Michael Jackson

[messytessy]

Yes he does, iv been a lifelong fan and I have the original broadcast of the documentary that I recorded live the night it aired. The you tube clips are not in its entirety.
I think its so easy with documentaries to fall on either side. Some are too biased towards MJ and some too accusatory. I think the best documentary in recent years is the BBC one.
I feel like iv read every word ever written on MJ, good and bad -and I still don't really know. As you say, he did things that were extremely questionable and he has got some grooming patterns in there too. But I just don't know if he actually did the molestation that hes been accused of.

Even if he didn't sexually abuse children, it cannot be denied that he groomed children and their families, and developed inappropriate relationships with young boys. This alone should be enough for his music to never be played again imo. If it was any other male music star showing the same behaviours today, they would be cancelled immediately.

 

[GingerSquid]

Why are you talking about children abuse? There were always only BOYS. There is well documented history of his special friends- holding hands, sitting together,…. Always boys, boys, boys…. I loved his music as a kid/ teenager/ young woman. As a mother of three sons,who saw these pictures, I turn off the radio when I hear his music. His eccentricity is no excuse for the abuse. His fame Is still protecting him. You don’t want be the mother of the boy in Bashir interview. For me the police interview with the boy is enough to believe the children-boys.

Yes! As a mother of boys too, it really frustrates me when people seem to minimise these situations with male youth vs female. He was clearly attracted to young boys of a certain age. Approaching puberty, but pre-pubescent. They found orders of naked child videos at his house? How is that not evidence?! If this was a white male 90s pop star with the same age GIRLS, they would be immediately banned and cancelled- imagine if Robbie Williams or Justin Timberlake had toured with a 12 year old girl sharing his bed. Photos with her sitting on his lap acting like a couple! “Oh nothing to see here, he just likes the company of young girls and it’s due to him missing out on his teenage years due to joining Take That at 15 / Disney Club at 10 / insert child star situation as an excuse!

 

[Sassie]

I’m not worked up at all. I’m happy for peoples opinions as I am an all threads. No one has to agree.

The reason I mentioned Jimmy Saville was because someone said if a person is dead their alleged crimes should be laid to rest with them which I disagree with and as per your point here we’re all allowed difference of opinions.

Ps. 1000000% isn’t a thing. Max is 100% ? that’s tongue in cheek incase I have to clarify

Slightly off topic, but .. I have a holiday home in Scarborough (a small seaside resort in the UK).

Jimmy Savile lived there, and was pretty much hailed a hero. When he passed away he was given what was close to a state funeral send off, memorials were erected all over the town (street signs, plaque on his flat, etc) and he was awarded a Freedom of Scarborough honour. He was adored in his home town (predominantly by the older generation!).

Once the massive abuse scandal broke, anything and everything containing his name was removed. Even his headstone was taken down and sent to landfill.

He was once the talk of the town (even after he’d died), but now it’s like everyone acts like he didn’t exist. I was in a pub close to his home last year, and a guy struck up a conversation with a local about him .. the tumbleweed was unreal, and he abruptly left (think he thought he was going to get a good hiding ?).

Basically, in that huge warble, I guess what I’m trying to say is .. the mighty fall extremely hard.

For the record, he ALWAYS gave me the chills .. especially when he wore his marathon gear ?

 

[Yano]

Why would he need to make friends with young boys when he literally had 3 children of his own? If it was all about being a kid again then firstly, why would a kid want the responsibility of 3 kids to take care of and secondly....whys hes spending his time with random kids and not his own?

 

[AlexTwist]

I don't think the Peter Pan theory holds any weight either when MJ clearly at least understood adult matters and sexuality and used them in his music and videos. Besides, if he was mentally a child then his fans were supporting the exploitation of him. Can't have it both ways - if he was so mentally impaired then why was he touring, doing business etc.

