Michael Jackson

[Dexy]

Oh look they’ve run out of money again… Here’s docu number 2 - fans are harassing us but let’s go sue the estate ( again - what’s this third or fourth time ?? ) and we’ll do ANOTHER documentary talking about our abuse. Who does this?! Ffs how can people not see it’s all a money grab?! No one relives their “ abuse “ and “ trauma “ over and over again. Unless it didn’t fucking happen. I’m sorry, I speak as someone who has been sexually assaulted twice on two separate occasions. I can’t even discuss what was done to me. I use distance language and I certainly wouldn’t want any money from either of them!
Sick fucks the lot of them.

 

[Upintheair83]

Iv said on here before, there wasn't a bigger MJ fan than me- I even named my son after him. When I was little I never believed the allegations, however since I became a mum and iv got older I have changed my view on some things. I now look at his need and desire to hang around with so many kids as really concerning and unhealthy. But then I do stop and think about his own upbringing. He was born in Gary Indiana, and the house he shared with all his brothers and sisters only had 2 bedrooms. They shared beds and so his memories of his 'normal' childhood would have held this core memory, hence his insistence on sharing a bed being 'normal' I feel sorry for Michael as a little boy because he was a little boy that should have been protected, like most children stars. But instead he was beaten by his dad, forced to be the perfect performer, dragged around sketchy clubs and then sold to the highest bidders. He didnt have peers around him to have a benchmark for social development, he was around older men in the music business. Men with money and power, who promised him 'i can make you the biggest star' ...He was a little black boy in a country and time that was still dealing with racism quite heavily. Iv always believed that he most probably was sexually abused as a child- and I think as he entered his later teenage years his hormones and trauma of that caused him to be withdrawn and developed his 'weirdness' that we see in later life. He obviously never dealt with the trauma and because he became so powerful and wealthy he did what he wanted and there was no one there for him to answer to. And because of his success from an early age I really don't think we can compare him to a normal person. He was the most famous man on earth, reclusive and surrounded by sycophants. Can you imagine how this develops your personality? He would have been a raging narcissist for a start. And I think that unfortunately, all of these issues and his arrested development were displayed in his weirdness.i also think his skin disorder and his plastic surgery made his outer appearance seem just as bizzare as his personality which didn't help the public to understand him. We couldn't understand him because he was so far removed from our own lives.
But my heart breaks for that little boy that he once was. If we can have sympathy for his alleged victims, surely we must extend our sympathy to him as a little boy. They were all victims.
Do I think he was a PDF? I think he always displayed red flags, you would be silly to think he didn't. There's no way I'd have allowed my son around him. Did he act on his PDF feelings? Again, who knows. I wasnt there. I don't find many of his accusers credible- there are too many holes jn their testimony and they always seem to go after the money. If someone came out who didn't have anything to gain financially then I would find that more concerning. I never liked his protestations that he 'never hurt a child' I'd have much preferred him to say 'I never sexually abused a child' and I always felt it quite telling that he was so emphatic with that statement 'I would kill myself before I hurt a child' because I believe he was being truthful here, he wouldn't ever physically hurt a child. It's almost like an admission of guilt in his denial. Because he doesn't actually address the sexual allegations does he? I'd love to see a statement analysis on his denials.
I think he made terrible decisions and had no emotional intelligence, he just acted like a grown toddler who demanded everything his own way. He didn't like to be told no.
If he was a PDF I dont think he ever believed he was one, I think he was in denial of a lot of things in his life. I find it sad that the most famous black man in the world, who paved the way for so many black artists ended up drug addicted and died as a result of it. Its the same story all over the world now....look at skid row...thousands upon thousands of men and women, who had abuse in childhood, who live and die for their next fix....Michael was just the same. Joe Jackson wanted so much more for his son, but look where he ended up.

