Lucy Letby Case #6

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The main thing I find odd about this is that the doctor had to go off to find a camera and by the time they were back it was gone. Most drs I've seen have their phones in their pockets, same with nurses, the parents were also there too so I don't know why it wasn't said can you take a photo of it to another member of staff.

And like you say if it's that unusual then LL should've raised it straight away no?
You absolutely cannot take pictures of patients on your phone, and it’s highly inappropriate to ask the babies parents to when they’re already worried sick. He also probably wasn’t expecting the rash to just disappear.
 
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Doctors and nurses should never and would never take photos of patient's conditions or bodies on a personal phone.

Can you imagine a doctor or nurse taking a photo of your fan because there's some strange cyst, and keeping it on their personal phone....
I mean there are people lurking in the darker corners of the Internet that would pay good money for pics like that so I would be double angry.
 
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To be fair as well the nurse that told them to go and rest could’ve been Lucy but they don’t remember. They wouldn’t be allowed to say it was her unless they were 100% certain.
 
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The main thing I find odd about this is that the doctor had to go off to find a camera and by the time they were back it was gone. Most drs I've seen have their phones in their pockets, same with nurses, the parents were also there too so I don't know why it wasn't said can you take a photo of it to another member of staff.

And like you say if it's that unusual then LL should've raised it straight away no?
I don’t think you’d be permitted to take photos on your personal phone for data protection reasons.
We were not permitted to do that. We were not permitted to have our personal phones at all.
There are Ward phones for nurses to contact doctors, and vice versa, by text or call but they are just simple devices for the above data protection reasons.
 
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Everyone starts at 7.30pm and assembles in a room. The nurse in charge from day shift ‘hands over’ the information to the next shift, in this case the night shift. The other nursing staff are still looking after the patients.
When the official handover finishes at around 8pm the nurse designated to a patient will get a verbal handover from the nurse who has been looking after the patient on that shift. Things still to be done or running late etc.
Of course official handovers can be longer or shorter than the allotted 30 minutes.
Sorry if I’m stating the obvious!
Makes sense, I thought it would be the case. It just confused me that 7:30pm isn’t classed as start of the shift and that 8pm after the handover is. So when they said 16 minutes after start of shift 8:16pm it didn’t make sense to me that she started at 7:30pm. As to me start of the shift should be the time handover starts as they are still working at that point
 
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Please anyone who is finding this case too harrowing, please take some time away and look after yourselves. I know it’s hard to stop reading but I know this could be incredibly triggering. ❤
Thinking of those poor families and the babies they lost. 🤍
 
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Am struggling with the mottled skin, looking into it suggests it's upto 50% of prem babies will have varying degrees of it.

Causes can include- infection, circulation, heart issues and temperature. Also can be seen in divers with decompression sickness, so air embolism.

Can any nicu nurses share their experiences of it?
 
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I wonder if the nurse who cared for Baby A will have a witness statement with the time being so close to their handover of care.
 
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Makes sense, I thought it would be the case. It just confused me that 7:30pm isn’t classed as start of the shift and that 8pm after the handover is. So when they said 16 minutes after start of shift 8:16pm it didn’t make sense to me that she started at 7:30pm. As to me start of the shift should be the time handover starts as they are still working at that point
Technically start of your shift is 7.30pm as you get paid from then. It’s normal practice for everyone to go into the official handover but, on occasion, you may bypass the official handover and go straight to a patient, if you’re exclusively working with them, as your work officially starts at 7.30pm.
 
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Am struggling with the mottled skin, looking into it suggests it's upto 50% of prem babies will have varying degrees of it.

Causes can include- infection, circulation, heart issues and temperature. Also can be seen in divers with decompression sickness, so air embolism.

Can any nicu nurses share their experiences of it?
It was different to usual.. it’s unusual and focused on the trunk. I don’t think the doctor would invent that? He was dumbstruck enough by it to want to photograph it and it’s going to continue to be a theme of the incidents that contain other similarities also.
 
