Well, yeh, let’s label all the other staff members as incompetent and unbothered.
Maybe some blame should be laid at the feet of the, potential, murderer.
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Maybe some blame should be laid at the feet of the, potential, murderer.
deffo sounds off the record to me as well. No matter which way you look at it this was clearly a failing hospital that was very poorly managed in the first place for an alleged serial killer of babies to work there for so long and get away with it for so long.
I would think that then just becomes hearsay?
I can’t work out if this raising of concerns still relates to babies a&b? Or when he was concerned about baby K?
I can’t honestly believe that a Doctor would allow it to get to baby Q if he had these concerns? Is there seriously no other way to take this rather than to the people who told him not to make a fuss?
Exactly, people are fit to lynch him after this. I don't think he is lying. I don't think ANY of these Dr's, nurses, specialists or parents have been lying or "misremembering".
They are damning themselves by being as honest as they are right now.
Where is this unadulterated rage towards Letby, the person who is actually on trial? I'm so confused by people's take on this, I really am at a loss.
I’m dipping out until tomorrow. Bye for now folks.
Good idea.
If anything happens at work now I'm going to be honest I keep my head down and look for another job. Healthcare can be so toxic , you so want to advocate fully for your patients but you could end up losing your livelihood if a team doesn't like you.
Because so far- whether we like it or not, two weeks in to a 6 month trial we’ve not seen any firm evidence she did it. She’s not admitted to anything. Whereas this doctor has? The firm evidence against her will come later presumably, and then so will all the anger and rage towards her.
But opposite to that, what has happened today is someone has admitted to being incompetent? And failing to do their job properly? So yes, actually I will be angry at him. And I’ll be angry about the accused when/if she’s found guilty.
I’ve not read it yet
www.bbc.co.uk
Lucy was on shift for every single one of these 17 babies that collapsed, and 7 of them died. Do you not feel any anger that at best she was also incompetent and didn’t do enough for them?
Baby became ill very quickly, nurse's trial told - BBC News
A nurse thought "not again" when a baby suddenly collapsed in hospital, the trial of Lucy Letby hears.
www.bbc.co.uk
She literally wrote a note saying ‘I killed them on purpose because i am not good enough to care for them’ ‘I am evil I did this’. That’s far more damning than a doctor saying he should have done more when he had suspicions.
Lucy was on shift for every single one of these 17 babies that collapsed, and 7 of them died. Do you not feel any anger that at best she was also incompetent and didn’t do enough for them?
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There has been a duck ton of anger and presumed guilt towards Lucy. Seriously? Saying he should have done more isn't saying she's now getting off scot-free. She's the one on the murder trial lets not forget.
Right he should have raised concerns before baby k at some point, given his thought process during the incident involving baby k. He seems concerned enough to go drop what he’s doing and go and check where she is in the room. He’s suspicious of her before anything with baby k and if he hasn’t raised his concerns by now that’s unforgivable.
if he has raised those concerns and been pushed back the baby k incident should have confirmed his suspicions. He should have pushed at this point, where’s the “look remember what I said about Letby” to the management?
Felt really sad for the parents having to hear this. To think it could have been preventable is the worst feeling I imagine. His testimony does feel truthful though because he's opened up the hospital (and himself) for negligence charges now from the parents.
But to me that does indicate there were suspicions about LL from others. For even her close friend, mentor, and uni buddy to think this was an 'oh no not again' moment feels like a lot of people thought these were unusual cases. And makes me question why LL herself didn't agree or comment on it in any of her messages or interviews.
The defence lawyer asks Nurse A to validate that LL was dedicated to her job and highly professional - which she did. She spent all her time at work, we know this. So why didn't she ever raise the alarm or make medical notes mentioning it or ask for bags/tests to be run or texted people discussing how odd it was. Especially since she was the only one present at all of them so had a good idea how much the collapses were increasing. To me, someone dedicated to their job will be concerned about a lot of collapses and try to get to the bottom of it, be meticulous in her work and focused on fixing problems - because what else was she doing? She texted about being bored so clearly had the time. It just doesn't fit the profile of a workaholic, dedicated, highly qualified professional to be so meh about something everyone else was concerned about.
Of course it doesn't mean she's guilty, but i find it odd the defence are focused on this because her behaviour does not come across professional or dedicated at all so far.
