Lucy Letby Case #6

[crumpets2]

Maybe the house was emptied for the sale pics, but it is very minimalistic. Especially considering the defence said she scribbles a lot of things down and keeps them. I wonder whereabouts the things were found because I imagine a table piled high with junk. I forgot about the colleagues names, my first thoughts was she was trying to get her story straight and work out who knows what etc.

What does everyone think of the statement bellow from the defence made about other bits of notes found in the house. I am not sure what to make of this.

"On some of the notes were phrases such as “Why/how has this happened – what process has led to this current situation. What allegations have been made and by who? Do they have written evidence to support their comments?"

Two minds with this one. Could be phrases she wrote to try answer and convince herself she is innocent or won’t get caught. Or advice/ questions from someone advising her from a union perhaps? They sound quite official questions.
If this makes any sense!

 

[stardust1]

Two minds with this one. Could be phrases she wrote to try answer and convince herself she is innocent or won’t get caught. Or advice/ questions from someone advising her from a union perhaps? They sound quite official questions.
If this makes any sense!

I know exactly what you mean that one completely confused me. They do sound like professional questions but was she seeking advice cause she knew she was about to be caught out

 

[Tofino]

What are the three possible explanations?
Would they keep long acting insulin on a NICU?

i think it’s these explanations from Prof Hindmarsh

1. the same bag was transferred over the line
2. The replacement stock bag was contaminated
3. Some part of the giving set was contaminated by insulin from first bag and continued to flow through even with new non-contaminated bag

but it sounds like 1 and 2 are going to be ruled out because the first bag wasn’t transferred to the new line, and the problems with the baby started before the second bag was put in place.

I don’t recall if they said where bag 2 came from because I do remember they said there were stock bags in the fridge. So I suppose it’s possible both bags could have been contaminated separately but that hasn’t been mentioned so maybe they ruled that out somehow.

 

[stardust1]

Does anyone know why she was going through a grievance?

 

[avabella]

Looking at the house pictures again and I think they're pictures from the previous sale.

 

[crumpets2]

I know exactly what you mean that one completely confused me. They do sound like professional questions but was she seeking advice cause she knew she was about to be caught out

Possibly . Union, therapist or something hmm.

 

[Tofino]

Maybe the house was emptied for the sale pics, but it is very minimalistic. Especially considering the defence said she scribbles a lot of things down and keeps them. I wonder whereabouts the things were found because I imagine a table piled high with junk. I forgot about the colleagues names, my first thoughts was she was trying to get her story straight and work out who knows what etc.

What does everyone think of the statement bellow from the defence made about other bits of notes found in the house. I am not sure what to make of this.

"On some of the notes were phrases such as “Why/how has this happened – what process has led to this current situation. What allegations have been made and by who? Do they have written evidence to support their comments?"

I think that statement could be taken either way tbh. If you were innocent you might be trying to figure it all out. If you were guilty you might be trying to figure out how they know if you thought you have covered yourself.

i find the ‘do they have written evidence’ an odd thing to say if you were innocent though. Why would you think they may have evidence if you haven’t done anything?

 

[French toast]

I just looked at the notes written by LL again and although the defence are stating "I killed them on purpose" amounts to anguish and not admission, I really can't see how this could be interpreted as anything other than an unambiguous confession to murder.

It's not "I accidently killed them" or "I made mistakes and they died" or "they're saying I killed them on purpose" or any of the millions of other permutations that could be used in order to desparatly protest your innocence.

She is having a moment of clarity and she's anguished because she's recognising what she has done and stating it in very clear terms to herself. The point to prove for murder is killing another with intent, she offers it up with the words "on purpose". They are plain, clear and unequivocal words which no amount of linguistic gymnastics can explain.

Whatever spin the defence try to put on it, there is no way an innocent person, however anguished would write those words if they hasn't killed those babies "on purpose".

 

[crumpets2]

Does anyone know why she was going through a grievance?

I was wondering if this was referring to the investigations against her or was she initiating a grievance.

 

[Tofino]

Oh I suppose if she was on a call with someone for employment/legal advice I can see they might prompt that question. But I would expect her to be able to explain that easily so will be interesting to see how she answers it in police interview.

 

[avabella]

Yes I definitely think they're from the sale when Lucy bought it.

Her house was ransacked and searched thoroughly by the police. No one is going to set up some old fashioned desktop computer in the living room to stage it for sale. I'm convinced that's the previous sale pics.

