Lucy Letby Case #68

[Tilly Kister]

Good grief could they not have rehomed it and lied?
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Well that’s a little better but still sad - why would they need to know how old it was?

To pinpoint dates and locations on photos Brady took of Hindley holding the dog and smiling down at the gravesites of the children they had raped and murdered.

No one is more of a dog person than me. Tbh with you I prefer almost every dog I've ever met to the vast majority of people out there.

However I am also the sister of a murdered, missing brother and believe me, if there was even a faint hope that anaesthetising a dog to assess its age might lead to the location of my brother's body and an explanation of when and how he died, I'm afraid I'd be too invested in the latter to be terribly distraught at the process.

It was 60 years ago. There was no advanced testing available. Manchester police had never dealt with a child serial killer before let alone two as perverse, prolific and sadistic as Brady and Hindley. I'm sure mistakes were made but those beasts died in prison and the children of Hyde were safe to play and walk their own streets again. My heart is with all the parents of the Moors murders but especially is it Winnie Johnson. I know she died with her grief unresolved. I know the agony that caused her and the agony it caused Keith's siblings. I know how it rent her family. Because I've lived it and tbh with you I don't give a lot of thought to the dog. I would say it was a pity and that's about all the emotion I can muster. I imagine the families concerned here with Letby's crimes feel similarly about those fkn cats.

There is a hole in us in the shape of our lost loved ones and you've no conception how that gaping wound aches even decades later.
I hope you never know. I wish no one else ever had to know.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Not got anything to add but I can really relate to yours @Tofino’s posts about narc mother. I’m NC with mine. Sending love because it’s absolutely shite

Sorry to hear that @Peepynose 🩷🩷 NC was the only way I could get my sanity back tbh as extream as it sounds! Thanks for the love

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

Also, I firmly believe that there is zero chance that LL had an idyllic perfect childhood. She has been damaged in some way by her upbringing even if that’s not your typical physical or sexual abuse. Children raised by emotionally healthy parents with love and boundaries do not murder multiple babies that’s for sure.

I absolutely agree with this. There is NO way one becomes a murderer if there has been no 'trauma', surely.

 

[Opheliasweeds]

I absolutely agree with this. There is NO way one becomes a murderer if there has been no 'trauma', surely.

I think there‘s every chance that someone with a perfectly normal upbringing could have psychopathic tendencies. There’s no excuse or justification, she’s just a wrong ‘un.

 

[Tilly Kister]

I think there‘s every chance that someone with a perfectly normal upbringing could have psychopathic tendencies. There’s no excuse or justification, she’s just a wrong ‘un.

There are loads of psychopaths not out there killing babies. Banking, stockbroking, the legal profession, property development and corporate management are all rife with people who have strong psychopathic tendencies. One could argue that those jobs are damaging to many lives, harm the environment etc. of course. I believe they are. But it's not a serial killer is it?

All the research shows that psychopaths who are subject to forms of abuse in their childhoods are likely to act out in massively antisocial ways. Such as serial killing. Psychopaths who do not experience childhood trauma tend to go into the above mentioned fields and perform very well in them because their lack of conscience and empathy permits them to make ruthless decisions without being troubled by the ramifications.

 

[Marie958519]

Just a random thought of mine. If she had of pleaded guilty and shown some remorse would she have gotten the same sentence do you think?

 

[DianaBanana]

Just a random thought of mine. If she had of pleaded guilty and shown some remorse would she have gotten the same sentence do you think?

I think she definitely would have. Wayne Couzens pleaded guilty and still (rightly) got a whole life order. I think LL is comparable as she was in a position of trust, but worse in my opinion, as there were multiple victims who were babies.

 

[sebanna]

Wow. You know your cause is a load of old nonsense when disgraced antivax nurse, Kate Shemirani starts promoting it
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Norman Fenton is actually currently a lecturer at QMUL, which is ridiculous tbh. He has a large following on social media and constantly tweets out the most extreme conspiracy theories. Like, the stuff he believes is really quite ‘out there’ and I think it’s a pretty bad look for a Russell group uni to be employing someone like that…

I Don't understand the scapegoat theory surely there are too many people involved. A NICU baby's medical notes involve contributions from many different professionals and it becomes obvious if notes are changed. They also contain blood results which are carried out by a laboratory, some babies have been in different units increasing the number of people involved. The consultants probably had little to do with the actual care but more over saw it. When they went to the police the notes were scuntised by many experts and the defence were free to find their own experts. Yet Gill and friends believe all those different professionals who didn't know each other or Lucy have all worked together to set up an innocent nurse to protect the consultants, who they probably different know either, it doesn't really make sense.

 

[Marie958519]

I think she definitely would have. Wayne Couzens pleaded guilty and still (rightly) got a whole life order. I think LL is comparable as she was in a position of trust, but worse in my opinion, as there were multiple victims who were babies.