 

[shellie]

I think k the same. Until it literally comes out video proof etc I think he was a weird weird man and I have two sons I wouldn't leave alone with him (wtf were these parents thinking) but I don't think he did anything but he shouldn't have had kids in his house bed etc and then he wouldn't have been accused
Didn't someone say he never really grew up because of the abuse from his dad? Kind of makes sense if he still thought he was young like the kids and nothing was wrong because kids have sleepovers it was very weird he is a weird man but I adore his music

The Peter Pan theory has been used for years to defend him with fans saying there was no way he could be capable of harming anyone because he was sexless but those who knew him said that wasn't true. One assistant talked about having to get porn mags for him several times, his fetish being larger women and when they raided Neverland, they took several porn books that included lesbian sex as well as books where men women and children were either semi or fully nude. He was also filmed on more than one occasion saying sexist stuff about women's bodies.

Now, admittedly nothing here is salacious apart from the pictures of the naked kids. The rest however is typical of what a red-blooded man his age would be into. Add that to the fact that friends say the women he picked for his videos were women he was sexually attracted to, nearly every dance routine of his had at least one sexual move in it like holding his crotch, him talking about women flashing him at concerts and liking it...it proves 100% that the whole sexless theory so many believe just wasn't true.

 

[Miss Havisham]

Yes there were,and lots of other brothers,sisters and his cousins,all at the same time but you believe what the tabloids post. After all,they're gospel aren't they

I don’t know how many children were there on each occasion - and neither do you. Likely on some occasions one child, on others more.

No, I don’t believe all of what the tabloids post and don’t believe that they are the gospel. I don’t believe much of what Michael Jackson said either. He was very manipulative and held a lot of power.
I don’t find any of it amusing, so don’t really get the laughing emojis.

 

[shellie]

I’ve only just found this thread so apologies if it’s been mentioned, but his ex body guard describes his bedroom as the average day house. It had two floors and the children slept on a different floor to him, he also states the parents were also there. Do I find MJ incredibly odd? Absolutely. But I’m not convinced he abused all these children. Even Aaron Carter came out against his own mother saying nothing happened and she was trying to make out it did for money. No one will ever know the real truth but I think he was just an oddball. Of course he shouldn’t have been having sleepovers with children but I do think it was just that, a sleepover.

He himself admitted in the Bashir interview and others that he slept in the same bed as the kids...not in other beds, not in other floors but the same bed.

 

[2xblended]

And why would it be Jackson in particular getting picked on - why would he unfairly be targeted when many people as famous - let’s say Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, that sort of level to name two he worked with - rarely have anyone accuse them of anything?

I think a part of that is just how 'alien' Jackson was, and how easy it was to pin any sort of outlandish claim on him due to his eccentric ways.
Not to mention, Neverland Ranch being an open house to anyone who waned to go there meant it was easier to claim it was the setting/location of abuse...other celebs weren't as willing to let fans into their homes.
And before people say that open house policy incriminates him, I want to point out that the ranch was open to adults and children, and just about anyone who wanted to enter was granted permission to visit and stay. This has been documented over the years- he just wanted people to have a bit of the escapism that he himself needed so badly.
I have no idea if he's innocent or guilty, I cried with the Leaving Neverland documentary and believed them. But once I started digging deeper, there were a lot of details from the accusers that did not prove true in the end. Seeing that alternative documentary posted above- it showed facts without the emotional manipulation, and it confirmed a lot of what I'd read... It makes all those claims seem like a witch hunt and money grab, unfortunately.

 

[shellie]

The fans are on a hiding to nothing trying to quote Mark Ronson as a defence because he himself said Jackson slept in Sean Lennon's bed and Mark slept on the floor.

Jackson was far less likely to predate the rich/famous kids he hung around with because they or their parents had a lot more money and power than the like of Wade Robson or the Chandlers.

Most if not all the kids he picked came from poor & needy families and he wheedled his way in by grooming the parents as well by giving them gifts, holidays, money, and other stuff overwhelming them to make them think he was kind and not think anything of him taking the kids away without them being there. Then when they got too old, they and the parents were dumped, and he moved onto others.

