Michael Jackson

[Prettylittleliar29]

I’m very torn by the whole thing....Wade robson is a known liar! He burnt a lot of bridges with people MJ introduced him too he only came out with all these allegations after he was dropped as choreographer on the this is it tour..up until that point he sang MJs praises...but fishy if you ask me.

 

[Web30]

Ok I’ve not watched this yet but my opinion right now.

These two guys I wouldn’t trust and the documentary seems to be based around them more than anything? Stories and accusations that were told/made were made with no way to prove if they were true, as there was only 2 people involved every time. The 2 guys were in contact behind the scenes before the documentary came out am I right?
And this seems off. It also looks like the director had in his mind what way he wanted this to go, so his narrative was always going to be that the abuse happened. Regardless of facts.

Apparently none of the Jackson family were given the chance to speak out or be involved in the documentary? I don’t think they could make much of a difference but I do think they should have had the chance to speak.
I’m on the fence on this one because of the people involved and how sketchy they seem.
Like @Web30 has said, if you can’t trust the source it’s hard to believe the facts.
Interested to see if my opinion changes after watching it.

Iv now seen the second part and it hasnt changed what i thought. I enjoyed it when wade said "i was abused till i was 14" about 10 mins after he claims MJ tried to have sex with him at 16. Lie right thier!

 

[Libertine1975]

I get conflicted about the historic sexual abuse cases.

I think we all knew there was something about Jimmy Savile which was sinister.

The artist formerly known as Prince Andrew I'm not saying he didn't know or do anything but I also don't believe that people should be considered guilty by association.

Michael Jackson I find difficult. I verge more towards innocence. I think he had a shit childhood, he was beaten and was working from the age of 5. He was more in the spotlight than a lot of other "child stars" who have had issues. I think he came across as sincere and honest when he speaks about the allegations. Other people around him didn't see that side to him including Culkin and Feldman (who has spoken for years about abuse in Hollywood).

So my heart wants to believe that he is innocent and he built Neverland and wanted to be around children to experience a childhood he never had.

Ultimately he was made to settle the 1993 case and was aquitted in 2005. I think there are problems with the accounts of his accusers and the settlement of the case in 1993 probably has made it easier to convince people of his guilt.

Having seen a lot on social media the past couple of weeks after the movie the press were absolute scum to him. Meghan Markle talks about being trolled but the 1990s press were just vile and I'm not sure that Michael and his team really knew how to deal with it. He never denied having children stay at Neverland even in his bedroom, you wouldn't get a celebrity saying anything remotely close to that now. Was this being him playing the press or being naive?

I want to believe people who claim abuse but I also find that difficult at times because it is so hard to prove or disprove either way. Are the people coming out now just wanting a payday as the estate has become so valuable? It seems like they have had financial issues and during his life Michael was used as a but of a cash cow.

The whole situation is just sad. Either the most talented artist we have had abused his position or his kindness and being somewhat naive has allowed bad actors to tarnish his reputation for both his fans and, perhaps more importantly, his children.

 

[Prince fan 1999]

It only goes up to Bad era as far as im aware anyway.
Going to see it at the weekend and really hope its not a let down but heard good things from fans.

Just out from seeing it. I loved it. Jafar is amazing. Some funny parts too.

 

[Piff paff puff]

even his brothers said had a very healthy appetite, sexually

To me he seemed like the most asexual man on the planet. I know he had supposed relationships but nothing of any substance. They looked like publicity stunts for both parties. The marriage to Lisa Marie was weird. His obsession with looking like Liz Taylor and Liza minelli was in line with feeling more feminine than masculine. I think if anything he was a gay man in the closet. Am I right in that no girl children were invited into his bed? Not a question just to you but a general question.

 

[Web30]

Also wades mum was crazy, she left half her family to move to LA thinking she could make wade a star.. She was upset when michael seemed to have dropped them and hadnt payed for thier appartment ?

 

[Miss Havisham]

the minute they got up dancing should have all been thrown out the case being rescheduled to get new jurys

Well, that does make the whole case sound like a farce.

I do imagine, that when it comes to the rich famous and influential being tried - there will be folk on juries who are more discreet, with nobody ever knowing or be able to prove that they could be influenced by them.