This is something I've often thought. Many people, including Paul McCartney have told stories about how ruthless MJ was in business. So many people who met him say his regular voice was deeper. Lisa Marie said they had a normal sex life during their marriage. His music videos were often overtly sexual, and he often seemed incredibly angry in them. Start adding these anecdotes together and you start moving further and further away from this Peter Pan theory.

Another thing I've thought about the whole situation is, even some of the kids he befriended who support him to this day, all seem to say they lost regular contact with him once they grew up. Even if nothing sexual occurred, surely the concept of befriending kids, travelling on tour with them, being their best friend, then ditching them once they got too old, is abusive in itself?

 

[Okivia2020]

I think he had a god like complex. You only have to look back and see how he walked around with the umbrella, he wants three kids, he got them, he wants a playground built for him in his house, done, he wants to change his skin colour, ok we can make that happen. I don’t buy all that child like behaviour with his “Peter Pan” stuff and his high pitched innocent voice and do believe he abused young boys. It can also be true he had a messed up childhood. He also did have some great songs. I don’t think he would get away with it these days

 

[samwilzrhcp]

Money talks, he was a peadophile.

 

[MarshMallowMonster]

He said openly there was nothing wrong with having kids in his bed.

Star struck parents enabled it.

If Dave the Plumber down the road did that there would be an outcry but as it was MJ it was fine. The king of pop, the dude who never grew up.

I believe he abused kids, hid in plain sight and paid off whoever. Epstein shows that money and power is enough to shroud crimes.

MJ did the same for sure.

Great musician and dancer, but definitely a paedophile.

 

[Upintheair83]

Alot of fans dont like Lisa Marie because she bashed MJ after their divorce....but actually a few years before Lisa Marie's death, she did an interview where she talked about MJ...she said any anger she had towards him had subsided and she felt deep regret she couldn't 'save him'
She said she was the only one who could even comprehend the fame and the problems that come from fame, because it was so similar to her dad's level of fame. She said both lived in an ivory tower where they could pick up and dispose of people at their will. A place where they were surrounded by sycophants and where there was no accountability.....why anyone would ever want fame is beyond me. Lisa lost alot for the price of fame, I hope she's at peace with her dad and son now.

 

[Tangerine Cat]

I think the film is typical Jacksons- using MJ to get their money rolling in.
I do think its nice for Prince and Blanket to celebrate their dad for his musical achievements. They've lived most of their lives hearing the allegations about their father, discussing their father as though he wasn't their dad just because they dont share the same DNA. And so, for them, I'm really pleased they can celebrate him and what he achieved in his professional life and have something that isnt tainted with controversy.
Whatever anyone thinks of MJ now, he was a pioneer in the music industry, especially for black artists and his achievements in music were groundbreaking. He was genius.

I was a massive fan of MJ but as iv grown older, I do see him in a more 'real' light now. He displayed massive red flags and I certainly wouldn't have allowed him near my child.
Every box of how to spot a predator, he does tick.....having said that I do strongly believe that Michael was a victim himself.
I really believe when he was little boy he was most probably abused. (I don't mean just by his father, I think the physical abuse was separate) But he was a young kid, in rooms and studios with older men. Powerful men. And we only have to look at Epstein and the rumours that go around in hollywood about powerful men...He would also be on the road with his brothers from a young age, in nightclubs- around all sorts of men. Safeguarding wasn't really a thing back then either. You only have to see how damaged Justin Bieber is now, to see how child stars are almost doomed from the start. I'm not excusing his behaviour, I'm not saying that the abused always abuse either. Because they don't.
I dont think Michael was a 'normal' person, with 'normal' experiences either, so it's almost inevitable that he turned out the way he did. I think alot of his eccentricities bore out of him not understanding himself -He was a total narcissist, ego driven, he wasn't emotionally intelligent either- he seemed stuck emotionally in his teenage years with no one ever really on his side, or to look out for him or to guide him. And so il be honest, I do feel sorry for the young Michael Jackson, that little boy who did just want to play- I don't think he ever had a chance, and I think he was pimped out in more ways than one. I'm not condoning his choices as an adult at all, but I will always have empathy for him as a child.
I don't believe all of his accusers either, there are some I really struggle to take seriously but I do think they should all have their voices heard and people to make their own minds up- every victim should be listened to.
But Michael Jackson never stood a chance either.