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This is a peculiar thing to say. She didn’t chase this up? Not even after Baby B also collapsed? It sounds like she was trying to blame the nurse who cared for the baby during the day so surely she would have went to senior staff regarding her concerns.
 
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16 minutes into her shift and she's been able to murder a baby. This is just getting a bit far fetched to me. I know it's not a popular opinion on here but that's what I think.
And if this was the first baby, then 16 minutes to be pretty confident about what she was going to do. Didnt spend any time to hesitate, think twice or wait to get settled into her shift.
You make a good point for both arguments. If she is guilty, this makes it seem that she knew exactly what she was doing, her head was set, planned etc etc.

Then if that wasn't enough, she attempts to do the same, so shortly after with Child B...any normal person would think, 'it will look too suspicious'.

There must be evidence leading up to that point, was she edgy, did she make any online searches?
 
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Is anyone local to the hospital that can say what they think of it? I think some people jump on the bandwagon of horror stories and rumours about the hospital. I saw a post and there was many comments saying their baby was in the NNU while Lucy was there and they felt looked after, also good comments about the maternity. A few comments saying it has a bad rep but it is no worse than other hospitals. Then there is comments about how it needs bulldozed🤔
I’m local. I looked into this hospital to give birth at in 2014. My husband had been for operations at TCOC many times and rated it very good ( I’d never been ) but when we looked into the maternity wards I remember the reviews were bad and we discarded it there and then. They weren’t anything major just minor complaints but it put me off. Most hospitals are probably a mix of good and bad areas.
Gives me chills now to think I nearly went there.
 
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And also makes me wonder, if the mottling was so unusual that the drs wanted official photography for it (there was even a nurse for one of the cases who noticed it)- did LL ever raise this issue or notice it was unusual?

Because if everytime you handle a baby there is this odd mottling no one else has seen, I would expect the attending and senior nurse to pick up on it as well. If she never mentioned it to anyone or asked for it to be checked out or herself worried about what it might be - that's strange. A dedicated nurse as she's been described would care about unusual symptoms enough to flag it surely....
I wondered if it was because there were several different doctors and nurses on different cases which is why they never realised for ages there was a disturbing pattern of this unusual mottling in the babies that crashed and/or died.

The only constant was LL wasn't it. Like you said, if she was experienced then you would expect her to mention it if she was genuinely not doing anything wrong. Presumably it wouldn't be something she would typically see and was suddenly seeing it in all these cases, which would raise concerns as a nurse. Lots of the nurses on here say NIUCU crashes are quite rate to witness
 
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Our SCBU took photos and videos of our son to upload to a secure platform for us to see when we weren’t there. It’s a new system being trialled in our county. There wasn’t a work mobile so they must have used their own or maybe a work tablet (they did have that). So some places do allow photo taking, although that was this year but definitely not an 100% no for confidentiality thing as suggested above.
 
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With Judith saying the jurors are receiving data of her entry and exit from the wards and her whatsapp messages etc I hope we get to learn some of that too.
 
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It was different to usual.. it’s unusual and focused on the trunk. I don’t think the doctor would invent that? He was dumbstruck enough by it to want to photograph it and it’s going to continue to be a theme of the incidents that contain other similarities also.
Where have I suggested it was invented? Its a question because its not something I have much understanding of.
 
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Our SCBU took photos and videos of our son to upload to a secure platform for us to see when we weren’t there. It’s a new system being trialled in our county. There wasn’t a work mobile so they must have used their own or maybe a work tablet (they did have that). So some places do allow photo taking, although that was this year but definitely not an 100% no for confidentiality thing as suggested above.
Aye i said this the other day, we used VCreate and the nurses used their mobile phones.
For something like a rash on the skin though I'd expect medical illustration to be involved to get a clear photo for further investigation and documentation
 
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I have had a photo taken by a paramedic on her phone. I was being blue lighter to hospital and they asked if something was normal for me? I couldn’t see what she meant due to my injuries so she took photos of it on her phone and showed them to me. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just that it happens
 
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