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Savewaterdrinkgin

Chatty Member
They weren’t being watched until they were made arguidos. The U.K. believed their version of events that a child had been abducted, no one here suspected them until the inconsistencies were revealed. They were free to do as they wish, as the hire car mileage proves. Plus there may have been more people involved that we know nothing about. The Portuguese police suspected them based on the facts in front of them upon arrival, and as evidence came to light it just added to their suspicions. The police officer Amaral wrote a book detailing everything, Kate and Gerry paid huge amounts of money to stop the book being released in the U.K.

Off the top of my head they said she shared clothes with Amelie so they were unable to get full dna from them, same for the toothbrush. Children’s clothes were found dumped, they believed there to be a dna link to Maddie on them but not enough to use as real evidence.

I also remember someone finding evidence the McCanns had been on that same holiday the year before, yet claim they’d never visited before. That made many speculate the photos released on the holiday were from the previous trip and slightly edited to make the twins look older/weather discrepancies etc.
 
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monga

VIP Member
I think if there hadn’t been Madeleine there wouldn’t have been Shannon. I wonder how Shannon is doing these days? Poor kid.
Her mums having a surrogate baby with her weirdo partner . I hope that kid is removed at birth for it's own sake 😑
 
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At 15 I'm sure they're curious. They must get asked about it at school. I'm sure if they haven't already googled, they will eventually.
I'm impressed they've been kept so private. I have to commend the parents for that.... have we even SEEN the twins since Maddie went missing? Knowing what british press can be like I'm really impressed by that. No clue how they managed it.
I presume there are legal orders in place.
Some celebrities can ask for a blank out of their children's faces. I would think that given the McCann's aren't 'celebrities' it would have been fairly easy to secure this under a protection of minors order. The same as siblings of other high profile murder cases. Holly and Jessica, Sarah Payne etc.
 
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monga

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To me leaving a toddler to fend for themselves in any place alone is as bad as throwing them to the wolves .
 
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Tigger1

Well-known member
So with this latest suspect, has anyone heard/read whether they have enough to charge (am assuming not) or what the situation is? Seems like they have given out a huge amount of personal info about the inspect which is really unusual. Surely he could sue if it turns out he doesn’t have anything to do with it? I feel like they must be pretty certain?
 
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Consumerism_fatigue

Active member
Am I allowed to post this?
I’d imagine a prosecutor wouldn’t be able to share the case details but wanted the family to know? That being said, why not go through the police liaison teams...

I served on the jury of a horrific murder trial last year and the family of the victim didn’t know any of the details until it all came out in court. Truly awful to see their pain. Anyway, I digress! That’s the only reason I can think of as to why they can’t know yet. Unless they’re trying to double bluff the parents into slipping up (if they think they’re guilty)
 
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Sara_M

VIP Member
Unless of course they were never that friendly in the first place. We know for a fact that the Gaspars had never met the other couples before the holiday. That to me is quite weird in itself.
What I thought was a little interesting is, it was David Payne who seemed to be the organiser of these big holidays. Now, I realise some people are just good organisers😂, but, after their official statement about him, it would make you question his intent behind these large group, family holidays, of people who do not seem to know each other that well.
 
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Tigger1

Well-known member
How do they find suspects 13 years after it’s happened. It always amazes me. I just hope they find out what happened.
If they ever do get to a definite answer I hope there is a time when we get to see all the evidence. Does that sound bad? I just find it all so interesting.
 
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Tots

VIP Member
Irrelevant the grand scheme of things but why oh why were the children sharing toothbrushes?

I know, I’ve never understood that! Even though they were sisters, it’s terrible dental hygiene to share a toothbrush!
 
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LittleMy

VIP Member
Maybe a video OF him bragging about what he did with Maddie's body and thats whats taken the police to the wells? If theres no body, the video could be dismissed as insignificant?