Oh yes I totally think it was a deserved sentence don't get me wrong. Just wondered if they'd have been any more lenient if she did.

Also don't get what the point is not admitting to it at this stage either if she's never getting out.

 

[sebanna]

Oh yes I totally think it was a deserved sentence don't get me wrong. Just wondered if they'd have been any more lenient if she did.

Also don't get what the point is not admitting to it at this stage either if she's never getting out.

She might appeal the sentence.

 

[didisaythatoutloudoops]

@nosycowmoo thank you for your account and I can only imagine what the experience as a whole for you was like. I really hope you were psychologically supported through the process, I was a witness to a stabbing in my younger years and testified in court. I remember feeling ok at the time, not knowing the victim personally, but the graphic evidence and long time spent in court got to me once it was all over. This case is on a whole other level. I hope they've got a good support process in place for you if you ever felt like it was getting too much.

 

[cosmicstar]

She might appeal the sentence.

Im on the fence about that. I think that it makes sense that she would given that she claims innocence. But at the same time I think she never provider a reasonable explanation as to what else couldve happened so if she appeals what would be her reasoning? I may completely wrong but I thought maybe you have to have to basis for the appeal. Or is that just in the States?

 

[Marie958519]

Im on the fence about that. I think that it makes sense that she would given that she claims innocence. But at the same time I think she never provider a reasonable explanation as to what else couldve happened so if she appeals what would be her reasoning? I may completely wrong but I thought maybe you have to have to basis for the appeal. Or is that just in the States?

This was my thinking too

 

[Tilly Kister]

Im on the fence about that. I think that it makes sense that she would given that she claims innocence. But at the same time I think she never provider a reasonable explanation as to what else couldve happened so if she appeals what would be her reasoning? I may completely wrong but I thought maybe you have to have to basis for the appeal. Or is that just in the States?

Everyone in the UK is entitled to appeal the sentence they're given. The risk for most is that on appeal a sentence can be increased rather than the decrease they were seeking. That's not really relevant here as there is no longer sentence possible. Appealing the verdict is a very different thing. Then you need to apply for a retrial, have extensive grounds for doing so and it's extremely rare for such an appeal to be granted.

 

[Opheliasweeds]

Apparently these are the grounds for appeal:

There are a number of circumstances we can look at to show that your conviction is unsafe – Poor representation at the trial; mistakes or misconduct of the trial judge; Jury Irregularities; bias; inconsistent verdicts; disclosure issues. The most common basis is fresh evidence.

 

[sebanna]

I just think the Letby's next move will be to appeal as that is really her only hope. I think they will be looking into it with a proper legal team they need a lot more than science on trial. I think the only way she will get out is if there is new medical evidence. I hope she doesn't for the families sake but you can see Lucy's mum chomping at a bit desperately looking to clear her name. Do you think the Letbys would need to pay for it themselves.

 

[sazzt]

It’s okay, there’s an “army of trolls marauding the internet endeavouring to silence Lucy’s supporters.” 🧌

Hahaha! They remind me of one of her supporters. This guy is from Twitter. He’s the one who’s deciphering her post it notes
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He has also faked deciphered another post it note

And has had the nerve to call Judge Matt Goss ‘unhinged’!!

 

[LittleMy]

Hahaha! They remind me of one of her supporters. This guy is from Twitter. He’s the one who’s deciphering her post it notes
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He has also faked deciphered another post it note

And has had the nerve to call Judge Matt Goss ‘unhinged’!!

His profile pic is that and Judge Goss is the unhinged one?!

 

[Treesy19]

I think there‘s every chance that someone with a perfectly normal upbringing could have psychopathic tendencies. There’s no excuse or justification, she’s just a wrong ‘un.

Agree with this. I know someone who had trauma in their 20s and then they killed at 30 and said it was because of what happened to them years before. Anger. So perhaps always had “tendencies” but nothing happened until the catalyst of trauma as an adult.
Bitchface could have had a regular childhood but then something has enraged her in her early 20s. I wish we knew. I know nothing but I think she was outrageously jealous of a lot of people and wanted to hurt them.
Her mother’s behaviour says a lot though.

 

[Marie958519]

I just think the Letby's next move will be to appeal as that is really her only hope. I think they will be looking into it with a proper legal team they need a lot more than science on trial. I think the only way she will get out is if there is new medical evidence. I hope she doesn't for the families sake but you can see Lucy's mum chomping at a bit desperately looking to clear her name. Do you think the Letbys would need to pay for it themselves.

I feel like she has nothing to lose so will probably try and appeal but I really don't believe it will go anywhere at all.

Slightly different note but the babies who had no verdict or NG does anyone know are they going to push for a retrial of those? My knowledge of how the legal system works is pretty minimal so not sure if that's possible or not likely for them.