Michael Jackson

[Abominatrix]

I think we should separate private and professional you can hate the arse of someone but still admire their music
There's loads of artists who are tainted but have brilliant music

What I wish would come of stuff like this is people would stop worshipping celebrities. Love their output, their talent, but understand that these are strangers with their own closets full of skeletons.

I know that will never happen, but it's the only solution that really makes sense. I adorded Jackson as a child, being raised on Jackson 5 and his own music, I remember excitedly waiting for the big premieres of his videos Black or White and Remember the Time. Absolutely loved Moonwalker, minus the story parts because that's shit odd as hell. But he turns into a damn car and flies away! Loved it.

He got weirder as we got older, and the accusations came out and boy do I believe every bit. Neverland was a nightmare place and grown men are very often sick fucks. Still love his music, would be happy to never see his face again.

 

[Ivegone]

I just want to say is anyone surprised so many parents demanded money when they were the kind of parents who let their kids sleep in Jackson's bed tbw??

Absolutely shitty parenting. 90s parenting was awful that's why we all have anxiety etc but they basically handed their kids to him

 

[Upintheair83]

I've said it earlier in the thread but a few of the jurors were asked and they said the same thing...there wasn't enough to prove to them he was 100% guilty but they didn't think he was innocent either. Then there was also the fact that at least one juror should never have been there to begin with as she lied and claimed not to be a fan/could be partial, then years later in a show about celeb cases and jurors being asked with what they now know, would they still say the same thing, admitted she was always gonna find him not guilty.

A great comment ...This is why I agree with Pat Brown's belief that jurors shouldn't just be picked at random, that their should be roles made especially for being a juror. With training, so people know how to analyse things in an objective way. Something a lot of people seem to lack nowadays.

 

[shellie]

surely the trial shouldnt have been allowed then
this is what google said when i asked if a celeb in trial should have jurys who like their music acting etc

Legally, no; a celebrity should not have a jury composed of people who like them. The goal of a jury trial is to provide an impartial trier of fact, and having a jury packed with fans would create an inherent bias that undermines the core principles of the justice system

They asked potential jurors if they were fans and many either said they weren't or they could be impartial which clearly wasn't true. It happens more than people realise. Everybody wanted a part of the trial, even non fans so it's not a surprise his actual fans were willing to lie so they could be close to him even with what it was.

Generally, when discussing childhood sex abuse, I'm not really inclined to get up and dance, no matter how great the beat is.

Being in a court of law, trying a man for abusing children... I guess that's only fun of the pedalo provides a banging soundtrack.

If you're reading some of the replies in this thread and scratching your heads, remember that people just like that have children, and some will go to great lengths to touch money and fame. If you're wondering how children wound up in bed with MJ, and where were their parents, how could they let this happen?

Very easy to turn your back on the behavior of the King of Pop if you're that damn pathetic. Hell, that Last Prophets creep had women offering him their infants and I'd never even heard of that band before he was busted.

Every corner of the globe knew Micheal Jackson and adored him.

Now, imagine all the things that sick fuck got to do when visiting other countries.

BIB - There is a well known UK singer who has had a lot of accusations thrown at him over the years and even had his home raided but they found nothing. He played the victim and many believed he was innocent but the rumour is after he got his fingers burnt years ago, he stopped shitting in his back yard and only did it in places he knew he could get away with it...countries where there were lots of poor people who he could throw money at to turn the other way. A few people have come forward saying he abused them when they were kids but it was ignored and anytime something turned up online, it was quickly deleted because he was part of a wider circle.

 

[Piff paff puff]

Paris prince and bigi have stated they are biological children of Michael, whether that’s true or not the children believe they are either way and it should be left as that. Blood or not Michael is their father

Well I'm glad they think that and that they're happy. If they want to recognise him as their dad in whichever way they like they have every right. Just as we have the right to comment on a forum what we think about it all. He was maybe a great dad, the best dad anyone had ever had and that's all that matters to them. However I don't think he was, as you wouldn't dangle a baby from a high window if you were and even less so if that was your biological child, it would go against your maternal/paternal instincts. As for the biological point yes ofc you can be a parent without being related to your children.

