Madeleine McCann #5

[missmina]

Wasn’t the door supposedly left open so she could go to her parents if there was a repeat of the crying episode from the previous night? (Which was put down to an intruder doing a dry run?)

It was open supposedly. They were constantly changing stories and which route they were taking to get to the apartment (from what I remember the main entrance was a bit further away) but I suppose it was so when others would go to check on the kids they wouldnt get keys to everyone’s apartment buck just go in through the balcony door left open for that purpose. They were beyond lazy.
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Umm that’s not how it works. He makes a joke out of investigation. For three years they haven’t found anything allowing to prosecute him should be the main point. But yeah congrats to them that for three bleeping years they haven’t found anything which would „contradict their suspicion”. Dude should be prohibitet to give interviews honestly.

 

[SpindleWhorl]

The investigators have sent out materials to be tested

 

[shadowcat5]

See I don't know if a 3 year old would have the thought process to "leave to look for their parents". Don't get me wrong I think a 3 year old would leave an unlocked room because they physically could not necessarily to carry out a task if that makes sense but I don't think she left to find her parents. Do 3 year olds think like that? Thinking of the times my son has tried to escape our house and garden he just leaves he has no rhyme or reason it's just because he's able to.
Which is why I struggle so much with the unlocked door! If you were risk assessing it it's not the fact that someone would come in, it's more the fact that they could leave that you would think about. The reality is that someone entering would be low risk and unlikely to happen. But a toddler making a dash for it... Way more likely.

I think there is a possibility she could have gone to find them if she knew that they were at the tapas bar. They’d been there awhile by that point so if she had woken up the night before and asked where they were and they had answered saying they were at the tapas bar, it’s not out of the realms of possibility that she’d go to find them. Im pretty sure Kate says in her book (?) that maddie has remembered the route back to the apartment so if that’s true then there is a real possibility she left to go find them and got lost. Also worth remembering that she was days away from turning 4 when she disappeared

 

[Emsie]

All kids are different. Mine wouldn't go on a mission to find me. He'd stay and cry. Might get out of bed and wonder round but I don't think he would think right I'm off to the tapas bar to get that mother of mine.
They do learn routes though, mine knows the way to nursery and the shop
I just don't buy that Maddie left the apartment. I do think she was taken.

 

[SpindleWhorl]

I remember when I was about 4 or 5 on holiday and I couldn't see my parents so started walking back to the accommodation. I knocked on the door and there was no answer and another holidaymaker found me and took me back to my parents. I could easily have been found by someone who had sinister intentions x

 

[shadowcat5]

All kids are different. Mine wouldn't go on a mission to find me. He'd stay and cry. Might get out of bed and wonder round but I don't think he would think right I'm off to the tapas bar to get that mother of mine.
They do learn routes though, mine knows the way to nursery and the shop
I just don't buy that Maddie left the apartment. I do think she was taken.

I don’t think she directly thought that but I can imagine 4 year old logic of “mummy isn’t here, I’m going to see if I can find her”
Like you said though, all kids are different. I probably would have gone to look. I remember I was about 4/5 (reception class), it was the end of a school day, I thought I had heard my name be called to signal that my mum was there to pick me up. Instead of sitting there or asking the teacher, I straight up walked out of the door behind the teacher and across the yard onto the main road to find my mum. My mum was coming up the road at the time and found me. I think it does just depend on the kid

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

I don’t think she directly thought that but I can imagine 4 year old logic of “mummy isn’t here, I’m going to see if I can find her”
Like you said though, all kids are different. I probably would have gone to look. I remember I was about 4/5 (reception class), it was the end of a school day, I thought I had heard my name be called to signal that my mum was there to pick me up. Instead of sitting there or asking the teacher, I straight up walked out of the door behind the teacher and across the yard onto the main road to find my mum. My mum was coming up the road at the time and found me. I think it does just depend on the kid

Yeah that was the logic I was thinking of. Wandering out to find Mummy and Daddy, probably calling for them. Not a full reasoned “they’ll be at the tapas bar” but “they’re not here therefore they must be outside” the same way if a child at home woke from a nap and couldn’t see you in the house and the back door was open, they might wander into the garden.

I don’t think she did just because especially in a relatively unfamiliar environment I think she’d have taken the cat or something else with her.

 

[Lady_H]

Wasn’t the door supposedly left open so she could go to her parents if there was a repeat of the crying episode from the previous night? (Which was put down to an intruder doing a dry run?)

It is incredibly difficult to say what was or wasn’t locked / unlocked / open / closed / forced open / half closed at this point because the story has changed so many times and different parts of it cannot be explained without links to other evidence and then trying to separate that evidence from the media reports.

It’s the same with cuddle cat. The fact that the cadaver dog alerted to the smell of dead body on that toy seems to have got lost in the discussion of whether or not washing it made Kate a caring mother based on peoples’ subjective opinions.

Re the doors, in the original statement Gerry gave, the front door was locked and the side (patio) door was open (this is where the parents were doing their checks). This story later changed and he said that the front door was unlocked. I hadn’t heard the story that it was unlocked for her to go and find her parents - which is insane - but it’s not inconceivable that this was one of many stories put out to try to explain what had happened.

It is worth noting that the side door exit didn’t tally up with where Jane Tanner saw Tannerman (the McCanns favourite abductor sighting who later turned out to be Dr Julian Totman taking his child home from the nursery) and that Gerry changed his story after Jane’s identification of Tannerman. In other words Tannerman could only be credible as a possible abductor if he had taken Madeline from the front door of the apartment and it would have to be unlocked for that to be the case.

