Neither can I. That's the thing and that's why I think she is guilty.
But there's a line between hope and reality.
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But there's a line between hope and reality.
If she’s guilty she might also just want the victims families to have to sit through even more torture by listening to the details in court. We haven’t heard any indication of motive yet - it could simply be she’s sick and twisted, and this would be the final part of her ducked up fantasy.
How did she come to be arrested? Did members of staff express concerns ? I was thinking of when she was moved from nights to days. Did this happen because people suspected her ? If so, was anything else done about it then ? Having worked in hospitals , definitely on a night it's quieter, less hustle & bustle, no doctors rounds, less staff, darker, no visitors, It would definitely be easier on nights to do things unnoticed or things you shouldn't be
I haven’t read all the threads but I’ve been reading the wiki and I think the defence seems weak.
I work in healthcare and I’ve also had babies in NICU (in regional surgical units and local NICU/SCBU) for long periods with very complex issues so I’ve seen my fair share of babies being very, very unwell and the complexities and how things work. These things just don’t happen. Seemingly stable babies just don’t crash and become unwell suddenly at the frequency that was occurring in this case.
The defence saying that excess air in the abdomen can be explained by CPAP belly or the optiflow just doesn’t happen. Yes there will be some air but not enough to cause the catastrophic results for these babies.
I work in healthcare and I’ve also had babies in NICU (in regional surgical units and local NICU/SCBU) for long periods with very complex issues so I’ve seen my fair share of babies being very, very unwell and the complexities and how things work. These things just don’t happen. Seemingly stable babies just don’t crash and become unwell suddenly at the frequency that was occurring in this case.
The defence saying that excess air in the abdomen can be explained by CPAP belly or the optiflow just doesn’t happen. Yes there will be some air but not enough to cause the catastrophic results for these babies.
The being switched thing really bothers me the more I think about it. If they suspected her of murdering babies, why the duck was she allowed anywhere near them? It stinks of "Oh well if the babies start dying on day shift aswell, least we've proved our theory!" it just makes no sense. It's not like you are testing for someone stealing from petty cash.
Exactly this - so to me that's already a massive massive red flag - either they were totally negligent - or - they have lied in order to cover themselves.
I think someone mentioned earlier, and I don’t if it’s fact or presumption, but someone suggested that initially it was thought she was maybe incompetent and making mistakes rather than murdering the babies. So, I think she was moved to days where there was more support and higher qualified staff to maybe teach her where she’s gone wrong.
But if that's the case, surely she'd have to be shadowed at every point throughout the day? Like even if it's just 'mistakes', those mistakes were killing babies, so how could you trust her around them alone? I haven't read anything that said she was permanently shadowed after the suspicions were raised unless I've just missed it?
It’s been doing my head in so badly, I keep coming back to it. I posted my theory on thread five, page 43 post 849, if you want to read my take on it and how I’ve come to understand that total disgrace of a decision. Still can’t get my head around it, perhaps we never will.
Exactly. If it’s incompetency they have suspected, caring for the most vulnerable in society then they needed to do more than switch her shifts. Instead they switched her shift AND let her supervise a student nurse!?!? Makes no sense to me. If this is what we’ve found out before the trials even really started it’s devastating to think what may emerge over the next 6 months.
Oh I will thank you for that
I can't keep up with all the threads so have no doubt missed some great posts.
I said in earlier thread, I've heard through what's essentially rumors, I've no proof or reliable source, but I've heard it said people knew what she was doing quite soon into her doing it, but they couldn't accuse her without proof and the staffs hands were tied.
Now we can pick that apart to pieces, but the reality is, it's hear say and unless somebody at trial says similar it's balls. But imagine if you did know, we all think, "I'd so XYZ" but what do you do really? duck up your career by not going through the correct channels, end up in jail yourself for hurting her?
I believe she did it however I'm going off gut instinct or hunch, because I think she seems likely a lovely studenty type, probably chat in the loos about what lipstick she's wearing or something.
Nothing "bad vibes" about her from me, I'm basing this on liklihood and I think it's more likely she killed and attempted to kill those babies than the liklihood of such a huge amount of unexpected deaths, of her being present for every single one.
When I've read your discussions, (trying to keep up) I see what you mean about the scapegoating. The police force close ranks and the NHS are definitely not above throwing her under the bus to save their own ineptitude, but do I believe that the police, NHS and cps are working in harmony to implicate one individual?
I don't think they're capable of such organisation within their own lanes, let alone joining forces.
Also, the scapegoating theory requires many many people to to be in on a massive secret, that in itself is so unlikely. People will only keep quiet to protect themselves, not others.
Soz that was dead bleepin long, got my nephew twatting me, sat on my knee asking for my phone so I got out as much as I could!
Now we can pick that apart to pieces, but the reality is, it's hear say and unless somebody at trial says similar it's balls. But imagine if you did know, we all think, "I'd so XYZ" but what do you do really? duck up your career by not going through the correct channels, end up in jail yourself for hurting her?
I believe she did it however I'm going off gut instinct or hunch, because I think she seems likely a lovely studenty type, probably chat in the loos about what lipstick she's wearing or something.
Nothing "bad vibes" about her from me, I'm basing this on liklihood and I think it's more likely she killed and attempted to kill those babies than the liklihood of such a huge amount of unexpected deaths, of her being present for every single one.
When I've read your discussions, (trying to keep up) I see what you mean about the scapegoating. The police force close ranks and the NHS are definitely not above throwing her under the bus to save their own ineptitude, but do I believe that the police, NHS and cps are working in harmony to implicate one individual?
I don't think they're capable of such organisation within their own lanes, let alone joining forces.
Also, the scapegoating theory requires many many people to to be in on a massive secret, that in itself is so unlikely. People will only keep quiet to protect themselves, not others.
Soz that was dead bleepin long, got my nephew twatting me, sat on my knee asking for my phone so I got out as much as I could!
The people that think she’s guilty what do you think about the insulin contaminated IV bag never being in her presence at any time? This makes me think is it easy for IV bags to be contaminated accidentally??
Absolutely. I'd throw my career in the trash can if it meant protecting babies lives. If anyone knew or strongly suspected she was harming those babies and did nothing they are despicable people as far as I'm concerned. I'd physically barricade the room if I had to. I'd hope most would.
No, they aren’t easily contaminated.
This is one piece of evidence to at is really bugging me. And I hope the defence examine it in depth. I’m 50/50 at the minute! So glad I’m not on the jury
Babies that have NEC can do though. That’s coming from experience with my own baby. It literally comes out of no where x
I'd hope that if I'm honest.
this is what I can’t make sense of in my head! How did she contaminate it if it wasn’t in her presence?!
I can agree with this but I also think that is easy for us to say standing from our side. If I came home and said to my husband I think another nurse is killing babies he would probably think I was a nutter myself which is understandable because to us it is absolutely unthinkable that someone would seriously do that to harm them babies. I’m hoping there is going to be some evidence that the nurses raised their concerns and higher management shushed them rather than everyone decided to completely ignore what was around them. I think it is pretty balsy to make the accusation your colleague, maybe even someone you thought as a friend is killing babies. That is why I think the likelihood is, she is guilty it is just the issue of proving it. It is pretty delusional in its self to make those sort of lies up about someone to hide failings of the trust that you never really got into trouble for in the first place.
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