Lucy Letby Case #6

[Wackie Jeaver]

I'm finding the medical ins and outs, and the talk about NHS culture, quite difficult to follow tbh.

BUT, given the dedicated nature of the teams looking after these poorly babies, and the hours and effort they put in, it seems to me to be quite easy to think that they would thing absolutely the best of their colleagues, rather than the possibility that someone you work with and assume you know well is actually a murderer?

I mean, that would be a headfuck even if you worked in an office pushing beans, let alone a life and death environment.

 

[Borntorun]

Interesting point you make about wether the nurses who were around feel any guilt. I wonder if any still work on that ward. I guess a lot of it is actually hindsight which would be quite hard to live with even more so if she is found guilty. I’d also imagine I would feel quite worried about dragging my self into all this mess.

I think they’ll feel guilty regardless: I think it’s part of being a healthcare professional. I can think of times I’ve worked where an adverse event has occurred, and even where I’m 100% sure I wasn’t at fault, I’ve still replayed the event in my head a thousand times, analysed if there was anything I could have done differently.

ETA I also just feel guilty because I get to go home to my live children after a shift doing bereavement work. It’s hard to explain unless it’s a job you have experience of

 

[MmmB777]

The bag could have been injected into and left for an unsuspecting nurse to change over to. (Look at stepping hill) You could also see that as a way for Lucy to get people off her back.

My opinion is that she really shifted later on to playing with being clever in shifting suspicion from when she was around. She began falsely time stamping things etc.

 

[stardust1]

With the psych evaluation, I meant more in terms of if they will reveal anything about her state of mind or conditions she may have suffered/be suffering from. As you say, she's clearly been assessed as fit to stand trial and has pleaded innocent rather than diminished responsibility. I'm actually wondering if her defence will be that she was overworked due to staffing levels, unwell with anxiety etc and therefore made mistakes, hence the deaths not being 'her fault'. I'm not sure how the insulin related deaths will fit into this though.

When you say ‘the deaths are not her fault’ technically they still would be her fault I think? she is responsible for taking care of them so she should have still thought duck I am making too many mistakes and then took the responsibility to go the sick? So if they were going to go down that route would they not be asking for a manslaughter charge or can they ask for that at a later date?

 

[Haveyouanywool]

This is the statement I am referring to. The bag was hung when Lucy was not on shift and she has not come into contact with it? How could she have spiked it then?

As someone else said, she hung the first bag and assembled the IV line. Insulin reacts with plastic causing administration to be erratic. The plastic of the IV line could still be contaminated with insulin when the second bag was given.
Insulin is never given by IV for this reason. There is no way this contamination could have happened accidentally.

 

[stardust1]

My opinion is that she really shifted later on to playing with being clever in shifting suspicion from when she was around. She began falsely time stamping things etc.

Me too, especially when she started getting taking off night shift and asking should she be worried about what the dr asked her. I think she must have heard things and had to try think of her way out

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

It was said in the opening statement

So if the sample was taken from the second bag, I assume it was this bag that was found to have been contaminated? Wouldn't that rule out the first bag being contaminated and the problem being continued on by the giving set after the bag was changed as was suggested in court the other day?

 

[Tofino]

It was said in the opening statement

i think this is actually poor reporting by sky news because it makes it sound like there was only one bag that Lucy was never near.

the report from Chester standard makes it clear the defence say it was the replacement bag she wasn’t around for. But prosecution are saying (and they need to prove this) that the second bag could have been contaminated by the first bag.

It shows the problem with live reporting. No matter how much detail we think we are reading, it’s not the same as having a full transcript and little things will be missed.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

If she were guilty of the crimes she's accused of would it be a sentence for each murder/attempted murder or rolled into one?

It would be an automatic life sentence for even one murder conviction. I think in these circumstances she would get a Whole Life term, effectively life without parole. Only a very few murders get this sentence, Jeremy Bamber being one.

 

[jackolantern]

I think they’ll feel guilty regardless: I think it’s part of being a healthcare professional. I can think of times I’ve worked where an adverse event has occurred, and even where I’m 100% sure I wasn’t at fault, I’ve still replayed the event in my head a thousand times, analysed if there was anything I could have done differently.

ETA I also just feel guilty because I get to go home to my live children after a shift doing bereavement work. It’s hard to explain unless it’s a job you have experience of

Human nature isn't it. Even if it had nothing to do with you at all, you'd always think god if I hadn't gone home that day, or it had been my shift yada yada, that baby would have still been alive. I can't even begin to imagine what the babies parents must be feeling now, it's one of the worst feelings in the world leaving your baby so to think you left them and this happened (not that it is there fault at all, that's not how I mean this), I don't think I could come back from that tbh.

