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Deeznutslol

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Because it's embarrassing. Makes you look like a weirdo. Likelihood is she was being nosy. Ethically very dodgy but doesn't equate to murder.
Exactly. Lets face it, searching up any former patient is weird and extremely unprofessional. Let’s not try and normalize it, but I think this is a very good explanation as to why she probably denied it! She knew it’d look dodgy and didn’t want to incriminate herself.
 
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jackolantern

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Okay I went looking and found a BBC article about the bath incident, Lucy strikes me as a person with zero self awareness and low on the empathy scale. Doesn't take a genius to realise that's not what you say to a mother washing her dead daughter. Just leave her the fuck alone. Again as another poster has said, she likes to make situations about her. I think at the very least we can all agree she's an extremely odd person.

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I think this is alot of the problem, she comes across as an extremely detached, bizarre person. Or goes to the other end of the scale and is way too involved. She's just really fucking weird and it makes her seem suspicious which doesn't help the case.
 
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riddleme89

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Strange a work friend text saying something was odd that night

not often a nurse would say that .
 
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just_nicole

Active member
Sorry still catching up so here are a few thoughts, cba quoting because the message would be huge. Still will be but, ah well.

Sorry in advance if I pick up on something you've said it's not directly aimed at anyone.

Tv programme wise, I can't see the prosecution pushing it heavily. Or at least it wouldn't be smart prosecution if they did.

They are wanting to highlight how uncommon crashes are and the significance of air in the bowels- programme shows that happens without a twisted nurse making it happen. Maybe they could use it to play into Lucy's boredom of having to do general feeding duties 🤷‍♀️

In respects of the eye witness testimonials, Defence has already outlined their approach to it.
There was a line in the opening can't remember the wording but essentially making a point of.
How a nurse standing by a cot would not be unusual or arouse suspicion. However, cast a shadow of guilt on that nurse alters people's perception of the event entirely.

Personally if I had been through the trauma those parents had, I'd drive myself insane going over, and over every interaction that nurse had with my baby.

Would I see a sympathetic smile as malicious, probably.
Would I pick up on everything that nurse said to me and look back at it differently, yes.

I'd want justice for my child.
I have nothing but absolute respect for every single one of those families, doesn't mean that their testimonials are mis remembering or fabricated. It means that they now have a different perception of the event.

It's the reason that eye witness testimonials are the easiest to disprove. They are also the most emotive for the jury though.

There is one statement that I don't think can be disproved and that was the mother who dropped off the feed at 9pm, there are phone records and other details surrounding that one in those instances.

Sorry for the essay, I had a lot to catch up on thread wise
 
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Dexy

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I think separately maybe things can be explained/reasoned ( like people have admitted on here to Facebook stalking, said it’s not unusual to take notes home etc ) but all together it is going to start painting a really sinister picture.


I don’t believe the prosecution are done yet. There’s more to come.
 
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#notanadad

VIP Member
I find this so hard because my gut is that she's guilty but I agree with a lot of people who have said there hasn't been enough evidence so far to say yes 100% she's guilty.

All along I've been thinking "what would prompt someone to suddenly start killing babies?!" But after todays evidence I'm thinking she was OBSESSED with her work... wanted a bit more "interesting" things to happen at work, wanted some more drama and to be the one to save the day. I'm even thinking she didn't intend to kill originally. Maybe she'd been contemplating something for a while but couldn't bring herself to do anything, then that one day she got onto shift and thought right if I don't do it right now I'll chicken out again. Then it perhaps snowballed after the first event caused a death, she got a high from the attention etc and carried on??

Obviously all speculation but I'm so interested to see what everyone else's opinion is on how/why she started??
 
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veevee04

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If I was traumatised and felt for the families yeah i probably would, but we are all so different. I look up the most random people from my past, just to see what they are upto. Again it’s just the whole being a nosey parker thing. She might of been on Facebook and though “ ah I wonder how they are getting on” and just typed their name in and looked for like 5 seconds. Within an hour I could’ve looked up over 100 people!
When I'm stressed not in a good place , I would look up an ex , a teenage friend I had fallen out with more to see how they were doing. I sometimes ruminate on the past and how things have gone. I've also looked up my best friend's ex as he was a dick !!! Some people are really nosey (I'm one of these) scary to think my nosiness could be brought in court 🤣🤣🤣
 
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EllsBellsWells

Chatty Member
One thing that this case really highlights to me is the sheer danger many parts of the NHS are in, and how they’ve had to be run these last few years. I know serial killers have done this before over the years but look how much stuff is already coming out that show how strained her ward/hospital was. I feel awful for all those who are working in the NHS and give everything they have to keeping it going. But people are human and can only do so much if there simply aren’t enough staff around to provide safe care and treatment.

If she’s innocent, then this clearly highlights the multiple failings that kept happening, and if she’s guilty I can’t help but wonder if fewer babies would have died because maybe things might have been picked up on sooner? Could she have been stopped? Would people have noticed if there was enough staff? I’m genuinely trying to remain on the fence about whether she did it or not as I expect there’s still a lot we don’t know yet. I feel so sorry for the families as they must also know there were failings. And for staff involved, some of whom are probably looking back now and only just realising the full extent of what has actually happened and wondering whether they could have stopped it.
 
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I do find this really suspicious. It looks like deflection to me.


On June 30, following the deaths of Child A, C and D, and the non-fatal collapse of Child B, Letby's colleague messaged her there was something 'odd' about that night.

Letby replies: 'What do you mean? Odd that we lost three and in different cicrumstances?'

Letby's colleague responds: "I don't know, were they that different?"

The colleague added: "Ignore me, I'm speculating."

This struck me as really really strange. Her messages are what has swung me today from thinking possibly innocent to firmly guilty.
 
