documentary in Feb. Something inside me switched. I can't look at him now. His music is tainted.