I said in an earlier comment he secretly filmed the boys when they slept over and there are videos out there somewhere. I think even if they were released and it showed him doing what he was accused of, there would be some so obsessed with him they would still it wasn't true even seeing it with their own eyes.

 

[Venuslurker]

I saw that, found it intresting. The only bit that I wish he hadn't said was that he believes Bill Cosbys innocent and he defended him as well.

Oh lol well that tells you everything

 

[Abominatrix]

I think we should separate private and professional you can hate the arse of someone but still admire their music
There's loads of artists who are tainted but have brilliant music

What I wish would come of stuff like this is people would stop worshipping celebrities. Love their output, their talent, but understand that these are strangers with their own closets full of skeletons.

I know that will never happen, but it's the only solution that really makes sense. I adorded Jackson as a child, being raised on Jackson 5 and his own music, I remember excitedly waiting for the big premieres of his videos Black or White and Remember the Time. Absolutely loved Moonwalker, minus the story parts because that's shit odd as hell. But he turns into a damn car and flies away! Loved it.

He got weirder as we got older, and the accusations came out and boy do I believe every bit. Neverland was a nightmare place and grown men are very often sick fucks. Still love his music, would be happy to never see his face again.

 

[Ivegone]

I just want to say is anyone surprised so many parents demanded money when they were the kind of parents who let their kids sleep in Jackson's bed tbw??

Absolutely shitty parenting. 90s parenting was awful that's why we all have anxiety etc but they basically handed their kids to him

 

[Upintheair83]

I've said it earlier in the thread but a few of the jurors were asked and they said the same thing...there wasn't enough to prove to them he was 100% guilty but they didn't think he was innocent either. Then there was also the fact that at least one juror should never have been there to begin with as she lied and claimed not to be a fan/could be partial, then years later in a show about celeb cases and jurors being asked with what they now know, would they still say the same thing, admitted she was always gonna find him not guilty.

A great comment ...This is why I agree with Pat Brown's belief that jurors shouldn't just be picked at random, that their should be roles made especially for being a juror. With training, so people know how to analyse things in an objective way. Something a lot of people seem to lack nowadays.

 

[Tuesdaysdoll14]

My aunt and two other women were abused by my uncle as girls. He was a powerful man, millionaire, well respected, well-loved. All three of them weren’t aware of each other but they didn’t speak up until he died, because the genuine fear of his power and connections and what he could do to them wasn’t worth it. This is a normal Joe Bloggs.

 

[annanuttall]

This doesn't surprise me as it screams The Jackson Estate all over it - desperate for money and that tiny bit of fame.

 

[shellie]

I whole heartedly believe he was guilty. The cognitive dissonance from fans astounds me and I constantly feel like banging my head against a wall in comment sections that defend poor little never had a childhood himself Michael

If, and this is massive fucking if I dont for a second believe, he was innocent hes STILL guilty of creating confusing barriers and boundaries for children. Even if he didnt commit sexual abuse, those children would have a warped view of what is acceptable in regards to sharing space with a grown adult you arent related to. Making them susceptible to (further) abuse from others.

I think he was a massive pos though and believe if he was alive today I actually think he'd have less defenders.

He didn't have a childhood....that is something I don't get as an excuse because there are millions who went through the same or worse who didn't grow up to do what he did. It's as bad as the 'he was still a child/asexual' excuses when there is tons of evidence he was far from it. There are videos of him lusting after women and people talking about buying him porn etc which proves it was bullshit. Of course they then use that as an other excuse to proof his innocense like there havent't been countless instances of straight men married for years with kids being caught with CSAM containing just boys.


BIB - it's the saint effect that happens to everyone when they die. Diana is the perfect example. When she was alive she could be a right nasty cow. Even friends said she could be really vindictive yet the minute she died, people forgot she had flaws and could be nippy and decided she was a saint who was too good for us idiots. There are people out there who think the likes of Bundy, Dahmer and other serial killers were poor guys who just weren't treated right....it's mad but it happens.

