Michael Jackson

[Midsummer Son]

And ignoring all the showbiz stuff - a serial child predator snagging up a newly divorced woman with serious daddy issues and then him controlling and manipulating her into having children... Just seems like a nasty set up.

Wouldn't be the first time on that mess either, I've seen in happen irl - my good friend was targeted because her mother was extremely vulnerable and had been abused in her youth herself. That predator smell opportunity all over that family, and my friend wound up being drugged and sexually abused over the next 4 years, starting when she was 12.

Her abuser was also, of course, backed by his family who then harassed her for years, calling her a liar and a manipulative slut. So watching people cape for MJ, when he's broadcast his predatory ways again and again and again, is twisted as hell. He's a textbook pedalo, at the time one of the richest, most powerful, and most famous people in the world, people worshipped him.

But yeah, nothing to see here folks. He just didn't have a childhood

I’ve always hated the “he didn’t have a childhood” excuse. Two things can be true, he had a shit childhood but still ended up a päedo. The childhood abuse can explain his adult behaviour but it doesn’t excuse it. Adult MJ had an adult mind, he wasn’t trapped as a psychological child. He knew how to manipulate, lie and take advantage of his fame to get parents to part with their children. Didn’t he even have alarms that would let him know if people were approaching his room? Yes, he was damaged and it’s known that abused people often end up as abusers themselves, but that’s still a choice they make.

 

[KawaiiAF]

It's so disgusting, and La Toya had been talking about it for years and nobody listened to her. The Jackson family threatened her and treated her like the black sheep.

 

[Midsummer Son]

I doubt they were up having a party in the court room, I think anyone would find it had not to have a little seat dance to most music.
I didnt realise the documentary was played as evidence, surely they should have shown unedited footage that was concerning if they had to show anything related to Martin Bashier

It wouldn’t be hard at all. An adult is perfectly able to not move an inch or “seat dance” to music in the context of a child abuse trial, the same way you wouldn’t “seat dance” in a job interview or any other remotely serious situation. Can’t believe I’m reading this…

 

[Miss Havisham]

Anyway,14 counts of not guilty so why are we still going on about it,17 years after his death FFS??

Because his behaviour was so suspicious (as well as abnormal) and he was very manipulative.
People will continue to talk about it, especially as information comes out over the years.

Perhaps not all of his accusers will be believed (and likely that some may be false), but many of them will be. Not all of them going to court - and some may never speak of it all.

Sexual assault (especially some time after the event) is sadly, very hard to prove. It’s a fact, that many cases don’t reach court - and if they do, proving guilt is not always straightforward.

 

[skysky101]

I think we should separate private and professional you can hate the arse of someone but still admire their music
There's loads of artists who are tainted but have brilliant music

I couldn't listen to a Gary Glitter song in all good conscience.

 

[GiggleBee]

I don't believe any of it. They're doing it for the money. MJ is dead and he now can't defend himself.

 

[Magwitch]

Paris has made it clear she thinks it's nothing more than a cash grab from people who were already wasting his money who don't care if some if not a lot of it is fiction.

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...iticises-sugar-coated-biopic-about-her-father

Pop Bitch is also talking about him today with some known stories that used to go around about him.

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Yeah I remember the Jesus juice and duck butter thing. Revolting. It’s unbelievable to me that some people still think he was innocent. What sane person would think this is all perfectly normal?

 

[Edna Bucket]

I listen to all sorts really, my favourite artists being Queen, Abba, The Beatles, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Rolling stones, Lost Prophets, Aerosmith, you name it, a huge variety.

Lost Prophets? Are you trolling us?

 

[Rockin' Robin]

I don't either. Seems a lot feel the same. Look at the success of the movie. No one predicted that. I've seen It twice and think I might go again before the run ends

What does the fact the the film was successful prove? That the Jackson estate have very good PR and lawyers, and have been able to bury the bad publicity?

 

[shellie]

Safechuck wanted his wedding at Neverland. Weird to want to get married at a place you were allegedly abused at isn't it?

Every victim is different so it isn't really that straight forward. Some realise at the time it's wrong but are too scared to say anything, some bottle it up then later in life admit to it because some kind of trigger brings everything back. Then there are whose who go to the grave denying everything even if there is evidence proving otherwise.