 

[MarshMallowMonster]

Plenty of people have shitty childhoods with horrible abuse.

That’s no excuse to welcome and encourage little kids into your bed. Mostly male kids.

MJ had a type for his muses, he didn’t abuse all of them, just the ones he thought he would be able to.

Not all paedophiles will abuse all kids they have access to, there are carefully selected victims.

MJ’s abuse of kids was so normal he felt able to say multiple times how natural it is to share his bed with kids, under guise of Slumber Party.

Parents who were stupid or vulnerable enough to be paid off welcomed invitations from MJ for their sons to share his bed. Grooming takes many forms.

A CSA or SA victim always has a time when they feel strong enough to tell. There could be a trigger such as parenthood, other victims speaking out, a trauma.

The MJ force is big, and they have money to keep any negativity suppressed. The fan cult who will threaten and terrorize, are reasons not to speak out.

For sure there are other victims out there. MJ found young boys attractive. His marriage to LM was a sham. And he never had sex with Debbie Rowe.

Ugh.

 

[2xblended]

I can understand both sides of this, but for those just condemning Jackson based on the Leaving Neverland documentary- would you please watch the Square One documentary posted? It makes for a fairer picture overall. It's filled with facts whilst the former is purposefully leading people by emotions in the absence of hard facts. Both of them together provide a clearer picture.

The other thing to note (which I think others have mentioned before me) is that MJ was investigated 20 times (or some such insane number) by the FBI but they found absolutely nothing incriminating against him and said so repeatedly.
It's not like Weinstein where the local police and press were on his payroll and covered up for him (I think I read that tidbit in 'Catch and Kill'). This wasn't a coverup by a local police station (because none of the accusers or their families ever informed the police or filed a criminal case against Jackson). This was various departments in the FBI each coming up empty when they raided MJ and his family's homes repeatedly.

Guilty or innocent, nobody will know for sure, and I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was swayed by the documentary and then found the facts to mostly be proven false. I appreciate a counter documentary that aims to present a more factually researched picture of what occurred (and since this is a "documentary" and not fiction, I am shocked that Leaving Neverland didn't get fact checked).

 

[Oohthedrama]

Ok I’ve not watched this yet but my opinion right now.

These two guys I wouldn’t trust and the documentary seems to be based around them more than anything? Stories and accusations that were told/made were made with no way to prove if they were true, as there was only 2 people involved every time. The 2 guys were in contact behind the scenes before the documentary came out am I right?
And this seems off. It also looks like the director had in his mind what way he wanted this to go, so his narrative was always going to be that the abuse happened. Regardless of facts.

Apparently none of the Jackson family were given the chance to speak out or be involved in the documentary? I don’t think they could make much of a difference but I do think they should have had the chance to speak.
I’m on the fence on this one because of the people involved and how sketchy they seem.
Like @Web30 has said, if you can’t trust the source it’s hard to believe the facts.
Interested to see if my opinion changes after watching it.

I think we can all agree MJ was talented as fuck.
But so fucking messed up. He was a danger to himself from the day he became Michael Jackson.
And carried most of his family from childhood. His own childhood was screwed up, I’d be surprised if that didn’t leak into his adult life. But allegations are just that right now. Who knows. I feel sorry for his kids right now

 

[Youtubegossip]

His own neice... Who dated wade for 7 years has comeout saying its all lies.

Of course one of MJ’s family wouldn’t just stick up for their uncle?

Don’t get me wrong I love his music as much as the next person but if ‘roger from down the street had boys sleeping over at his house for weeks on end. In his bed, with him’ we’d all be fine about that would we???

 

[PineappleQueen19]

Some parents will have been groomed for sure.

Others are greedy and evil and have no issue pimping their kids out for money. Happens everywhere sadly.

 

[KawaiiAF]

I used to be a big michael jackson fan especially as a kid (it waned off once he started really butchering his face)

Even today, his concert was the best I'd ever seen. he really knew how to put on a show. However as an older teenager, I remember feeling jealous that Michael spent so much time with little kids, and not someone who, like me was around 16 or 17 years old. I remember thinking then, something is wrong but I don't know what it is.

