Completely understandable that people need explanations and reasons and obviously we have a long way to go in the trial so who knows what will materialise, what we will hear about her past. However, sadly I think in some cases, there is no explanation. I think some people are just evil.
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Yeah and politely I’m trying to say that I can’t see why or how people think that’s the case here? Also, I’m guessing the type of cover up or blame pinning that’s going on when people are saying ‘it happens’… are rarely accusing an individual of mass murder? So while we can say scapegoating happens it’s really bonkers to me to think people have done that in this case. I’m really not bothered how many people feel they have been aggrieved in their place of work about things that weren’t really their fault
I’m sure all of us have felt like that. It’s just not the same.
i absolutely agree with this. i understand why people want explanations or want a “reason” but the vast majority of murder convictions will pass without that clear “why did you do it?” question ever being answered. i mean, psychologists have been debating it for (probably) centuries at this point. some people are just evil, or are at least capable of committing evil acts.
There was a text message read in court yesterday about Lucy splitting her shift. It could explain her being there more often, it seems that she was called in a lot. There was also mention of her being asked to do extra shifts.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 18
THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more while working as a Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal…
Today's link
If a unit is running at a 20% shortfall then there'd be bank or overtime shifts out every day, a young nurse who loves her job and has no kids would pick up more of them so be around a lot more but also be more at risk of burnout.
The idea that the NHS, police and other organisations have banded together to frame an innocent nurse to cover up failings on a ward is ridiculous. This is real life not Line of Duty.
They had no choice but to involve police they needed to find out the cause of the deaths. Of course it’s not comparable to a police investigation - nor should it or is it intended to be. They are two completely separate bodies designed to do different things. It’s out of the remit of the RCPCH to investigate criminal activity - if they suspect any it would be passed to police who are there to investigate criminals.
Oops… I went to bed yesterday afternoon with a migraine and woke up today with over 30 pages to catch up on. I’m still feeling very delicate so I think I’ll just skip them out. However, if I ask on things that I’ve already been covered forgive me.
That said, I’ll probably very quiet today.
That said, I’ll probably very quiet today.
This scapegoat thing is honestly ridiculous. This isn't a small accusation, it would be throwing a young woman under the bus for mass murder of babies, like, come on?! The NHS has it flaws but how sadistic do you think they are? It blows my mind people think the extent of what it would take and how many people would need to be involved is more likely than one, evil woman. They do exist you know.
Logically, either way the NHS looks bad here, they've either had gross negligence that has resulted in the accidental death of many babies or they've been SO grossly negligent that they've enabled a nurse to murder not one, but many babies. Which looks worse? Clearly the latter. Why the duck would they pick pushing that narrative?
I stand by if this were a man, you'd struggle to find enough people to count on just one hand who would protest his innocence.
Logically, either way the NHS looks bad here, they've either had gross negligence that has resulted in the accidental death of many babies or they've been SO grossly negligent that they've enabled a nurse to murder not one, but many babies. Which looks worse? Clearly the latter. Why the duck would they pick pushing that narrative?
I stand by if this were a man, you'd struggle to find enough people to count on just one hand who would protest his innocence.
Honestly I feel like you can't have a discussion on this thread at the moment.
I've never questioned why someone feels she's guilty, I can completely see why they feel that way.
I've never belittled someone who thinks she's innocent, which has happened more times then I can count at this point.
I am firmly in the I don't bleeping know camp, I will question the prosecution, I will question the defence.
But, on this thread, unless a question is angled firmly to her guilt, you're inviting to get shot down.
All the shouts of all the evidence, everything we've heard...
Anyone offers another explanation gets reminded we are only beginning the second week.
Yet if your brandishing a pitch fork, it's absolutely acceptable to have her set in stone guilty after one week.
Unless you can actually have a conversation, not an am RIGHT and let me TELL you why I am.
I've never questioned why someone feels she's guilty, I can completely see why they feel that way.
I've never belittled someone who thinks she's innocent, which has happened more times then I can count at this point.
I am firmly in the I don't bleeping know camp, I will question the prosecution, I will question the defence.
But, on this thread, unless a question is angled firmly to her guilt, you're inviting to get shot down.
All the shouts of all the evidence, everything we've heard...
Anyone offers another explanation gets reminded we are only beginning the second week.
Yet if your brandishing a pitch fork, it's absolutely acceptable to have her set in stone guilty after one week.
Unless you can actually have a conversation, not an am RIGHT and let me TELL you why I am.
Is anyone here actually pushing ‘the scapegoat theory’ on here at this point?