Here is a page explaining why so many victims defend their abusers/groomers.

6 Stages of Grooming Adults and Teens: Spotting The Red Flags | Skills for Health

There are different types of grooming - sometimes carried out by an individual to an individual, such as online grooming and child sexual abuse, and other times it is executed by a group of conspiring perpetrators.

www.skillsforhealth.org.uk

 

[karenjet]

I watched 20 minutes and couldn’t manage anymore. Descriptions of sexual abuse are hard for me to listen to.

I don’t know what to think. Part of me thinks there’s no smoke without fire.
However, I just cannot my head around the parents. I wouldn’t want my own brothers - who I trust with my life - to sleep in a bed with my child. Not that I’d think for one second anything would happen. It’s just so inappropriate.

 

[Horatio]

Yeah having watched it I don’t know how there can be much doubt, honestly. I found it totally horrifying but tragically credible. The two of them are clearly so deeply psychologically affected part of them still seems to love and revere him to this day - I don’t see someone lieing showing that complexity of emotional scarring.

And this article by the director is very eloquent.
It also addresses the money and testifying in his defence arguments.

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...michael-jackson-abuser?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[annanuttall]

I read a biography back in the 90s on MJ and it was written after the first abuse being public. The book goes into graphic details on the abuse and everything that was written is exactly the same details/stories that are now coming out. I believe these guys and it does break my heart as a huge MJ fan.

 

[Dotty Merton]

These photo's...

http://archive.today/f9A4P

 

[Prince fan 1999]

I was a huge fan of MJs. Stuck up for him over the years re allegations. Thought they were all after his money,he was like a child himself,he never had a childhood etc. Then saw the documentary in Feb. Something inside me switched. I can't look at him now. His music is tainted.

 

[Dexy]

Oh look they’ve run out of money again… Here’s docu number 2 - fans are harassing us but let’s go sue the estate ( again - what’s this third or fourth time ?? ) and we’ll do ANOTHER documentary talking about our abuse. Who does this?! Ffs how can people not see it’s all a money grab?! No one relives their “ abuse “ and “ trauma “ over and over again. Unless it didn’t fucking happen. I’m sorry, I speak as someone who has been sexually assaulted twice on two separate occasions. I can’t even discuss what was done to me. I use distance language and I certainly wouldn’t want any money from either of them!
Sick fucks the lot of them.

 

[Upintheair83]

Iv said on here before, there wasn't a bigger MJ fan than me- I even named my son after him. When I was little I never believed the allegations, however since I became a mum and iv got older I have changed my view on some things. I now look at his need and desire to hang around with so many kids as really concerning and unhealthy. But then I do stop and think about his own upbringing. He was born in Gary Indiana, and the house he shared with all his brothers and sisters only had 2 bedrooms. They shared beds and so his memories of his 'normal' childhood would have held this core memory, hence his insistence on sharing a bed being 'normal' I feel sorry for Michael as a little boy because he was a little boy that should have been protected, like most children stars. But instead he was beaten by his dad, forced to be the perfect performer, dragged around sketchy clubs and then sold to the highest bidders. He didnt have peers around him to have a benchmark for social development, he was around older men in the music business. Men with money and power, who promised him 'i can make you the biggest star' ...He was a little black boy in a country and time that was still dealing with racism quite heavily. Iv always believed that he most probably was sexually abused as a child- and I think as he entered his later teenage years his hormones and trauma of that caused him to be withdrawn and developed his 'weirdness' that we see in later life. He obviously never dealt with the trauma and because he became so powerful and wealthy he did what he wanted and there was no one there for him to answer to. And because of his success from an early age I really don't think we can compare him to a normal person. He was the most famous man on earth, reclusive and surrounded by sycophants. Can you imagine how this develops your personality? He would have been a raging narcissist for a start. And I think that unfortunately, all of these issues and his arrested development were displayed in his weirdness.i also think his skin disorder and his plastic surgery made his outer appearance seem just as bizzare as his personality which didn't help the public to understand him. We couldn't understand him because he was so far removed from our own lives.
But my heart breaks for that little boy that he once was. If we can have sympathy for his alleged victims, surely we must extend our sympathy to him as a little boy. They were all victims.
Do I think he was a PDF? I think he always displayed red flags, you would be silly to think he didn't. There's no way I'd have allowed my son around him. Did he act on his PDF feelings? Again, who knows. I wasnt there. I don't find many of his accusers credible- there are too many holes jn their testimony and they always seem to go after the money. If someone came out who didn't have anything to gain financially then I would find that more concerning. I never liked his protestations that he 'never hurt a child' I'd have much preferred him to say 'I never sexually abused a child' and I always felt it quite telling that he was so emphatic with that statement 'I would kill myself before I hurt a child' because I believe he was being truthful here, he wouldn't ever physically hurt a child. It's almost like an admission of guilt in his denial. Because he doesn't actually address the sexual allegations does he? I'd love to see a statement analysis on his denials.
I think he made terrible decisions and had no emotional intelligence, he just acted like a grown toddler who demanded everything his own way. He didn't like to be told no.
If he was a PDF I dont think he ever believed he was one, I think he was in denial of a lot of things in his life. I find it sad that the most famous black man in the world, who paved the way for so many black artists ended up drug addicted and died as a result of it. Its the same story all over the world now....look at skid row...thousands upon thousands of men and women, who had abuse in childhood, who live and die for their next fix....Michael was just the same. Joe Jackson wanted so much more for his son, but look where he ended up.

