Lucy Letby Case #6

[bringingdownthebs]

I’m thinking it was probably grievances around the time of moving her to admin duties?
But I suppose it depends what discussions they had with her when they did that. I can’t imagine the accused her outright of murder, that would be for the police. It might have been capability related if they didn’t suspect intentional harm at that point. I’m not in health care but I’ve had capability meetings with a staff member in the past. I don’t recall if they were technically classed as grievances as I’m not an HR person. Or whether it’s a colleague that has to raise a grievance against you - maybe one of the consultants did if they suspected something?

If it’s her that’s raised a grievance it’s possible she’s then raised one against managers if she thought she was being treated unfairly.

I think some people think she possibly raised a grievance about management or working conditions and is now being made a scapegoat. But I’m not a fan of the scapegoat theory at all.

i’m keen to hear about this though, I’m just speculating really.

in the NHS the grievance procedure/policy is very clear cut and has to be followed in a very specific way. I am curious as to whether it was her who raised a grievance against management or the other way round as I don’t feel that was made clear during the statement in court.

 

[crumpets2]

I’m thinking it was probably grievances around the time of moving her to admin duties?
But I suppose it depends what discussions they had with her when they did that. I can’t imagine the accused her outright of murder, that would be for the police. It might have been capability related if they didn’t suspect intentional harm at that point. I’m not in health care but I’ve had capability meetings with a staff member in the past. I don’t recall if they were technically classed as grievances as I’m not an HR person. Or whether it’s a colleague that has to raise a grievance against you - maybe one of the consultants did if they suspected something?

If it’s her that’s raised a grievance it’s possible she’s then raised one against managers if she thought she was being treated unfairly.

I think some people think she possibly raised a grievance about management or working conditions and is now being made a scapegoat. But I’m not a fan of the scapegoat theory at all.

i’m keen to hear about this though, I’m just speculating really.

I agree. Certainly could be practice related which coincided with admin duties. If it’s something she’s put forward I feel defence would be all over it with the scapegoat theory, but having said that, it has only been a week.

 

[Tofino]

in the NHS the grievance procedure/policy is very clear cut and has to be followed in a very specific way. I am curious as to whether it was her who raised a grievance against management or the other way round as I don’t feel that was made clear during the statement in court.

no it definitely wasn’t clear from the reporting who had raised a grievance against who. I think it just said she was going through a grievance with the nhs at the time.

 

[crumpets2]

Can anyone remember what context it was said in?

 

[Tofino]

 

[crumpets2]

Ok so it’s after the note so surely is referencing the investigations against her?

 

[Emmelina Ball]

Can anyone remember what context it was said in?

 

[stardust1]

I’m just thinking would she have had the balls to make the grievance if she knew she was guilty? Would it not have been better to do as she was told and not kick up a fuss

 

[Tofino]

I’ve just checked sky news and Judith Moritz and neither of them mention the grievance.

 

[stardust1]

@Emmelina Ball screenshot makes me read it like she made the grievance I’m wondering if she was upset she went onto admin dutys and didn’t think it was fair. But that would be a bit crazy if she knew she was guilty

 

[Tofino]

Ok so it’s after the note so surely is referencing the investigations against her?

yes most likely. Although as it was nhs investigations I doubt they would have been investigating her for murder? Probably her competency. So it makes it harder to believe that she would write ‘I killed them on purpose’ innocently if at the time she wrote it she was just going through nhs procedures.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

@Emmelina Ball screenshot makes me read it like she made the grievance I’m wondering if she was upset she went onto admin dutys and didn’t think it was fair. But that would be a bit crazy if she knew she was guilty

I’m sort of thinking they raised a grievance with her and placed her on admin duties while they investigated and her hearing the concerns has sent her into a meltdown - innocent or guilty that would send shockwaves through you. Because how else would they just say right lucy were really short staffed in the nicu but we’re gonna set you up in admin today! Wouldn’t really make sense.

 

[Tofino]

@Emmelina Ball screenshot makes me read it like she made the grievance I’m wondering if she was upset she went onto admin dutys and didn’t think it was fair. But that would be a bit crazy if she knew she was guilty

wouldnt it be more likely to say ‘against’ the nhs trust if it was her raising a grievance? I kind of feel like he’s being careful with his words for his opening statement. ‘With’ sounds more like a joint co-operative process. I feel like he’s trying to hide during opening that it was their grievance against her.
It could also just be the reporting!

 

[crumpets2]

I’m sort of thinking they raised a grievance with her and placed her on admin duties while they investigated and her hearing the concerns has sent her into a meltdown - innocent or guilty that would send shockwaves through you. Because how else would they just say right lucy were really short staffed in the nicu but we’re gonna set you up in admin today! Wouldn’t really make sense.

I agree. It says she knew what they were saying about her so in one way or another she’d have known what the grievance was for.

 

[Tofino]

View attachment 1653525

Where was this from by the way, was it live reporting or an article? It seems like another good source.

 

[stardust1]

wouldnt it be more likely to say ‘against’ the nhs trust if it was her raising a grievance? I kind of feel like he’s being careful with his words for his opening statement. ‘With’ sounds more like a joint co-operative process. I feel like he’s trying to hide during opening that it was their grievance against her.
It could also just be the reporting!

No you’re right tbh as I’ve checked a few reports and non clarify which way round it is so I don’t think it has specifically been said. It wouldn’t exactly look good for Ben to say it was against LL so actually now you’ve said it I see your point because it would have looked good for LL if she made it against the NHS trust

 

[Emmelina Ball]

Where was this from by the way, was it live reporting or an article? It seems like another good source.

The Chester Standard. I think they do the live reporting too but this was more of an article summing it all up.

Revealed: The 'I AM EVIL' handwritten note by Lucy Letby found at her Chester home

THIS is the note written by alleged killer nurse Lucy Letby, found at her Chester home by police at the time of her July 2018 arrest.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Lht30]

I just looked at the notes written by LL again and although the defence are stating "I killed them on purpose" amounts to anguish and not admission, I really can't see how this could be interpreted as anything other than an unambiguous confession to murder.

It's not "I accidently killed them" or "I made mistakes and they died" or "they're saying I killed them on purpose" or any of the millions of other permutations that could be used in order to desparatly protest your innocence.

She is having a moment of clarity and she's anguished because she's recognising what she has done and stating it in very clear terms to herself. The point to prove for murder is killing another with intent, she offers it up with the words "on purpose". They are plain, clear and unequivocal words which no amount of linguistic gymnastics can explain.

Whatever spin the defence try to put on it, there is no way an innocent person, however anguished would write those words if they hasn't killed those babies "on purpose".

Killed what on purpose though? She could be talking about her plants for all we know from that note.

 

[Tofino]

The Chester Standard. I think they do the live reporting too but this was more of an article summing it all up.

Revealed: The 'I AM EVIL' handwritten note by Lucy Letby found at her Chester home

THIS is the note written by alleged killer nurse Lucy Letby, found at her Chester home by police at the time of her July 2018 arrest.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

If Mark Dowling is going to be adding extra titbits in his articles that are not in his live reporting then he’s given me more work to do for the wiki

Killed what on purpose though? She could be talking about her plants for all we know from that note.

oh give over! Even the defence have said she wrote it in anguish about the allegations. Not her plants!

 

[candyland_]

did she say what she did with them? The consensus on here is that you would take them back for confidential waste asap. Not keep hold of them which is what Lucy appears to have done.

No.. She just said that it’s common to end up taking them home and that they should go in the waste but she didn’t see any real issues with a nurse having some at home.