Lucy Letby Case #7

[I’mThankyou_]

Continuing from thread 6.
Today is day 2, week 2 of what's expected to be a 6 month trial.
Yesterday we heard the agreed facts surrounding Baby A&B and also statements from Baby A&Bs Parents & Grandmother.
Claire Hocknell the intelligence analyst employed by Cheshire Police also provided insight into data from Lucy's Phone.

Today, the court is expected to hear further evidence in relation to the cases of Child A and B, baby twins born at the Countess of Chester Hospital in June 2015.

Previous days are listed in the Wiki, along with support sources for anyone who is affected and struggling with the trial.

 

[Stiltoncheese]

Sorry posted at end of last thread and so my question may be missed, so I'll post it again here.

Someone mentioned the text she sent to a colleague about working a split shift. For those of us not working for NHS...what is a split shift and what (if any) significance is that to this case?

 

[jackolantern]

I still can't wrap my head around this being a 6 month trial, so bloody harrowing for everyone involved but the sheer body of evidence to go through, I don't envy the judge or jury

 

[I’mThankyou_]

Sorry posted at end of last thread and so my question may be missed, so I'll post it again here.

Someone mentioned the text she sent to a colleague about working a split shift. For those of us not working for NHS...what is a split shift and what (if any) significance is that to this case?

On our ward we'd often be asked to do a split shift so we'd usually do 7am till around 12-1pm then go home and come back and do the twilight shift which would be 7pm till around 1am.
Could be something like this
The only significance it highlights to me at the moment is that the ward was seriously short staffed and they were trying to keep as many bodies on a safeish ratio as they possibly could

 

[Dizzy]

I still can't wrap my head around this being a 6 month trial, so bloody harrowing for everyone involved but the sheer body of evidence to go through, I don't envy the judge or jury

Would the jurors be offered support I wonder? Six months is a long time to live this case.

 

[I’mThankyou_]

@MmmB777 just wanted to say you have my condolences on the whole being married to a tory front

 

[stardust1]

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18

THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more while working as a Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Is this the live link for today?

 

[Daisydunn15]

On our ward we'd often be asked to do a split shift so we'd usually do 7am till around 12-1pm then go home and come back and do the twilight shift which would be 7pm till around 1am.
Could be something like this
The only significance it highlights to me at the moment is that the ward was seriously short staffed and they were trying to keep as many bodies on a safeish ratio as they possibly could

Ah the way I read it was that they'd asked her to split her line of shifts, so 2 shifts right now because of the acuity due to unwell twins then her other shifts as planned. I've seen both happen when really understaffed. It also shows that she was very accommodating to the ward, I'd only ever text the nurses I thought would say yes.

 

[Lackofimagination]

Would the jurors be offered support I wonder? Six months is a long time to live this case.

I would say so, especially the victims of this case. I know you probably can’t say this type of thing these days but it’a the type of case to make the toughest of criminals/men/women break. I would hope the innocent jurors are getting support. Surely they are.

 

[MmmB777]

@MmmB777 just wanted to say you have my condolences on the whole being married to a tory front

Lol! He’s not a Tory any more thank duck for that I mean..do you think I’m going to write so persuasively about my opinion on LL online and not convince him tories are shite. It’s not been a hard sell of late x
To not derail- I’m camp guilty if you’ve not guessed sorry didn’t know what else to say

 

[Lackofimagination]

Sorry I meant especially as the age of the victims / circumstances.

 

[EllsBellsWells]

One thing that this case really highlights to me is the sheer danger many parts of the NHS are in, and how they’ve had to be run these last few years. I know serial killers have done this before over the years but look how much stuff is already coming out that show how strained her ward/hospital was. I feel awful for all those who are working in the NHS and give everything they have to keeping it going. But people are human and can only do so much if there simply aren’t enough staff around to provide safe care and treatment.

If she’s innocent, then this clearly highlights the multiple failings that kept happening, and if she’s guilty I can’t help but wonder if fewer babies would have died because maybe things might have been picked up on sooner? Could she have been stopped? Would people have noticed if there was enough staff? I’m genuinely trying to remain on the fence about whether she did it or not as I expect there’s still a lot we don’t know yet. I feel so sorry for the families as they must also know there were failings. And for staff involved, some of whom are probably looking back now and only just realising the full extent of what has actually happened and wondering whether they could have stopped it.

 

[TheWitchIsBack]

I know on previous threads a few people have said that motive isn’t really relevant on this but I do think it would add a whole load of context to why the CPS have decided to proceed with prosecuting her. I also think that they will introduce this and it will explain the digging up of the garden etc.

Equally there’s also a few people asking why did she wait X years to begin killing as it’s a stumbling block for them mentally between guilty/not guilty - it’s worth noting that the police have extended their investigation and it’s not due to finish for a few years so the first deaths to be prosecuted could very much be the tip of the iceberg.

I appreciate all sides of the argument at this stage and am reading each post and considering each point however I am very much in the mindset of guilty just now.

I don’t believe this many coincidences could occur together - the statistic probability of this has to be absolutely tiny, far tinier than the probability that she’s a wrongun.

I also think there’s credence to the fact that the death and collapse rates shifted when she changed shift, that staff were concerned about her enough to check on her and her behaviour around certain babies is questionable (being stood in the doorway saying their colour is off etc) - then upon full investigation by the police, so something her colleagues would have absolutely no knowledge of, she’s found to have searched for the exact families of the babies she’s being investigated for killing on significant dates such as anniversaries and Christmas, has pictures of two of the children, plus the note in her house saying “I killed them on purpose” - potentially more evidence from her home as well as the prosecution have stated there were multiple items of interest found.