When the stories first acme out about Michael and kids, I refused to believe it, because I thought they were money grubbing. I remember watching Martyn Bashir's interview and feeling as if he treated Michael appallingly.

I watched Leaving Neverland on catchup as I was in two minds about watching it. however, I'm glad I did. I've since began to read news articles and the maids interview on youtube and that led me to re-watching the Martin Bashir documentary.

I hadn't seen it for a long time, and now I am really intuitive. I was so shocked to be watching the same show and this time I could see and tell when Michael was lying, and he was lying A LOT about EVERYTHING! Honestly, now I understand, great music, great dancer, he knew evils we will never understand as a child, but I believe without a doubt he did abuse young boys.

My heart goes out to those young boys, it really does. i was such a big fan of his that if he had come on to me at that age I'd prob have fallen for it too. Honestly, I hate thinking i thought him the best person when in fact he seems to have been a wolf in sheeps clothing. Horrific for all concerned. And no he cannot blame his upbringing, even if he was abused himself, he should surely know enough to not be that way!

Now Im believeing also those stories that I read ages ago that Jackson had enough of the nosy parents interfering and suing so he adopted 3 children of his own, that he had two genetically chosen to both be boys, and did away with the mothers right after the births.

I believe he very likely abused his own sons, and that's the reason he had them, and the reason he made sure they were not bio related as that made it ok in his twisted mind, like the way he 'married' other boys. Honestly, it sickens me. He was not a nice man. Just, awful.

If that is the case, they know they can never speak out about it or the final nail will be in the coffin and it will be their fault! Now I get why Paris has tried to suicide before hitting 16 years old even and is acting out in so many ways inc hundreds of tattoos. It's just the worst.

I'm also really mad at all the enablers!!! Bloody woman who had those kids for him, yes money talks but that was not right. he literally snatched those babies the moment they were born and their mother was okay with that! I also believe he lied a lot about that too, he looked so shifty saying she agreed he could snatch Paris before she even had been cleaned up!

According to his maid there were sooo many boys he abused, they are all out there keeping silent as they don't want the hassle. Jeesh.

This is interesting too:

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...-Marie-Presley-using-acquire-Elvis-music.html

 

[Miss Havisham]

I don’t see any physical similarities between Michael Jackson and any of his children.
Children don’t always look like their parents - but in the case of his children, the differences are quite extreme. The whole family set up is not usual anyway - they are not children born of a usual relationship, or appear to be adopted in what is the usual sense.

The set up with Debbie Rowe is not something that I can compare to, of what I know of in real life, so feels very alien to me anyway.

 

[Prince fan 1999]

I just watched Michael Jackson: The Trial on Channel 4. I always adored his music but thought he was a bit weird and ultimately believed everything I read about his abuse of children. Now I’m not so sure having watched this. Knowing now how much Martin Bashir manipulated the whole Diana situation, did he do the same with his reporting on MJ?

No. Jackson still had little boys in his bed. You cant manipulate that

 

[shellie]

I think k the same. Until it literally comes out video proof etc I think he was a weird weird man and I have two sons I wouldn't leave alone with him (wtf were these parents thinking) but I don't think he did anything but he shouldn't have had kids in his house bed etc and then he wouldn't have been accused
Didn't someone say he never really grew up because of the abuse from his dad? Kind of makes sense if he still thought he was young like the kids and nothing was wrong because kids have sleepovers it was very weird he is a weird man but I adore his music

The Peter Pan theory has been used for years to defend him with fans saying there was no way he could be capable of harming anyone because he was sexless but those who knew him said that wasn't true. One assistant talked about having to get porn mags for him several times, his fetish being larger women and when they raided Neverland, they took several porn books that included lesbian sex as well as books where men women and children were either semi or fully nude. He was also filmed on more than one occasion saying sexist stuff about women's bodies.