I think the same as I always have. He abused those boys because they knew about the vitiligo marks on his penis. There’s no excuse for that.

I still think he’s the reason Macauley Culkin went off the rails but he’s not going to come out and say anything because MJ’s weird fans would hound him and nobody would be interested in giving him a job anymore because admitting abuse hasn’t helped anyone’s career has it?

He groomed the world talking about his abusive childhood though. I don’t buy that he wanted to play with children because he didn’t have a childhood himself, he still had choices like we all have and most of us choose not to repeat the mistakes. We still grow up and want to have adult experiences rather than childhood ones. Having said that I do recognise all of his family seem to be very strange.

Michael was a hard nosed businessman when he wanted to be, the only thing I‘m not surprised about is that he ended up on drugs and dead much earlier than he should have.

He’s a mercurial character though, I can still appreciate his music - well everything before Bad was incredible, after that it all went a bit meh.

 

[Soncna]

In the past there was an online blog about Michael and all his special young friends. With the timeline of all his relationships. When I read it and especially after seeing all the pictures (in private and Public setting) I do not need a court to convince me he was a p…. As a mother of three boys I would never allow any adult man to display such inappropriate behaviour to my children.

 

[Youtubegossip]

Because they all come out of the woodwork. Look at Jimmy Saville and how many have come out and claimed he did something to them. Yes half of them may have had something happen but the other half are only in it for the money.

You know that for a FACT do you?

Also from what I understand this documentary focuses around 4 boys. All of who ‘came out of the woodwork’ years and years ago and their parents took money to be silenced didn’t they???

 

[oatmealpieface]

He was a paed, the backbending fans will do to excuse him is wack. I loved a lot of his music, honestly I still listen to some of it, they are an undeniable indelible part of musical history. But I can still acknowledge he was a nounce. There is so much similarity in victim testimony. He groomed children and their families; I don't believe he nonced every child he hung out with (like Mark Ronson, mentioned above) but he would test them by eg exposing them to pronography and seeing what he could get away with and which children were more vulnerable or had parents he could fool. He had an alarm system set up so that if anyone approached his bedroom he'd have plenty of notice. His housekeeper warned people to keep their kids away from him. He was pictured with a never ending string of young boys who mysteriously stopped hanging out with him after a certain age. HE LITERALLY SAID WITH HIS OWN MOUTH HE SHARED A BED WITH KIDS. I would not be surprised if some of the details were inaccurate, some of Wade's words sound a bit off to me, but no matter the intimate details it is irrefutable he had sick and inappropriate relationships with children he groomed. He was a nounce. Occams razor.

 

[Magwitch]

He said he slept on the floor, that part always gets missed out / glossed over

Right, because it’s perfectly normal for an adult man to share a room with a young boy he is not related to. Ugh.

 

[Abominatrix]

But couldn't any jury who liled any popstar do this but p diddy is in prison how many other celebs have been in prison

That's always the risk taken when trying the rich and famous - juror loyalties to them could twist things. However, no one in the world was ever as famous and beloved as Michael Jackson, there's no arguing that. People were and still are obsessed with proving his innocence, because he occupied a place in their hearts.

The world was obsessed with Micheal, people were fainting at his concerts, all over the world. Diddy is not the same.

Also a reminder that there is video footage of R Kelly urinating on a 14 year old girl, whom he was sexually abusing far further than that, and people vociferously defended him for decades.

It has taken a long, long time to get where we are as far as the public accepting these abuses, and the trial against Jackson then would not be at all the same as a trial against him now.