Thats interesting, I read he bragged about it to a friend and thats who reported it which made German police look in to it. There are so many conflicting reports!!
I’ve read both of those reports. Apparently he mentioned about “knowing what happened” to Maddie to a friend, and then proceeded to show the friend a video of him raping a 72 year old woman. I then read a few days ago that he allegedly overheard colleagues discussing the Maddie case and said, “The child is dead, and that’s a good thing” or words to that effect. Then he apparently shouted about how pigs will eat human flesh. Maybe he said both those things, maybe he didn’t say either. It’s all very odd and the tabloids don’t help, it’s like Chinese whispers.
 
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birdiefly246

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Same here. I was brought up Catholic. I'm 40 now. Last time I went to confession was years ago in school when we were forced to go. Only time I go to mass now is for weddings and funerals. I don't know anyone of my generation who is a devout Catholic or a regular massgoer.
A lot of people who aren't Catholic seem to think that if you are then you must be a devout, very religious person. I can only speak for myself and people I know, but that's really not the case. I've seen that said lots of times about Coleen Rooney and how she'll never divorce Wayne 'because she's Catholic'. I very much doubt that has anything to do with her. More like she'll never divorce Wayne because she'd have a lot less free holidays!

I have Catholic friends who are divorced. My sister in law is Irish and Catholic (albeit very lapsed like the rest of us) She voted in favour of same sex marriage and in favour of abortion in Ireland a couple of years ago, even though the Catholic church is against both. 2/3 of Ireland voted in favour of abortion. Realistically at least 2/3 of Ireland is probably Catholic.

Apologies, I know I've gone way off topic there, but my point is that the McCann's may well be Catholic, but that doesn't mean that they're regular mass goers or that they're anyway devout, and as @birdiefly246 said, they wouldn't be the first people to turn back to religion in a time of crisis either.
Also, my (Irish) sil's uncle is Catholic and is also a mason.

You articulated that way better than I could so thank you!! My grandmother (84) is and has always been devout but she's very liberal in views in terms of same sex marriage, tattoos, babies outside of wedlock. She's just aware that times have changed. My cousin is a lesbian and there's a picture of her and my nan on her wedding day smiling and my nan is genuinely loving and accepting of her, her wife and her wife's kids who my nan classes as grandchildren.
What I was trying to say was that you can be catholic and not necessarily abide by all the rules and traditions.
 
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paigelemonade

VIP Member
Ngl they’ll need some pretty damning evidence against him in order to have him prosecuted for it, due to all the other ‘evidence’ that is against the McCanns, which makes people believe it was them. And like other people have mentioned, it may be claimed it’s an unfair trial if it goes to that because so much of his past crimes are in the media. Either way he needs to rot in hell but still wouldn’t like to see this pinned on him just for the sake of it, purely because it means the real abductor/the McCanns are still at large, but if it was him and they have secure enough evidence to prove it was, I hope they lock him up and throw away the key.
 
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hnoz

VIP Member
The thing that makes the parents theory fall apart imo is all the friends being in on it. I have had some close friends since childhood that I love, but I would never in a million years cover for them killing their child, accidentally or otherwise, and cover that up. I find it totally unbelievable that they have all kept that a "secret" for so many years.
 
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Scubasf

Active member
My thoughts and suspicions about this case are based on what is reported in the police files (which I traveled through during a very long period of illness years ago).

They lead me to believe that EITHER the McCanns had a hand in her disappearance OR they lied, created confusion and acted strangely for another reason. The lies, inconsistencies and strange behaviour are there to see in the files. Either way, they were trying to cover something up. Whether that is that they disposed of their daughter’s corpse or something unrelated that they needed to not come out I don’t know. The dog evidence backs up the theory that they disposed of Madeleine’s body, but dog evidence can it be used in court, so although it colours my opinion, I try to look at the evidence without taking that into account.
 
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Apple In My Pie

VIP Member
Good point. Much of this kind of information doesn't get mentioned today.

There was no DNA of Maddie's to be found by forensics when they combed the place. DNA is practically impossible to eliminate.

In the end, the Police flew back to the UK with one of the parents and secured her DNA from her pillow and other items.