 

[bringingdownthebs]

I’m thinking about those families and little lives lost tonight more than ever.

me too. Just messaged my best friend whose baby was born at 30 weeks and weighed 1lbs 11oz. The NICU nurses were her angels. This case and the coverage of it is tortuous for her as it is… and thankfully her little girl had the best care possible and is a happy, healthy, thriving 4 year old now. Cannot even begin to imagine what the parents of these poor innocent little babies went through and are still going through every day of their lives. It’s utterly heartbreaking.

 

[stardust1]

@crumpets2 @Tofino what type of things could she be going through a grievance for if you take away the accusations?

 

[bringingdownthebs]

Yes I definitely think they're from the sale when Lucy bought it.

Her house was ransacked and searched thoroughly by the police. No one is going to set up some old fashioned desktop computer in the living room to stage it for sale. I'm convinced that's the previous sale pics.

yeah I don’t think they’re from the most recent sale either.

@crumpets2 @Tofino what type of things could she be going through a grievance for if you take away the accusations?

Grievance against her or grievance she’d put in?

 

[stardust1]

yeah I don’t think they’re from the most recent sale either.



Grievance against her or grievance she’d put in?

I think I read it was against her but someone can correct me if I am wrong

 

[Haveyouanywool]

A low blood sugar reading wouldn’t result in a TPN change. The patient would have TPN bloods done every day to check they were receiving the correct electrolyte’s, glucose etc. That’s why it has to be prescribed each day and made up by pharmacy.

A low blood sugar would be corrected by giving a glucose bolus. If for any reason they needed to stop the TPN infusion then the child would be put on IV fluids as no further TPN would be available for that child. Well, not until pharmacy had made a new bag up. If the medical team had concerns about the TPN then the bag should have been sent back to pharmacy and an incident report filled out. Hope that kinda makes sense.

Thanks for the explanation. I’m getting more than a bit confused with all the differing ideas about the TPN. I thought they were made individually as per babies requirements.
So checking the bags might not be accurate?
What about the babies insulin levels? Would they be checked?

 

[stardust1]

Does anyone think some of the words Ben uses to defend her are a bit odd sometimes? Such as this:

Myers pointing to Letby sitting in the dock, told jurors: “It is important to be careful that blame is not heaped on that woman when there may be others who have made mistakes or a system which has failed.”

Like using ‘There may be others’ to me doesn’t sound very confident, surely after Lucy admitting the insulin cannot be an accident and if Lucy is innocent then you would know there is others to blame? Are they maybe exploring the route that she did In fact kill a few but not as many as they want her charged for?

 

[OH.FFS]

Does anyone think some of the words Ben uses to defend her are a bit odd sometimes? Such as this:

Myers pointing to Letby sitting in the dock, told jurors: “It is important to be careful that blame is not heaped on that woman when there may be others who have made mistakes or a system which has failed.”

Like using ‘There may be others’ to me doesn’t sound very confident, surely after Lucy admitting the insulin cannot be an accident and if Lucy is innocent then you would know there is others to blame? Are they maybe exploring the route that she did In fact kill a few but not as many as they want her charged for?

I think these words imply he feels these babies deaths weren’t by normal or naturally expected routes and so he’s shifting ‘guilt’ to not only LL but others as well.

 

[Tofino]

@crumpets2 @Tofino what type of things could she be going through a grievance for if you take away the accusations?

I’m thinking it was probably grievances around the time of moving her to admin duties?
But I suppose it depends what discussions they had with her when they did that. I can’t imagine the accused her outright of murder, that would be for the police. It might have been capability related if they didn’t suspect intentional harm at that point. I’m not in health care but I’ve had capability meetings with a staff member in the past. I don’t recall if they were technically classed as grievances as I’m not an HR person. Or whether it’s a colleague that has to raise a grievance against you - maybe one of the consultants did if they suspected something?

If it’s her that’s raised a grievance it’s possible she’s then raised one against managers if she thought she was being treated unfairly.

I think some people think she possibly raised a grievance about management or working conditions and is now being made a scapegoat. But I’m not a fan of the scapegoat theory at all.

i’m keen to hear about this though, I’m just speculating really.

 

[Weebles Wobble]

I would've thought so...my mum 'got out of it' as she has dyslexia and needs help with reading/writing. She literally made herself sick with worry. We replied asking for her to be excused. They didn't request any medical evidence although it was a good few years back. I think they can and most often will ask for proof of disability though.

My son was excused recently for the same reason. I helped him to do the paperwork (I think it was online). It asked what help would he require so I gave a detailed reply of the one to one assistance he'd need (which would be impractical). He was excused without requiring proof, which we were glad about as we weren't sure what evidence we could give them. With conditions such as ADHD there would be medical records of course.