ETA: another reminder that OJ Simpson walked. That does not mean he was innocent. For every celebrity in prison, there's a dozen whose status protected them from consequences.

 

[Handerton]

I just get the feeling that if Gary Glitter had been the one with the money and fame, we’d be here reading about his accusers being liars and wondering if any of the rumours were true. It just seems so easy to cover stuff up if you have the money and are making big dollars for influential people too. If any of us had kids sleeping in our beds for ANY “reasons” we would expect to get locked up and have nobody trust us again

 

[Miss Havisham]

Lots of manipulation on MJ’s part - but also downright arrogance and entitlement. Perhaps that comes down to being a global superstar, and not an ordinary Joe.

The marriage to Lisa Marie Presley (that lasted months), just after the initial allegations. Bizarre that LMP went through with it, when she must have known that she was being manipulated - perhaps she wasn’t in a good place.

It would be no surprise, if false allegations are mixed in with actual abuse. The families involved were willing to hand their children over to an adult man, because he was rich and famous (so very money driven) - it seems inevitable that they could make allegations regardless.
But still, it continued - having boys sleeping with him, unsupervised by another adult. Despite allegations it continued (much to the horror of MJs advisers and associates).
I feel that this was manipulation. In plain sight and the feeling / belief that he was above everybody else - and everything / anything can be bought.

Evidence that a child has accessed pornography in an adults home is a raging red flag and abusive in itself. It’s a known tool by paedophiles to manipulate, groom and abuse children for their own needs.

 

[uwu]

Now we all know MJ was a bit weird and creepy which made he him do some unusual things, but the fact not one piece of evidence of child molestation was found by the FBI over a 10 or so year period of them investigating him makes me wonder why these two men have come out now. Wade Robson already seemed a bit shady and was still praising MJ for many years after his death and then apparently wakes up one day and says he was abused. Kinda seems a bit fishy, also in court documents he says he has to ask him mum many times what exactly happened to him.

I don't really know what to believe if I'm being honest because it's literally their word against a dead man with no actual evidence to back up any of their claims.

 

[Abominatrix]

She married him days after the divorce from her previous husband - with her mother warning against marrying him, concerned she was being used.

They divorced quickly - with LMP citing his controlling behaviour. It’s well documented that he was pressuring her into having children (she already had two) and she feared that she would be then dumped with a custody battle to follow. She said he was controlling and isolated her.

As for her maintaining a connection to him following the divorce, I’m sure there were complexities - but they were literally married for a year. Likely that the year that they were married, was not normal in any sense.

The overall impression is that she was used and also seemed vulnerable.

Not the first sham showbiz marriage - and certainly wasn’t the last.

And ignoring all the showbiz stuff - a serial child predator snagging up a newly divorced woman with serious daddy issues and then him controlling and manipulating her into having children... Just seems like a nasty set up.

Wouldn't be the first time on that mess either, I've seen in happen irl - my good friend was targeted because her mother was extremely vulnerable and had been abused in her youth herself. That predator smell opportunity all over that family, and my friend wound up being drugged and sexually abused over the next 4 years, starting when she was 12.

Her abuser was also, of course, backed by his family who then harassed her for years, calling her a liar and a manipulative slut. So watching people cape for MJ, when he's broadcast his predatory ways again and again and again, is twisted as hell. He's a textbook pedalo, at the time one of the richest, most powerful, and most famous people in the world, people worshipped him.

But yeah, nothing to see here folks. He just didn't have a childhood

 

[Miss Havisham]

Michael is 100% innocent. People say “ innocent untill proven guilty “ he was proven innocent yet people still insist on dragging this up all the time. these people claiming years later are after one thing and that is money.

Let the man rest.

How does proven innocent work? It’s not the same as not guilty.

Unfortunately, many SA cases don’t even make it to prosecution stage - and if they do, they are notoriously difficult to prove.