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Milktray

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People saying the mother could mis-remember because of the emotion/trauma of the situation. Can you imagine if rape victims were told as standard, that their memories are crap because they were traumatised by the situation?? What a terrible, dangerous precedent that would be for any victim of a crime.
Yes, but a criminal trial relies heavily on other evidence. Its not a case of being heartless, it is fact that memory can become distorted during trauma. That is a fact. Nobody is saying it to be cruel. Nobody is saying it to discredit the parents grief.
I have been in this situation. My memory is still to this day, messed up.

Collectively with documentary evidence, chain of events etc, then witnesses/statements are more powerful.
 
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Lucyxxxx

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Genuine question, not baiting, I'm just honestly curious, for you and others who think it's plausible she is innocent and it is a cover-up - do you believe then that it was just pure coincidence she was present for all cases? And the NHS have just taken advantage of that and are using her as fall boy?
See there was a baby where she wasn't even there, which makes me feel like the prosecution are just forcing things to fit (there are other things but that's one that sticks in my mind). I don't quiet know whether she's a scapegoat or police have become suspicious about her and just gone in tunnel vision? The attempted murder charges I do find a bit far fetched from what we've heard. The twins O and P I believe, I find it odd from what we've heard 2 little boys closely biologically related are the only ones we've heard about suffering from liver injuries? I do think she has questions to answer obviously but this to me what the prosecution says just doesn't quiet "fit" the way you'd expect something to if it made sense and was a true reflection of what had happened.
 
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SwizzleMalarkey

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I’m really interested to see more people from those that lean undecided and innocent, put forward a way that gives explanations for everything at once rather than separately. So you have to say all the times she was there, that also events were odd and out the norm and totally unexpected, unusual and uncommon symptoms and similar to each baby, medical experts that can say bowel was filled with air/ insulin poisoning, creepy Facebook, conspiring docs/hospital bosses/nurses, parents misremembering or been police interviewed by morons that have told her they think Lucy murdered their babies etc… like how it all adds up as the big pic. I’m not really interested in how everyone uses Facebook themselves 😅😵💫 🤷🏻‍♀️ Like how many of the 24 charges can you get through saying - this was incompetence- this the baby clearly had a death sentence- this could have been someone else, this could be a doctor making it fit… like in totality it’s a hell of a lot of “I’m just saying what could have happened”
The pleading guilty thing is nonsense. There’s a lady on trial for murdering her neighbour. Decapitated. This lady is pictured carrying out suitcases from the deceased home. Hired a car and drove it to the location the body was found. Motive was financial of which there’s lots of evidence. She’s still pleading not guilty. Guess what - me being the naughty jury member I am (joke!) also thinks she’s guilty 😆
I am undecided and for these reasons:
•We haven’t yet seen the evidence that shows the babies all had unusual/uncommon symptoms - I want to hear from medical experts to clarify that and why it wasn’t picked up at the time.
•She was there for every case - we need to see statistics on her overtime and also clarify she was the only one who could have been there, they mentioned about the swipe cards in and out and I’d like to see how certain they are she was always the last one with the baby.
•They are saying air embolism now but that wasn’t mentioned at the time by the coroner - why? Will need to hear more from expert witnesses.
•The insulin poisoning is the one that could tip me towards guilty as someone must be responsible for that - so need to hear who else had access to that bag and any possible explanations.
•I don’t find the Facebook thing creepy at all. I think that’s personal opinion/subjective 🤷🏻‍♀️
•I don’t think the hospital were conspiring or there is some big cover up, but it seems they could be to blame for incompetence in many of the cases.
•I don’t think the parents misremembered necessarily. LL may have meant it nicely and it came across wrong or she may have said it as a brag in a horrible way. But people say cruel, heartless and tactless things every day. It doesn’t make them murderers.
For me there are too many variables, too many unknowns and too many questions to say she is guilty yet. I’m firmly ‘unsure’ until we’ve seen the case put forward on both sides.
 
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riddleme89

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She messages numerous work colleagues after the deaths . Understandable that she might be upset if she didn’t kill the child but it comes across to me that letby loves the attention.
Maybe a motive if she is found guilty on why she did it .
 
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Emmelina Ball

VIP Member
Following on from the discussion about the text messages. BBC have reported them differently - I think it was said here she initiated all conversations but it said here she replied to a text when a colleague text her “hi Lucy hope you are ok”
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avabella

VIP Member
By some people's reactions to the Facebook searches, I'm also a potential murder suspect. Good to know :censored::censored::censored:
 
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Prissypaws

Chatty Member
Sure. But weird = neurodiverse is a damaging association and also diminishes the fact some people are just not good people. As a concept it is thrown around too heavily. Whenever someone makes us uncomfortable we assume they must be neurodiverse, which is a bit unfeeling to the community IMO.
I’m in the community , and if you don’t think society interpret autistic behaviour and speech and logic as “socially weird” then you’re wrong. I’m not saying it’s right society do this, I’m saying it’s what happens.
 
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jackolantern

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I agree although part of me wonders based on what else we have read about her if she was just really awkward and weird and didn’t think before she spoke . I know I have had situations like that at work and thought oh shit afterwards .
I think for me, it keeps coming back to the discussion before. If it were any of these things on there own, I'd just put it down to things like that, being a bit social awkward, a bit nosey, a bit obsessive etc. But it's one thing after the next and after the next and when you put them all together, the picture seems very grim.
 
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freaknasty

Chatty Member
I lean heavily towards guilty, but another explanation for the Facebook searches could be that she simply didn't have a lot going on in her life, not a lot of friends etc, and became obsessed with finding out about her patients lives, living vicariously through them perhaps?
 
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