But to me that does indicate there were suspicions about LL from others. For even her close friend, mentor, and uni buddy to think this was an 'oh no not again' moment feels like a lot of people thought these were unusual cases. And makes me question why LL herself didn't agree or comment on it in any of her messages or interviews.
The defence lawyer asks Nurse A to validate that LL was dedicated to her job and highly professional - which she did. She spent all her time at work, we know this. So why didn't she ever raise the alarm or make medical notes mentioning it or ask for bags/tests to be run or texted people discussing how odd it was. Especially since she was the only one present at all of them so had a good idea how much the collapses were increasing. To me, someone dedicated to their job will be concerned about a lot of collapses and try to get to the bottom of it, be meticulous in her work and focused on fixing problems - because what else was she doing? She texted about being bored so clearly had the time. It just doesn't fit the profile of a workaholic, dedicated, highly qualified professional to be so meh about something everyone else was concerned about.
Of course it doesn't mean she's guilty, but i find it odd the defence are focused on this because her behaviour does not come across professional or dedicated at all so far.
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So it has taken police years to accumulate evidence to hopefully be sufficient to gain a conviction for multiple murder charges - yet this doctor is at fault for not piecing together that he was working with a multiple murder after 2x deaths?
So he was expected to automatically jump to the conclusion that LL was murdering babies - surely the most unlikely, improbable cause of 2x deaths in hospital? Really??
I can understand that posters are shocked and angry but I think some need to stop, think what they are saying, and give their heads a wobble
How would you like to be in his position?
As the saying goes hindsight is a wonderful thing.
So he was expected to automatically jump to the conclusion that LL was murdering babies - surely the most unlikely, improbable cause of 2x deaths in hospital? Really??
I can understand that posters are shocked and angry but I think some need to stop, think what they are saying, and give their heads a wobble
How would you like to be in his position?
As the saying goes hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I think anyone who thinks the Doctor is a victim here, deserving of any real sympathy would sharp change their tune if that were their baby. Last I'll say on it.
Well yes I agree with you, but I’m not sure why him not doing enough means he’s lying? It’s clear as day people at the hospital didn’t do enough. His testimony just supports that - he was one of the hospital staff that didn’t do enough whether it was murder or some other reason those babies were failed.
Re: Dr Jayaram. It hasn't said what channels he went through to raise his suspicions though and he is still only giving evidence on baby A and B at the moment which are the first suspected cases. We have no idea how many times he had raised concerns at that stage or since then as it hasnt been reported on. It's a huge jump to blame him when we have no idea at this stage what he did or didn't do. Hopefully that will be revealed as we go further into the evidence during the trial.
You also need evidence and in fairness, if it took the police a few years and 3 arrests to get this past CPS threshold then I would say they've really had to fight to find the evidence to back up the allegations. Therefore, how much power did he really have to take it further if senior managers shot it down?
As a side note, I wonder why a nurse witness wouldn't be named for legal reasons? I get someone being a minor, or the anonymity for fsmily and the babies involved, but its quite unusual for an adult witness to not be named
You also need evidence and in fairness, if it took the police a few years and 3 arrests to get this past CPS threshold then I would say they've really had to fight to find the evidence to back up the allegations. Therefore, how much power did he really have to take it further if senior managers shot it down?
As a side note, I wonder why a nurse witness wouldn't be named for legal reasons? I get someone being a minor, or the anonymity for fsmily and the babies involved, but its quite unusual for an adult witness to not be named
I’ve not seen anyone saying he’s lying? But I may have missed that.
What I am seeing is a lot of people defending someone who’s been professionally negligent and failed to do their job- and those same people somehow asking everyone to be angry at the accused (who’s yet to be found guilty) but not to be angry at someone who’s admitted wrongdoing?
Imagine being told to be angry at her but simultaneously not be angry at him? You can be angry at both of them!!! Why shouldn’t people be angry at him? He admitted to not doing his job properly!
I mean, surely you’d put in a police report just to cover your own arse at least?? This case is truly harrowing tbh.
If she is a serial killer of babies (if) then serial killers tend to go into berzerker mode that eventually gets them caught the longer their streak goes on, because they get diminishing returns on their high. Only a few notable serial killers have been able to turn it off and on again, like the Green River Killer who went inactive for decades before starting again.
More often then not though, they tend to reduce the turnaround time on victims.
I think he’s stretched the truth to appear somewhat noble and I don’t like that.
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