 

[Piff paff puff]

Paris prince and bigi have stated they are biological children of Michael, whether that’s true or not the children believe they are either way and it should be left as that. Blood or not Michael is their father

Well I'm glad they think that and that they're happy. If they want to recognise him as their dad in whichever way they like they have every right. Just as we have the right to comment on a forum what we think about it all. He was maybe a great dad, the best dad anyone had ever had and that's all that matters to them. However I don't think he was, as you wouldn't dangle a baby from a high window if you were and even less so if that was your biological child, it would go against your maternal/paternal instincts. As for the biological point yes ofc you can be a parent without being related to your children.

 

[MarshMallowMonster]

Plenty of people have shitty childhoods with horrible abuse.

That’s no excuse to welcome and encourage little kids into your bed. Mostly male kids.

MJ had a type for his muses, he didn’t abuse all of them, just the ones he thought he would be able to.

Not all paedophiles will abuse all kids they have access to, there are carefully selected victims.

MJ’s abuse of kids was so normal he felt able to say multiple times how natural it is to share his bed with kids, under guise of Slumber Party.

Parents who were stupid or vulnerable enough to be paid off welcomed invitations from MJ for their sons to share his bed. Grooming takes many forms.

A CSA or SA victim always has a time when they feel strong enough to tell. There could be a trigger such as parenthood, other victims speaking out, a trauma.

The MJ force is big, and they have money to keep any negativity suppressed. The fan cult who will threaten and terrorize, are reasons not to speak out.

For sure there are other victims out there. MJ found young boys attractive. His marriage to LM was a sham. And he never had sex with Debbie Rowe.

Ugh.

 

[Dexy]

This thread always alarms me, the clarity vs the denial, blows my mind.

Just imagine he is a bloke called Barry who lives on your street. Are you letting your kids go sleep overs with this....

View attachment 3989434

I will answer this honestly.
Apologises now if it gets long.
The whole if he was Barry down the street is a void argument. He wasn’t just someone off the street. He was the most well known person in the world and still is.
Would I leave my children with Michael Jackson? Truthfully NO.
I do not leave my children with anyone.
As someone who has been SA on two separate occasions and it messed me up for years I am a very over protective mother. I trust no one.
Having said this did I go to the men who SA me and ask for a payout as compensation.
Also NO!
Do I believe this is extortion and not true claims? YES.
How much research have you done because I have done a lot. I could not continue to listen to this man’s music if I thought there was a possibility these accusations were true. I’ve studied the case thoroughly. I’ve seen the patterns with the media. The discrepancies with dates. The victims conveniently waiting until the stature of limitations is up. Why will 40 million help ease their trauma? I watched LN and I couldn’t believe how at ease they talked about it all. They seemed fake. I hate injustice. It’s all of it together that forms a bigger picture. I believe he had age regression and trauma from his childhood. He doesn’t fit the profile of a pedalo according to many experts. I do think he acted inappropriately. He should never have put himself in that situation. As you say no average Joe would do this. But again he wasn’t average. There was nothing ordinary about his upbringing and nothing ordinary about his life as an adult. Maybe his behaviour was odd for that reason.
I don’t know, I don’t claim to have all the answers but what I can say is I believe in his innocence because of many, many reasons.
I’m not just here like “ oh Billie Jean is a good bop, can’t possibly stop liking him, I’ll just let it slide he’s a pedalo. “

 

[2xblended]

I can understand both sides of this, but for those just condemning Jackson based on the Leaving Neverland documentary- would you please watch the Square One documentary posted? It makes for a fairer picture overall. It's filled with facts whilst the former is purposefully leading people by emotions in the absence of hard facts. Both of them together provide a clearer picture.