 

[Laura8868]

Do you remember Rochdale grooming scandal?
On

The being switched thing really bothers me the more I think about it. If they suspected her of murdering babies, why the duck was she allowed anywhere near them? It stinks of "Oh well if the babies start dying on day shift aswell, least we've proved our theory!" it just makes no sense. It's not like you are testing for someone stealing from petty cash.

I think they couldn't just suspended her without stron suspicions or some sort of proof (,I know it sounds awful). Once they moved her collapses/deaths during the night shift stop happening and started occurring during the day shifts. That must be the moment when they realise its not coincidence, police was informed and whe was moved to admin(?I'm not sure if that's true but that's what I read somewhere).

 

[Tofino]

So if the sample was taken from the second bag, I assume it was this bag that was found to have been contaminated? Wouldn't that rule out the first bag being contaminated and the problem being continued on by the giving set after the bag was changed as was suggested in court the other day?

The problems started after bag 1 was hung. Expert is saying there can be no doubt the first bag was contaminated.
The second bag must have been contaminated by the first somehow (that seems to be what they are suggesting)
They need to show this evidence though. It depends where sample was taken from I guess.

 

[stardust1]

Not sure if these have been posted but I just saw this. It has bits from people who know Lucy. I know people keep saying well obviously she’s a scape goat because the hospital was failing but I truly believe if that’s all it was they’d have accepted the results of the review and took it as a close one

 

[ChunkyDunk]

Babies that have NEC can do though. That’s coming from experience with my own baby. It literally comes out of no where x

As have I, all of mine have had NEC with varying degrees of severity, one had a large section of small bowel removed and a stoma for months. And I’ve seen babies crash suddenly, mine included. But it’s the frequency and very sudden decline at which this was happening. One after the other with the same issues. It just doesn’t add up.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Not sure if these have been posted but I just saw this. It has bits from people who know Lucy

Has anyone who knows her actually said anything bad about her? I know people can live double lives and hide evil tendencies well, but everyone who knows her seems to say that she’s a lovely person… with most serial killers there’s usually someone saying yeah she was a weirdo loner who used to go around setting fire to the neighbourhood cats.

 

[Laura8868]

Not sure if these have been posted but I just saw this. It has bits from people who know Lucy. I know people keep saying well obviously she’s a scape goat because the hospital was failing but I truly believe if that’s all it was they’d have accepted the results of the review and took it as a close one

Many serial killer looks so normal, innocent and polite. I think is hard to accept for the people who know her that she (allegedly) done such a horrible, horrible crime.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

I’ve been reading the RCPCH report when they reviewed the neonatal unit and loads of really concerning things in it.

 

[stardust1]

Has anyone who knows her actually said anything bad about her? I know people can live double lives and hide evil tendencies well, but everyone who knows her seems to say that she’s a lovely person… with most serial killers there’s usually someone saying yeah she was a weirdo loner who used to go around setting fire to the neighbourhood cats.

Not sure but I’ve defo watched crime documentaries about killers who had good character references so I guess it doesn’t mean much either way.

I’ve been reading the RCPCH report when they reviewed the neonatal unit and loads of really concerning things in it. View attachment 1653030

This is what I mean tho non of that report pinned the blame on anyone so why did they still think it was appropriate to call the police. They obviously thought the report didn’t answer all the questions

 

[Tofino]

I’ve been reading the RCPCH report when they reviewed the neonatal unit and loads of really concerning things in it. View attachment 1653030

So the unit operating with only 21% staffing levels has been misconstrued then. It was a 21% shortfall. So relatively speaking that’s having 8 members of staff when you need 10. Or 16 when you need 20. Obviously not great still but nowhere near the same as having 2 staff members when you need 10.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Not sure but I’ve defo watched crime documentaries about killers who had good character references so I guess it doesn’t mean much either way.

You’re right, I guess I’m struggling to get my head around what would make someone like her do such a thing? There’s no ducked up childhood, no history of violence or abuse, she was successful in her career, doesn’t seem to have been suffering with any mental health issues or traumas, had normal friendships, seemed to get on with colleagues etc. I guess that’s what makes it so weird, because at the end of the day there really aren’t any signs that she would be a mass murderer whatsoever