The door to the children’s bedroom was, according to Kate’s and Gerry’s original statement “wide open”. A few years later in an Australian documentary interview she claimed that the door was slightly open, “not as we’d originally left it”, and then it suddenly slammed shut from a whoosh of air from the (now open) window, and that “she just knew Madeleine had been taken”. This did not appear in her original statement or the statements If Gerry or any of the friends. But let’s not get into the window, that’s a whole other ball if wax!

 

[SkippyDoo]

My mother was once a passenger in a car my dad was driving, and spotted a small child, no more than three or four years old, wandering, alone, along by the side of the main road. My parents stopped and collected him, being very worried for his safety, set about finding his parents.

Long story short, he had wandered off from his home about half a mile away. When his parents were located an hour or so later they were asked “is your son missing?” “Oh no, they said, “he’s in the back garden. They owned the pub and their “garden” was the beer garden.

“Um, so this isn’t him?” *child was produced to them*

“Oh… yeah… he must have got out somehow…”

I’ve often thought what might have happened if good and decent people didn’t stop for the child — getting hit by a car seems possible but anyone with sinister intentions could have grabbed him off the street and vanished. Doubtless the parents would have sworn to the ends of the earth that he must have been abducted from the back garden where they had left him. There would be no DNA of the abductor in the garden unless they’d happened to have visited the pub…

In my opinion, Madeleine either wandered off and was taken by a total opportunist who saw her alone, or someone watched the parents leave the children behind in the room. Either way, I think their actions in leaving the kids were stupid and harmful. An accident or a medical emergency could easily have happened but probably worse happened to Madeleine. In my opinion they should have been prosecuted.

 

[Boring Monday]

Kids of 2, 3 and 4 are cunning, adventurous and extremely nippy. They will be out of a locked room and away before you have time to wonder ‘how did they manage that’. They also have no real sense of danger. I’d never say they wouldn’t do that because of x,y,z … because as someone who wrangled more pre-schoolers than is good for the nerves … yeah, they probably would.

 

[Emsie]

What's the name of the theory that means the likely scenario is probably true.
The likely scenario (imo I'm not a detective don't come for me) is that the door was unlocked to allow parents easy access to check their kids, they were not checking them as often as stated.
Then I can't decide what is likely after. Either she wondered off (given that it appears she struggled to stay in bed) or someone came in and took her. In my world both are unlikely to happen to me, but then I don't leave my kids alone so

 

[SpindleWhorl]

Occams razor

 

[Boring Monday]

What's the name of the theory that means the likely scenario is probably true.
The likely scenario (imo I'm not a detective don't come for me) is that the door was unlocked to allow parents easy access to check their kids, they were not checking them as often as stated.
Then I can't decide what is likely after. Either she wondered off (given that it appears she struggled to stay in bed) or someone came in and took her. In my world both are unlikely to happen to me, but then I don't leave my kids alone so

Occam’s razor

Occam's razor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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Yeah that was the logic I was thinking of. Wandering out to find Mummy and Daddy, probably calling for them. Not a full reasoned “they’ll be at the tapas bar” but “they’re not here therefore they must be outside” the same way if a child at home woke from a nap and couldn’t see you in the house and the back door was open, they might wander into the garden.

I don’t think she did just because especially in a relatively unfamiliar environment I think she’d have taken the cat or something else with her.

But that’s the thing, isn’t it. We have no way of understanding the thought process of a nearly 4 year old. taking what we do know, the night before one of the twins had woken up and cried, for a long period of time. Madeleine had asked Kate the next day why she hadn’t come when they were crying. It’s not pushing the boundaries to wonder if that could have happened again and she decided to take matters into her own hands and go and find them. It’s not impossible that the cat was left behind with instructions to ‘look after’ the twins while she went.

 

[The Yoko Ono of GY]

Occam’s razor

Occam's razor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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But that’s the thing, isn’t it. We have no way of understanding the thought process of a nearly 4 year old. taking what we do know, the night before one of the twins had woken up and cried, for a long period of time. Madeleine had asked Kate the next day why she hadn’t come when they were crying. It’s not pushing the boundaries to wonder if that could have happened again and she decided to take matters into her own hands and go and find them. It’s not impossible that the cat was left behind with instructions to ‘look after’ the twins while she went.

This sounds so heartbreaking, wanting to help her baby siblings and becoming a crime victim.

 

[missmina]

Occam’s razor

Occam's razor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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aking what we do know, the night before one of the twins had woken up and cried, for a long period of time. Madeleine had asked Kate the next day why she hadn’t come when they were crying.

From what I recall it was Maddie crying and calling mom. The woman who lived above them I think said she’s been crying for hours.

 

[Boring Monday]

From what I recall it was Maddie crying and calling mom. The woman who lived above them I think said she’s been crying for hours.

In her book, Kate put that Madeleine had asked ‘why didn’t you come when Sean and I cried last night’.

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

In her book, Kate put that Madeleine had asked ‘why didn’t you come when Sean and I cried last night’.

Well Ma McCann will have to life with that statement for the rest of her days won't she? Neveretheless hawking it out for this tedious book shows that in fact its likely she doesn't give a frig anyway

 

[OH.FFS]

Well Ma McCann will have to life with that statement for the rest of her days won't she? Neveretheless hawking it out for this tedious book shows that in fact its likely she doesn't give a frig anyway

It’s so shocking that she actually thinks it’s ok and she clearly does or she wouldn’t freely write it in her book for all to read. They shock the hell out of me that such irresponsible parents have such responsible jobs.

 

[tootootoot]

It’s so shocking that she actually thinks it’s ok and she clearly does or she wouldn’t freely write it in her book for all to read. They shock the hell out of me that such irresponsible parents have such responsible jobs.

Are they both still practicing as doctors?

 

[Vulnavia]