Now, admittedly nothing here is salacious apart from the pictures of the naked kids. The rest however is typical of what a red-blooded man his age would be into. Add that to the fact that friends say the women he picked for his videos were women he was sexually attracted to, nearly every dance routine of his had at least one sexual move in it like holding his crotch, him talking about women flashing him at concerts and liking it...it proves 100% that the whole sexless theory so many believe just wasn't true.

 

[avb00]

I would so love to know what the deal is with those kids. It seems very unlikely that they are genetically his.

He was quite happy for them to not have a mum which is just so selfish and sad.

And prince's angelic blonde hair when he was little was suss.

Prince absolutely adores his father. You can tell it in every interview so clearly he doesn’t believe the allegations at all. Clearly very comfortable on camera. Seems a lovely man though.

Hard to know what Biggie thinks. He’s insanely private and not in the media bar the odd photo here and there. He went to the Berlin premiere and looked very uncomfortable with the publicity. I thought it was strange he flew across the world for that one and didn’t attend the LA one since he lives in LA surely it’d be easier.

I seen Biggie in Ireland a few months back on a tram. He’s a very tall lad and he smiled back. Very shy and reserved.

 

[Miss Havisham]

Yes there were,and lots of other brothers,sisters and his cousins,all at the same time but you believe what the tabloids post. After all,they're gospel aren't they

I don’t know how many children were there on each occasion - and neither do you. Likely on some occasions one child, on others more.

No, I don’t believe all of what the tabloids post and don’t believe that they are the gospel. I don’t believe much of what Michael Jackson said either. He was very manipulative and held a lot of power.
I don’t find any of it amusing, so don’t really get the laughing emojis.

 

[shellie]

I’ve only just found this thread so apologies if it’s been mentioned, but his ex body guard describes his bedroom as the average day house. It had two floors and the children slept on a different floor to him, he also states the parents were also there. Do I find MJ incredibly odd? Absolutely. But I’m not convinced he abused all these children. Even Aaron Carter came out against his own mother saying nothing happened and she was trying to make out it did for money. No one will ever know the real truth but I think he was just an oddball. Of course he shouldn’t have been having sleepovers with children but I do think it was just that, a sleepover.

He himself admitted in the Bashir interview and others that he slept in the same bed as the kids...not in other beds, not in other floors but the same bed.

 

[Upintheair83]

Yeah as a parent of two boys what the fuck are the parents doing letting their kids stay with him?

It's absolutely ridiculous! If it was Joe blogging down the street you would run a mile. I can't believe they allowed it

 

[shellie]

The fans are on a hiding to nothing trying to quote Mark Ronson as a defence because he himself said Jackson slept in Sean Lennon's bed and Mark slept on the floor.

Jackson was far less likely to predate the rich/famous kids he hung around with because they or their parents had a lot more money and power than the like of Wade Robson or the Chandlers.

Most if not all the kids he picked came from poor & needy families and he wheedled his way in by grooming the parents as well by giving them gifts, holidays, money, and other stuff overwhelming them to make them think he was kind and not think anything of him taking the kids away without them being there. Then when they got too old, they and the parents were dumped, and he moved onto others.

I said in an earlier comment he secretly filmed the boys when they slept over and there are videos out there somewhere. I think even if they were released and it showed him doing what he was accused of, there would be some so obsessed with him they would still it wasn't true even seeing it with their own eyes.

 

[KINGAA]

My issue with the Leaving Neverland documentary was how some facts were so inaccurate with dates, location and times. Even the director some things were made that way to make a better story.

They’d already had their case thrown out of court when they tried to sue the MJ productions and venture for 1.5 billion in 2013 and 2015. This happened after Wade got upset that Cirque du Soleil wouldn’t hire him to choreograph the MJ Cirque du Soleil show and tried to write a book about MJ but no one wanted it.

The judge said, he’d sworn under oath twice and you can’t sue a corporation for molestation. Which you now can as of 2020 due to law changes so they’ll try again but MJ was broke so they will only be taking money from his kids I guess.

I’ve read the court documents, the FBI watched him for years and years and found nothing. No eveidence, MJ never paid anyone it was Sony and Insurance to shut people up. It wouldn’t be hard for Wade to create a similar story all these years later to make some money as he was broke.