Another fact that always left out is they found spinal fluid on the floor behind the curtains but had none of her DNA to compare it to. They later confirmed it was hers.

As the Police said at the time, it was like she was never in the apartment. That, is a lot of cleaning.
Yes - glad I’m not the only one to remember this. IIRC they found blood under tiles as well but it was minuscule amounts, not enough to conclusively say whether it belonged to Madeleine. There was no drool on her (hotel) pillows to extract, hairs from the hairbrush were inconclusive, and she was apparently sharing Amelie’s toothbrush so that was inconclusive too. I’ve heard reports that it was as though she was never in the apartment because there was just... nothing - the most conclusive DNA evidence of Maddie came from the hire car that came days and days after her disappearance.

Of the parents, apparently the fridge freezer in their apartment broke down and Gerry disposed of it and bought a new one - very kind of him, isn’t it! 🙂

(as you can see by my posts I am wedged firmly on the fence. Wish I could hurry up and pick a side, my arse is getting splinters)
 
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Twinkleyeyes

Active member
The Tapas 7. Strange how 7 ADULT friends were all ok dining a few days in a row (8pm dinner meetups?) knowing 3 toddlers were alone in an apartment.
I know NONE of my friends would be OK with that😡
 
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LittleMy

VIP Member
Is that you Kate?
I don’t think it’s fair to have those little digs at people who don’t believe the parents had any involvement in her death. You can be of the mindset that they didn’t do it, without actually being them you know...

The fact that the parents have been written to by the German prosecutor and told that she is dead and it’s likely their suspect is responsible is just truly awful, no matter what wild theories you throw out there; they must have substantial evidence in the first place to even do that, I’d imagine.
 
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Sara_M

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Those who support the McCanns, what are your thoughts on the Gaspar statement?

They seemed to be a pretty close, normal mother daughter.
Ever since then I’ve been convinced Kate didn’t do anything to harm Maddie. I work with a lot of criminals and I get an “off vibe” with wronguns. I didn’t get that from Kate. I got vibes of a mother who very very much loved her child.
If the mccanns are guilty, I dont think they deliberately killed her. I think it was a complete accident. Kate looks absolutely haunted. I don't think she intentionally killed her daughter.
 
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RedMagnolia

VIP Member
He should be lynched to be quite honest

Still say the parents did it.

Also who leaves their kids on holiday alone? My family always dragged me out even if I was tired to the family bars on holiday as a kid. They never chanced it.

Also you’d always see babies or kids asleep on the chairs when they got sleepy at karaoke bars after like 8pm anyway and the parents chatting
I have endless photos of my children conked out in the buggy, or snoozing in a chair with a cushion and jacket over them, in various bars and restaurants throughout Europe, on our family holidays when they were little. No way would I have left my children alone in a strange apartment. If for whatever reason, we didn't go out in the evening, we'd self-cater and sit on the balcony with a bottle of wine and have a game of cards, while they slept in bed.
 
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Savewaterdrinkgin

Chatty Member
Completely agree with everything you both said Apple and Sara, no case has been like this one before or since. I have a gut feeling Mrs fenn May have been threatened or paid off to change her story. I could be wrong and it could be complete lies, but I wouldn’t trust the McCanns if they told me the sky was blue.
Gerry definitely said he was a Freemason too. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but he changed his story a lot, ‘confusion is good’ are the words he used.

The police were concerned the twins were drugged as they didn’t wake, but kate and Gerry refused for them to be tested or checked over until months later implying they knew they were drugged and when it would leave their system. They let the twins back in the care of the club staff the next day, would you risk that not knowing if one of them was the abductor? I wouldn’t trust anyone, not my friends we were with or even potentially each other in that moment. If I were the twins now I’d be very suspicious of my parents and I’d question why they put me at risk too. They must deep down have some suspicions themselves by now, or maybe even remember something that would solve the case.

A neighbour spoke out shocked that they had an older daughter as they thought the twins were their only children. Why had they never seen Maddie with her parents? No comments from friends or nursery staff saying what a lovely girl she is and they miss her etc as you see with many cases. If they went to the trouble to ban this, why?