Bc it’s starting to feel like people are just writing these posts, absolutely furious at all of those who supposedly subscribe to this scapegoat theory, yet no one on here is even arguing in favour of it 
…
Bc it’s starting to feel like people are just writing these posts, absolutely furious at all of those who supposedly subscribe to this scapegoat theory, yet no one on here is even arguing in favour of it …Also, I’d just like to add that believing LL is not guilty ≠ believing in the scapegoat theory either
The irony is we keep getting moaned at for protesting her guilt, by the same people who protest her innocence. It works both ways. Both sides are passionate and you should be able to explain/defend your reasoning without whinging and hurt feelings. It will be pretty tedious conversation if we can't question and try to understand each others way of thinking. Does every comment have to be prefaced with something sickly sweet so people don't get their backs up? I don't care if you think she's innocent, I just won't pretend to agree that the NHS is that level of depraved to frame someone for mass baby murder. Time will tell either way.
Definitely also in the I don't know camp. I'm open to all evidence, I think both sides have decent arguments and I don't think we'll ever know for sure if she did all she's been accused of, some sound more likely to be murder than others and whatever verdict is reached won't necessarily be the right one.
I know people are shooting down the scapegoat theory but some wards are like that, and people sharing their experiences aren't trying to liken it to a serial killer
they're just saying how they've seen someone be a scapegoat in the NHS before - I've seen it happen in allegations of abuse, medication errors and patient deaths.
I know people are shooting down the scapegoat theory but some wards are like that, and people sharing their experiences aren't trying to liken it to a serial killer
they're just saying how they've seen someone be a scapegoat in the NHS before - I've seen it happen in allegations of abuse, medication errors and patient deaths.There's a lot we don't know yet we have only heard the very start of one side of the story, I think it makes a healthy debate when people have different opinions. I'm not sure what to think because I don't know enoughYeah and politely I’m trying to say that I can’t see why or how people think that’s the case here? Also, I’m guessing the type of cover up or blame pinning that’s going on when people are saying ‘it happens’… are rarely accusing an individual of mass murder? So while we can say scapegoating happens it’s really bonkers to me to think people have done that in this case. I’m really not bothered how many people feel they have been aggrieved in their place of work about things that weren’t really their fault
But a lot of the time “the other explanations” are posed as questions but if you answer it using things we’ve already heard so far then you’re being mean. Or they are posed of statements of fact that I think people should be able to say hmm is that the case? It’s not being mean. From where I’m sitting, a lot of people that want to cast doubt are using things that we don’t know rather than things that we do know. Obviously a bit of that will go on. But if somebody says “what if xyz” then they can expect answers. And if somebody says “it happens” then I would just love to know how it has happened here and what that we’ve heard so far points to it
I’m not being hurtful or arrogant by asking that. I really don’t mind if after I’ve said something, people use examples from the case and points that we’ve heard so far to show me otherwise. I also don’t think they’re personally attacking me - even when they say oh well guilty as charged then no point in a trial. Even though it’s provocative. Sometimes I think the wilful ignorance is simply to be provocative and get people biting anyways. It’s not one camp being worse than the other anyhoo.Just thinking about the urges and LL apparently not doing anything up the when the first charges were levied in 2015.
I guess we don't know if she was doing smaller, lower level stuff over the years which just escalated over time. She could have been doing minor things to inflict pain, or moving probes and putting them back quickly before babies deteriorated enough o collapse and perhaps built up some courage and urges to take it further.
Or she could just be completely innocent. Time and evidence will tell I guess.
But i do think that if she is guilty, then it is more likely she was doing lower level, undetectable stuff which didn't lead to crashes initially and slowly built up to the worse things, rather than just jumping strsight to murder/attempted murder. Similar to Wayne Couzens flashing etc in the earlier days.
Exactly this. Noone is doubting scapegoating happens, but likening a personal experience to a trial of this scale really isn't comparable.But a lot of the time “the other explanations” are posed as questions but if you answer it using things we’ve already heard so far then you’re being mean. Or they are posed of statements of fact that I think people should be able to say hmm is that the case? It’s not being mean. From where I’m sitting, a lot of people that want to cast doubt are using things that we don’t know rather than things that we do know. Obviously a bit of that will go on. But if somebody says “what if xyz” then they can expect answers. And if somebody says “it happens” then I would just love to know how it has happened here and what that we’ve heard so far points to it
I think the problem is, people discussing theories about what happened or certain pieces of evidence is often being misinterpreted by others as them actually concretely believing in that particular theory, which is usually not even the case.Isn’t the whole point of the thread to discuss our varying views and thoughts?Aside from the odd spat I think everyone’s been very respectful and polite!
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