Lucy Letby Case #6

[Treesy19]

Re the time frames:

OldHereford times article, did state they were looking at other deaths and collapses. Guess not enough to arrest about those.

 

[Tofino]

Re the time frames:

OldHereford times article, did state they were looking at other deaths and collapses. Guess not enough to arrest about those.

View attachment 1658174

Well that doesn’t make sense because there were ‘only’ 13 deaths for the whole of 2015 and 2016 combined

 

[Emmelina Ball]

Re the time frames:

OldHereford times article, did state they were looking at other deaths and collapses. Guess not enough to arrest about those.

View attachment 1658174

So 17 deaths and Lucy was present for all of them?! (According to some posts here I can’t find anything that says Lucy was present at all 17 deaths for the period) as far as I can tell it’s only been released about the babies on the charges. The highest number of deaths she was charged for (I think) was 10 murders? But that dropped to 7? That still seems high for 7 or 10 deaths how many are usually expected I thought it was around 3 but can’t remember where I read 3.

Well that doesn’t make sense because there were ‘only’ 13 deaths for the whole of 2015 and 2016 combined

Lots of different reports this one says 15 deaths. As if we weren’t confused enough already!

Police investigating baby deaths at Countess of Chester hospital | UK news | The Guardian

Cheshire police will look at deaths of 15 babies and six non-fatal incidents between 2015 and 2016 after trust contacted them

amp.theguardian.com

 

[I’mThankyou_]

Re the time frames:

OldHereford times article, did state they were looking at other deaths and collapses. Guess not enough to arrest about those.

View attachment 1658174

I mentioned on an older thread, a lady on a group I'm in, was contacted about her baby who had a collapse at COCH in that time frame but nothing ever came of it.
So they definitely think they're are more and I expect they are really pushing to find further links.

 

[avabella]

I mentioned on an older thread, a lady on a group I'm in, was contacted about her baby who had a collapse at COCH in that time frame but nothing ever came of it.
So they definitely think they're are more and I expect they are really pushing to find further links.

It would be really interesting to know (although I'm not sure if it's allowed ethically/legally?) the circumstances around the other babies collapses (if they happened when she wasn't on shift?)

 

[I’mThankyou_]

It would be really interesting to know (although I'm not sure if it's allowed ethically/legally?) the circumstances around the other babies collapses (if they happened when she wasn't on shift?)

I've just found her post again on Facebook, in it she states she didn't even know her baby had a collapse until the police rang her. This was posted July 2017.

 

[Tofino]

So 17 deaths and Lucy was present for all of them?! (According to some posts here I can’t find anything that says Lucy was present at all 17 deaths for the period) as far as I can tell it’s only been released about the babies on the charges. The highest number of deaths she was charged for (I think) was 10 murders? But that dropped to 7? That still seems high for 7 or 10 deaths how many are usually expected I thought it was around 3 but can’t remember where I read 3.


Lots of different reports this one says 15 deaths. As if we weren’t confused enough already!

Police investigating baby deaths at Countess of Chester hospital | UK news | The Guardian

Cheshire police will look at deaths of 15 babies and six non-fatal incidents between 2015 and 2016 after trust contacted them

amp.theguardian.com

well the table showing 8 in 2015 and 5 in 2016 has come from a FOI request direct to COCH. So that should be the accurate one. But who knows

the media might have misunderstood or just worded it badly. Because there are at least 17 babies they have investigated for murder and attempted murder, but not all 17 died.

 

[Wackie Jeaver]

I think there would be much easier ways to scapegoat someone than having them up on a murder trial.

Yes, COCH might have been a bit rubbish in lots of ways, but like many others on here I don't think most NICU nurses go into it because they want to murder babies. In fact, I would imagine that each and any death would have significant impact on most.

Sorry, I really don't buy the scapegoat theory.

 

[MmmB777]

Re the time frames:

OldHereford times article, did state they were looking at other deaths and collapses. Guess not enough to arrest about those.

View attachment 1658174

Could it potentially be they were transferred and therefore the deaths would be recorded as being at other hospitals but they’re investigating LL as the cause. I think the deaths occurring at Chester will be easier to prove and potentially other babies went on to die elsewhere or survived her attempts.

 

[Tangerine Cat]

With regards to new experts being more credible - I think I’m inclined to believe the people who did the original post mortems were probably unconsciously biased because the babies never left the hospital so I don’t think suspicious circumstances would have even entered their head. Some of the PM outcomes were unexplained. You might say the new experts might have an unconscious bias but there are at least 5 of them and if they all agree it’s going to be really hard to dispute their evidence. I wonder if the pathologists who did the original post mortems will be witnesses and if they have a change of view.

But a pathologist wouldn’t risk their credibility to come forward and admit to that. Any death that comes to them could be suspicious….

besides, were the post mortems done at the hospital, I know if you die at the pilgrim hospital in Boston your PM could be done at nottingham for instance as my aunts was, we were told they didn’t have enough pathologists locally anymore.