 

[annanuttall]

The Independent (article): I knew Michael Jackson – the truth about his life won’t be uncovered https://archive.ph/L9rPN

 

[Upintheair83]

I didn't believe a word of leaving neverland or the accusers in it. Do I think MJ was a child predator? I think it's more than likely. But I never thought Gavin Arvizo or the accusers in LN were credible at all. I think they were all chancers with agendas of their own. I also believe MJ was molested as a child- I think the signs are all pointing that he was. And I think the cycle went on unfortunately.

 

[Prince fan 1999]

Very good point.

People will still insist that he was guilty based on what they’ve read and seen in the media. Never mind what happened in a court of law that found him innocent.

Agreed. It's getting worse as the years go on, especially with AI now. The press are already running a photo of him with a boy. The boy has been photoshopped in a photo of Michael with an arm outstretched, showing his vitiligo in the original photo There was no boy. It's relentless now. I'm glad people are seeing how they are manipulating they are now.

 

[ToxicPony]

I don't think the Peter Pan theory holds any weight either when MJ clearly at least understood adult matters and sexuality and used them in his music and videos. Besides, if he was mentally a child then his fans were supporting the exploitation of him. Can't have it both ways - if he was so mentally impaired then why was he touring, doing business etc.

It's more likely that he had trauma from being groomed and SAd himself as a child in the industry and perpetuated the cycle as is often the case.

That all said, I still don't know how I feel specifically about Wade Robson. His story doesn't ring true to me.

 

[Piff paff puff]

Bigi is his double. They are his kids no matter what.. would you tell someone who can’t have children and adopted that they are not their kids.

I'd you are asking me whether I would tell an adopted person they are adopted if I knew and they didn't and they wanted to know, that would depend on the situation. Nothing will convince me they are MJs bio children but ofc I don't know as I don't know them and I don't know what they know about it all.

 

[Upintheair83]

My issue is that when you start pulling at the threads of ‘things may have been forgotten/confused’ of Leaving Neverland more starts to unravel.

For example, the case of the neverland train station mentioned above. James swore under oath he was abused up until 1992 and after that we was ‘dropped and then replaced by a younger boy once he’d hit puberty’ and that was apparently Michael’s pattern. He says in LN he was abused ‘hundreds’ of times, specifically in the Neverland train station. But the station was not built until 1994, this is a proven fact that can be verified through planning permission documents and video footage from helicopters etc.

Dan reed the director of LN said when asked about this discrepancy on a talk show that ‘the place of abuse is not being disputed but the dates of the abuse are’. However, if we then shift to this timeline where he was abused in the station in 1994 onwards, that means the abuse not only happened 2 years later than previously said in his sworn declaration (so he’s perjured himself) but also James would now be aged 16/17 not a young pre-pubescent when the abuse allegedly happened.

This invalidates their narrative of ‘Michal abused them until they hit puberty and then replaced them with a younger boy’. There are also photos of James with Michael from the set of the teaser for the History album in 1995/96, where James in holding a pink umbrella over Michael. This is years after the alleged abuse yet he is still hanging around with Michael which again questions the narrative getting ’dropped’ after he hit puberty. He’s actually taller than Michael in the photo so definitely is post puberty and in 1995 he would be 17/18 years old.

Wades story likewise has similar issues. In his sworn deposition in 2016 (so after he went public with his accusations) both he and his mom claim on their first trip to neverland the family left the ranch for a couple of days to visit the Grand Canyon before going back to neverland for a few more days then going back to Australia. But in LN, he claims his whole family went to the Canyon without him and left him at neverland on his own and it was then he was first abused. So why has the story changed?

Also, the fact LN doesn’t mention Wade dated Michaels niece for years (during the years of his alleged abuse too) is crazy. The reason it wasn’t mentioned is clearly because it ruins the story of ‘Michael kept them away from girls’ but in reality he was dating the daughter of Jackie Jackson for years.

Wade has always been a grifter and always used his connection to MJ for financial gains. I really don't trust anything Wade Robson says.

 

[Web30]

I can only see the marriage as an absolute sham. Married in May 94, Presley filed for divorce in January 96.
I have scented diffusers that lasted longer.

There is nothing to suggest that the marriage was authentic in any way, but then it looked very orchestrated - following allegations against him.

She had said positive things in interviews years later but it definitely seemed like a Pr stunt given the timing.