Scapegoating, I’ve said a few times, makes absolutely no sense to me. There is no benefit whatsoever to the trust of having a member of their staff charged with murder. The financial and repetitional liability of this is astronomical in comparison to what it would have been had they just took the findings of an independent review and got on with fixing them.

There’s coincidence and then there’s the universe conspiring against you - I don’t buy it. I am however reading absolutely everything you guys are posting and willing to be proved wrong.

 

[CoffeeandCookies]

Judith Moritz isn’t in court today and Sky didn’t do updates yesterday so I’m guessing we just have Chester Standard/Leader today who I think are the same

 

[Lucyxxxx]

I know on previous threads a few people have said that motive isn’t really relevant on this but I do think it would add a whole load of context to why the CPS have decided to proceed with prosecuting her. I also think that they will introduce this and it will explain the digging up of the garden etc.

Equally there’s also a few people asking why did she wait X years to begin killing as it’s a stumbling block for them mentally between guilty/not guilty - it’s worth noting that the police have extended their investigation and it’s not due to finish for a few years so the first deaths to be prosecuted could very much be the tip of the iceberg.

I appreciate all sides of the argument at this stage and am reading each post and considering each point however I am very much in the mindset of guilty just now.

I don’t believe this many coincidences could occur together - the statistic probability of this has to be absolutely tiny, far tinier than the probability that she’s a wrongun.

I also think there’s credence to the fact that the death and collapse rates shifted when she changed shift, that staff were concerned about her enough to check on her and her behaviour around certain babies is questionable (being stood in the doorway saying their colour is off etc) - then upon full investigation by the police, so something her colleagues would have absolutely no knowledge of, she’s found to have searched for the exact families of the babies she’s being investigated for killing on significant dates such as anniversaries and Christmas, has pictures of two of the children, plus the note in her house saying “I killed them on purpose” - potentially more evidence from her home as well as the prosecution have stated there were multiple items of interest found.

Scapegoating, I’ve said a few times, makes absolutely no sense to me. There is no benefit whatsoever to the trust of having a member of their staff charged with murder. The financial and repetitional liability of this is astronomical in comparison to what it would have been had they just took the findings of an independent review and got on with fixing them.

There’s coincidence and then there’s the universe conspiring against you - I don’t buy it. I am however reading absolutely everything you guys are posting and willing to be proved wrong.

Although I feel differently to you I can appreciate this as a well thought out, well put post.

 

[jackolantern]

Although I feel differently to you I can appreciate this as a well thought out, well put post.

Genuine question, not baiting, I'm just honestly curious, for you and others who think it's plausible she is innocent and it is a cover-up - do you believe then that it was just pure coincidence she was present for all cases? And the NHS have just taken advantage of that and are using her as fall boy?

 

[friedeggontoast]

I believe there’s a mountain more evidence to come to light both within the trial and in the ongoing police investigation.

In terms of the question around why she decided to carry out her first murder 16 minutes into a shift, we don’t know what she had been doing before that day. She could’ve been harming babies on a low level since she became a nurse. She could’ve also been harming people outside of her work place. You don’t dig up someone’s garden without having a reasonable suspicion was up to no good.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Genuine question, not baiting, I'm just honestly curious, for you and others who think it's plausible she is innocent and it is a cover-up - do you believe then that it was just pure coincidence she was present for all cases? And the NHS have just taken advantage of that and are using her as fall boy?

I don't believe she's innocent or guilty at this point but if we're looking at how many cases she was present at, then to be fair we should also look at how often she was picking up bank or overtime to plug the staffing shortages. I've worked every single day in a week several times when short staffed, so of she's done this and others haven't, she's much more likely to be present.

It would also be helpful to know how many babies needed resus when she wasn't on shift. Some of the allegations seem much more likely than others to be murder.

 

[MrsPoison]

This is one of those trials where it feels so important that I want feel almost obliged to be a part of it for the sake of those children and their legacy, I don't want them to disappear into history, but at the same time it's so damaging to mental health that it's very difficult to hear. But I don't want to hide from it and I don't think it's morbid curiosity, I feel it's wanting justice. It's hard for the public, I can't even begin to imagine how those parents can get out of bed everyday for six months.

 

[gmf21]

I’m firmly in the unsure camp!

Just thinking about the Colin Norris case - he was convicted of murdering elderly patients in Leeds. His supporters have campaigned for him saying that the police made the evidence fit the hypothesis rather than draw conclusions from the evidence (I haven’t explained this very well, hopefully you know what I mean!)

Colin Norris: serial killer nurse conviction sent to court of appeal | Criminal Cases Review Commission | The Guardian

New evidence calls into doubt 2008 case of man known as ‘angel of death’ for four murders in Leeds

amp.theguardian.com

I think for the prosecution to successfully prove the charges against Letby they’ll be working from the “open mind” end of things? As in, the ONLY explanation is that she did something malicious to each baby with the intent of causing death.

It’s very complex and you’d assume some of the charges have “better” evidence than others. I wonder if it’ll be a majority verdict rather than unanimous and if she’ll have a mixed bunch of verdicts. I think that will be awful for families but the jury have to make the decisions they believe are right. I don’t envy anyone involved, it’s an awful case.