The other thing to note (which I think others have mentioned before me) is that MJ was investigated 20 times (or some such insane number) by the FBI but they found absolutely nothing incriminating against him and said so repeatedly.
It's not like Weinstein where the local police and press were on his payroll and covered up for him (I think I read that tidbit in 'Catch and Kill'). This wasn't a coverup by a local police station (because none of the accusers or their families ever informed the police or filed a criminal case against Jackson). This was various departments in the FBI each coming up empty when they raided MJ and his family's homes repeatedly.

Guilty or innocent, nobody will know for sure, and I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was swayed by the documentary and then found the facts to mostly be proven false. I appreciate a counter documentary that aims to present a more factually researched picture of what occurred (and since this is a "documentary" and not fiction, I am shocked that Leaving Neverland didn't get fact checked).

 

[KawaiiAF]

I used to be a big michael jackson fan especially as a kid (it waned off once he started really butchering his face)

Even today, his concert was the best I'd ever seen. he really knew how to put on a show. However as an older teenager, I remember feeling jealous that Michael spent so much time with little kids, and not someone who, like me was around 16 or 17 years old. I remember thinking then, something is wrong but I don't know what it is.

When the stories first acme out about Michael and kids, I refused to believe it, because I thought they were money grubbing. I remember watching Martyn Bashir's interview and feeling as if he treated Michael appallingly.

I watched Leaving Neverland on catchup as I was in two minds about watching it. however, I'm glad I did. I've since began to read news articles and the maids interview on youtube and that led me to re-watching the Martin Bashir documentary.

I hadn't seen it for a long time, and now I am really intuitive. I was so shocked to be watching the same show and this time I could see and tell when Michael was lying, and he was lying A LOT about EVERYTHING! Honestly, now I understand, great music, great dancer, he knew evils we will never understand as a child, but I believe without a doubt he did abuse young boys.

My heart goes out to those young boys, it really does. i was such a big fan of his that if he had come on to me at that age I'd prob have fallen for it too. Honestly, I hate thinking i thought him the best person when in fact he seems to have been a wolf in sheeps clothing. Horrific for all concerned. And no he cannot blame his upbringing, even if he was abused himself, he should surely know enough to not be that way!

Now Im believeing also those stories that I read ages ago that Jackson had enough of the nosy parents interfering and suing so he adopted 3 children of his own, that he had two genetically chosen to both be boys, and did away with the mothers right after the births.

I believe he very likely abused his own sons, and that's the reason he had them, and the reason he made sure they were not bio related as that made it ok in his twisted mind, like the way he 'married' other boys. Honestly, it sickens me. He was not a nice man. Just, awful.

If that is the case, they know they can never speak out about it or the final nail will be in the coffin and it will be their fault! Now I get why Paris has tried to suicide before hitting 16 years old even and is acting out in so many ways inc hundreds of tattoos. It's just the worst.

I'm also really mad at all the enablers!!! Bloody woman who had those kids for him, yes money talks but that was not right. he literally snatched those babies the moment they were born and their mother was okay with that! I also believe he lied a lot about that too, he looked so shifty saying she agreed he could snatch Paris before she even had been cleaned up!

According to his maid there were sooo many boys he abused, they are all out there keeping silent as they don't want the hassle. Jeesh.

This is interesting too:

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...-Marie-Presley-using-acquire-Elvis-music.html

 

[Midsummer Son]

It’s well-known that MJ was obsessed with Elvis, who was the first global star and the MJ of his day. I think his marriage to Lisa Marie was an attempt to have a part of Elvis for himself so to speak, almost like collecting a living part of him. And he probably relished the status/idea of the King of Pop being married to the daughter of the King of Rock n Roll.

Regarding the jury clearing MJ, I don’t think anyone reasonable would consider that an unbiased trial. The jurors were clearly starstruck with MJ and he was also still incredibly famous and beloved. Let’s be real, a fat Dave from down the road accused of the same crimes would have been convicted without a doubt.