 

[Rockin' Robin]

these two accusers have literally millions of dollars to gain by saying this now.

they may well not have been paid for the documentary but they are suing MJs estate for millions in the civil courts

I personally found the documentary really believable at first but the more I’ve read about the accusers the more their credibility is brought into question and I’ve realised how biased that tv programme actually is. I think MJ is a total weirdo but even a dead weirdo deserves a fair hearing and he’s not been given that.

Both of the accusers have money troubles and one of the accusers (James Saffechuck) happened to remember he was abused by MJ just a few days after his family business was sued for millions. He also says he was abused daily in a building which categorically has been shown not to have existed until years after the abuse ended.

the judge in the civil case has reprimanded one of the accusers for lying about certain technical matters (existence of the estate) and also fabricating evidence. If some of what they are saying is clearly lies in just not sure it’s fair to say we must believe them unquestionably about the alleged abuse

one final thing. I know all too well from personal experience that abuse victims can be in all sorts of denial and shame about their abuse for many years. But Wade Robson stood in the dock of the criminal court in 2005 *AS AN ADULT* and denied he had ever been abused by MJ. He was asked if MJ had ever touched him inappropriately and all sorts of specific questions. Wade said no. But now (2020), Wade claims that in 2005 (when he was already an adult) he didn’t know what abuse was (he has to say this because of statute of limitations and because he wants max financial
Compensation ). I feel like there’s some really obvious questions here that aren’t being asked. The whole thing with Saville is that it was always covered up when Saville was alive and victims were not given a chance to come forward. Many were silenced when they tried to talk. With MJ these questions were asking in a courtroom when MJ was alive. Total opposite . MJ stuff makes no sense.

I think MJ might well be innocent here


im sort of in the same camp as you in that I used to love MJs music but was never a fan

I completely believed the documentary at first

after a couple of weeks of feeling disgusted by it all, I decided to do some research. At the very least what I would say is that “documentary” is ridiculously biased and I’m actually angry as a viewer that I was misled like that. It made it seem as if both accusers would have no reason to lie but actually both Have denied abuse while lives but claimed abuse when facing financial difficulty (that doesn’t mean they’re lying but it should have been mentioned). Also these accusers conduct in the civil court case has actually been a disgrace. They’ve been reprimanded by judge for lying about various issues (not the abuse, other matters) and for Deliberately concealing evidence.Whole thing is actually shocking and has made me really distrust TV programmes and journalists as they just go with a story and run with it and don’t give their audience all the information. If you’re interested in reading more about this it’s actually fascinating but remember not to rely on tabloid sources and instead rely on court documents and transcripts

Michael Jackson was wealthy enough to have a public relations team to protect his reputation. One of the biggest PR stunts was when Jackson married Lisa Marie Presley. This happened around about the time of the Jordy Chandler court case.
Is it not possible that Jackson was also wealthy enough to hire people to lean on witnesses, so they would be too afraid to speak the truth during a court case. I know it sounds far fetched, but these things happen.

 

[Prince fan 1999]

Safechuck wanted his wedding at Neverland. Weird to want to get married at a place you were allegedly abused at isn't it?

 

[KINGAA]

I absolutely believe that Michael Jackson was a victim of abuse as a child and I feel huge compassion for little Michael. I also think that adult Michael was a predatory serial abuser who groomed and abused lots of kids. He can be both a victim and a perpetrator. If this was Joe Bloggs from the local pub nobody would be suggesting his bad childhood made him childlike so it was ok to sleep naked with young boys.

I think the abuse he had a lack of childhood effected his mental capacity and he saw children like him, like I think he thought like a child, completely stunted except he was a grown man and even his brothers said had a very healthy appetite, sexually - he was infatuated with children and was surrounded by yes men who helped him do this and get away with this for money. Most of his songs weren’t even written by him, he was given credits he was a money making machine for the music industry and I think there are many many people who are also to blame. Like Epstein this is way way bigger than just him. I know it is.

 

[Prince fan 1999]

Just back from seeing the film for the second time. Cinema was full

 

[Dexy]

Hang on, does she really mean cloning? As opposed to ivf or surrogacy etc. And why does she say they. Not he. Who are this nefarious cloning crowd?

I didn’t see it but pretty sure it was a joke. She has a very dry SOH and is quite sarky at times. It’s probably a dig at those who say she’s the spit of Debbie.

 

[jenny265]

Apologies, I wasn’t meaning my post to read as defending MJ or paedos and could have worded it much better. I was only questioning the Bashir interview element of his story but that doesn’t excuse his abuse of so many.