 

[avabella]

Could it potentially be they were transferred and therefore the deaths would be recorded as being at other hospitals but they’re investigating LL as the cause. I think the deaths occurring at Chester will be easier to prove and potentially other babies went on to die elsewhere or survived her attempts.

I'm not sure if I'm confusing myself. I am just wondering out loud what the circumstances were that then disregarded any deaths as not being suspicious (even in retrospect).

 

[Emmelina Ball]

I've just found her post again on Facebook, in it she states she didn't even know her baby had a collapse until the police rang her. This was posted July 2017.

Wow. That’s so bad. The families of babies at this unit were failed so badly by so many professionals by the sounds of things, it’s heart breaking.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Could it potentially be they were transferred and therefore the deaths would be recorded as being at other hospitals but they’re investigating LL as the cause. I think the deaths occurring at Chester will be easier to prove and potentially other babies went on to die elsewhere or survived her attempts.

The case of the baby how was transferred to Arrow Parke and died there was dropped.

 

[Windowtothewall]

Can someone clarify for me - as I am wondering if I have potentially missed a massive piece of the puzzle or if this hasn't come to light yet.

Were there other babies who sadly died in the neonatal unit when LL *wasn't* on shift, or was she present/on shift for every single baby that died there?

There were 13 deaths I think on the unit that year, 10 of which were unexplained. She was attending to 8 of them (1 charge was dropped as not enough evidence, hence just 7 murder charges). According to the RCPHC report.

There were between 25-30 nurses and 15-20 nursery unit nurses in that part of the hospital, working day/night shifts. More would work on the day than the night shifts, typically. [according to opening statements]

So for one nurse out of 20ish being present for 8 of the 10 unexplained deaths is a pretty big co-incidence. And I can see why they were suspicious of her.

 

[abelleza]

See Lucy doesn't keep a record of something - suspicious.
Someone else doesn't record something Lucy says she said - must not have happened.

It just feels to me things are being forced to fit abit. Is it really a coincidence that stillbirths were sky high that same year she's alleged to have murdered the babies? Why are the new experts more credible then the ones who initially stated causes of death to be things like pneumonia? If the prosecution are calling that note a confession, what else are they going over the top about? One baby it is said she never had any contact with the IV bag shes meant to have poisoned?? Prosecution claim she was getting away with these murders via all these different means and then turned around and decided she would physically attack a baby, to what keep under the radar? They claim its not possible its a coincidence she was there at all these deaths and collapses but then we have a baby she wasn't even present for 'Oh she must of done something beforehand then'. Honestly not arguing but do things like this not make anyones eyebrows raise just a little?

Honestly this is exactly. And the thing is, THIS is what is going to hurt the prosecutions case if they don’t start being more specific and giving proper information explanations for all these anomalies. We’ve obviously got a long way to go with this trial so I only hope all these things get ironed out, if they don’t I know for a fact that I couldn’t in good conscience find her guilty, even if I suspected that she’d actually done it.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

There were 13 deaths I think on the unit that year, 10 of which were unexplained. She was attending to 8 of them (1 charge was dropped as not enough evidence, hence just 7 murder charges). According to the RCPHC report.

There were between 25-30 nurses and 15-20 nursery unit nurses in that part of the hospital, working day/night shifts. More would work on the day than the night shifts, typically. [according to opening statements]

So for one nurse out of 20ish being present for 8 of the 10 unexplained deaths is a pretty big co-incidence. And I can see why they were suspicious of her.

Thank you. Is there a link to the RCPHC report?

 

[avabella]

There were 13 deaths I think on the unit that year, 10 of which were unexplained. She was attending to 8 of them (1 charge was dropped as not enough evidence, hence just 7 murder charges). According to the RCPHC report.

There were between 25-30 nurses and 15-20 nursery unit nurses in that part of the hospital, working day/night shifts. More would work on the day than the night shifts, typically. [according to opening statements]

So for one nurse out of 20ish being present for 8 of the 10 unexplained deaths is a pretty big co-incidence. And I can see why they were suspicious of her.

Thank you. I've definitely seen a monthly breakdown but can't seem to find it now. Things move so quickly and I can't remember where it was posted.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Honestly this is exactly. And the thing is, THIS is what is going to hurt the prosecutions case if they don’t start being more specific and giving proper information explanations for all these anomalies. We’ve obviously got a long way to go with this trial so I only hope all these things get ironed out, if they don’t I know for a fact that I couldn’t in good conscience find her guilty, even if I suspected that she’d actually done it.

We’ve just started week 2 of a 6 month trial.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

Thank you. Is there a link to the RCPHC report?

This is the RCPCH report

https://pdf4pro.com/cdn/www-coch-nhs-uk-7537c.pdf

 

[Windowtothewall]

Thank you. I've definitely seen a monthly breakdown but can't seem to find it now. Things move so quickly and I can't remember where it was posted.

Page 16 and 20 of this report are helpful for the numbers and also explanation of what is an 'unexplained' death.