 

[shellie]

It’s well-known that MJ was obsessed with Elvis, who was the first global star and the MJ of his day. I think his marriage to Lisa Marie was an attempt to have a part of Elvis for himself so to speak, almost like collecting a living part of him. And he probably relished the status/idea of the King of Pop being married to the daughter of the King of Rock n Roll.

Regarding the jury clearing MJ, I don’t think anyone reasonable would consider that an unbiased trial. The jurors were clearly starstruck with MJ and he was also still incredibly famous and beloved. Let’s be real, a fat Dave from down the road accused of the same crimes would have been convicted without a doubt.

BIB - I've said it earlier in the thread that a few years back there was a show on one of the crime channels going over old controversial cases like OJ & the MJ one where they got some of the jurors together and said knowing what you know now, would you still say the same thing? On the Michael one, there was a woman who admitted to being a MJ fan and lying when asked if she could be impartial. She said she didn't believe a word of it and even if there was 'proof' she would likely still vote him innocent. It's not hard to believe there were others who thought the same thing.

A few of the jurors admitted that as much as they were told to, they couldn't treat it as a normal trial as even friends and family were urging them to do the 'right thing and let him live in peace.' I have seen a few of the jurors do interviews over the years saying there wasn't enough to say he was 100% guilty so they had to go with that but at the same time, with all they saw, they didn't believe for one moment that he was innocent and used his fame and fortune to make sure he would get away with it.

 

[2xblended]

And why would it be Jackson in particular getting picked on - why would he unfairly be targeted when many people as famous - let’s say Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, that sort of level to name two he worked with - rarely have anyone accuse them of anything?

I think a part of that is just how 'alien' Jackson was, and how easy it was to pin any sort of outlandish claim on him due to his eccentric ways.
Not to mention, Neverland Ranch being an open house to anyone who waned to go there meant it was easier to claim it was the setting/location of abuse...other celebs weren't as willing to let fans into their homes.
And before people say that open house policy incriminates him, I want to point out that the ranch was open to adults and children, and just about anyone who wanted to enter was granted permission to visit and stay. This has been documented over the years- he just wanted people to have a bit of the escapism that he himself needed so badly.
I have no idea if he's innocent or guilty, I cried with the Leaving Neverland documentary and believed them. But once I started digging deeper, there were a lot of details from the accusers that did not prove true in the end. Seeing that alternative documentary posted above- it showed facts without the emotional manipulation, and it confirmed a lot of what I'd read... It makes all those claims seem like a witch hunt and money grab, unfortunately.

 

[Venuslurker]

I saw that, found it intresting. The only bit that I wish he hadn't said was that he believes Bill Cosbys innocent and he defended him as well.

Oh lol well that tells you everything