Has anyone seen the photo of Kate in a hammock with a young Maddie and a little boy? They look very similar. I believe someone found out his name but there was no mention of who he was and why he was with the McCanns, leading people to think she was a twin or there was a secret child before her, but that goes down the conspiracy theory route. Some people thought Gerry wasn’t the biological father or they’d used a surrogate, refusing to show medical records makes you wonder what they wanted to hide and how these rumours even came about.

2 of the men from the group went out to sea on a catamaran and one of them accidentally fell in, supposedly. Some clothes were found washed up along the beach. Imo they were testing if and where something would wash up. Perhaps dumping evidence. The question is why they mentioned this as it could have implicated them.

The cats file is a big clue something wasn’t right with Gerry. You don’t just have a folder, if one exists there is a reason and the fact is was empty means someone purposely deleted whatever was in it, there’s no alternative. It was long before the fairytale abduction too. They can be opened for many reasons, domestic violence for example. David Payne was recognised by a social worker and she knew something wasn’t right when she found out he was part of the group, her concern for the children was noticed.

Have they ever publicly answered the people who wanted to know what is in the urn that appeared on their mantlepiece in the documentary? I know it was believed to be a money pot, but it’s a strange thing to place centre stage in a shrine for your missing daughter.


As for the debate over why they wouldn’t come clean if their daughter had died accidentally or otherwise, I’m assuming they couldn’t allow an autopsy for whatever reason. Perhaps it would uncover abuse. Possibly being blackmailed if someone with power was involved. If Maddie was an unwell child as some believed, they could have been self diagnosing and medicating, not necessarily drugging her to sleep although that’s the most likely cause.

Think back to Gerry and David’s vile talk about the little girls in the group. Kate’s description of her child’s genitals. The men bathing all the children. They became friends with Clement frued. This was no normal holiday imo, they weren’t there to enjoy themselves remember. ‘It was our holiday too’ said Kate. The sad photo of Maddie in make up makes me think it was sinister. She was getting to an age where she could tell an adult about something going on at home. They couldn’t risk that. I honestly think whatever happened on that holiday it was something awful either planned on purpose or something went wrong and a terrible accident occurred. I don’t think kate got her chance to say goodbye, ‘they’ve taken her’ seemed to me like the plan had changed without her knowledge. Maddie was likely transported back into the U.K. or another country long before she was even reported missing imo. They were safe in the knowledge she’d never be found, their only concern was hiding the evidence and making the world believe them and now that stress shows in Kate’s face. The only believable emotion I’ve seen from Kate is when she fondly remembered a moment with Maddie trying on her ring. If she didn’t spend much time with her I doubt she had many memories to hold onto, and facts aside as a mother myself that would be heartbreaking.

You’re right there are evil people in the world that harm children on purpose, just look at the news. If it wasn’t the parents how are any of these points possible? There wouldn’t have been blood in the apartment and it wouldn’t have been washed away, they wouldn’t have needed to set their story straight with a timeline as they’d have no story to magic up, they wouldn’t have insisted on an abduction as Maddie could have gone outside looking for her parents and shown up 5 minutes later, there would have been dna everywhere, the dogs wouldn’t have alerted to anything, they would have answered all the questions and shown true fear at what had happened to their daughter, they wouldn’t have played tennis or had their hair done or laughed in fear their child was being abused, calling sky to report her missing would have been the last thing on their minds, deleting call logs and photos no chance it’ll be helpful to track a possible stalker with those, the twins wouldn’t leave my sight, I’d speed to every sighting myself if I had to, people doubting my story would be ignored as I’d have nothing to hide and I’d happily take a lie detector test which they refused, you get my drift that all the factual evidence only happened because they let it which innocent people wouldn’t even think of in that moment.

I’d love to be proven wrong and if they have genuine strong evidence against this man and he hasn’t been set up I hope it brings closure, but with all the evidence against the McCanns I find it highly unlikely for them to get so much coincidental bad luck that circumstances put them in the frame time and time again.
 
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