Lucy Letby Case #6

[Haveyouanywool]

How long are handovers? I’d have thought it would’ve taken at least that long for the day nurse to tell the night nurse about the baby? Or is it not done like that

Everyone starts at 7.30pm and assembles in a room. The nurse in charge from day shift ‘hands over’ the information to the next shift, in this case the night shift. The other nursing staff are still looking after the patients.
When the official handover finishes at around 8pm the nurse designated to a patient will get a verbal handover from the nurse who has been looking after the patient on that shift. Things still to be done or running late etc.
Of course official handovers can be longer or shorter than the allotted 30 minutes.
Sorry if I’m stating the obvious!

 

[MmmB777]

I think what's important is not how soon after she started shift that they collapsed and needed resuscitation but how soon after she fed them/intubated them/took blood gases/gave insulin etc that the babies collapsed or died.

And the presentation or unusual things - things the doctor had NEVER seen. That are then going to become a very familiar feature also xx

 

[SamPam]

I think they must mean LL when they mentioned a Lucy, I don't think they would have named another nurse.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

Perhaps the timings will make more sense to those in court with this interactive sequence of events

 

[Haveyouanywool]

No, I completely agree. There would have been a handover, which should take at least half an hour!

How long do you think it takes to inject air into a line?

 

[Emmelina Ball]

I think they must mean LL when they mentioned a Lucy, I don't think they would have named another nurse.

Yea would be strange to mention another nurse called Lucy as it would cause confusion. Im assuming they would redact the name if it was a different one.

 

[friedeggontoast]

In both cases, they collapsed/died about 15-30 mins after she fed them or did blood gases.

This is just too coincidental for the deaths to be unrelated to LL

 

[Windowtothewall]

And the presentation or unusual things - things the doctor had NEVER seen. That are then going to become a very familiar feature also xx

And also makes me wonder, if the mottling was so unusual that the drs wanted official photography for it (there was even a nurse for one of the cases who noticed it)- did LL ever raise this issue or notice it was unusual?

Because if everytime you handle a baby there is this odd mottling no one else has seen, I would expect the attending and senior nurse to pick up on it as well. If she never mentioned it to anyone or asked for it to be checked out or herself worried about what it might be - that's strange. A dedicated nurse as she's been described would care about unusual symptoms enough to flag it surely....

 

[friedeggontoast]

Everyone starts at 7.30pm and assembles in a room. The nurse in charge from day shift ‘hands over’ the information to the next shift, in this case the night shift. The other nursing staff are still looking after the patients.
When the official handover finishes at around 8pm the nurse designated to a patient will get a verbal handover from the nurse who has been looking after the patient on that shift. Things still to be done or running late etc.
Sorry if I’m stating the obvious!

So 16 minutes after LL would’ve joined the ward and had her verbal handover to take over the baby deteriorates.

 

[Windowtothewall]

So 16 minutes after LL would’ve joined the ward and had her verbal handover to take over the baby deteriorates.

No, it would be 16 mins after she starts her shift and does the feed.

She has handover at 7.30om, does a feed at 8pm (official shift start) and baby collapses at 8.16pm.

 

[friedeggontoast]

No, it would be 16 mins after she starts her shift and does the feed.

She has handover at 7.30om, does a feed at 8pm (official shift start) and baby collapses at 8.16pm.

Sorry that’s sort of what I meant, I’m just not down the the lingo. I meant 16 minutes after she’s on shift and joined the ward

 

[MoveBtchGetOutTheWay]

And also makes me wonder, if the mottling was so unusual that the drs wanted official photography for it (there was even a nurse for one of the cases who noticed it)- did LL ever raise this issue or notice it was unusual?

Because if everytime you handle a baby there is this odd mottling no one else has seen, I would expect the attending and senior nurse to pick up on it as well. If she never mentioned it to anyone or asked for it to be checked out or herself worried about what it might be - that's strange. A dedicated nurse as she's been described would care about unusual symptoms enough to flag it surely....

The main thing I find odd about this is that the doctor had to go off to find a camera and by the time they were back it was gone. Most drs I've seen have their phones in their pockets, same with nurses, the parents were also there too so I don't know why it wasn't said can you take a photo of it to another member of staff.

And like you say if it's that unusual then LL should've raised it straight away no?

 

[Windowtothewall]

The main thing I find odd about this is that the doctor had to go off to find a camera and by the time they were back it was gone. Most drs I've seen have their phones in their pockets, same with nurses, the parents were also there too so I don't know why it wasn't said can you take a photo of it to another member of staff.

And like you say if it's that unusual then LL should've raised it straight away no?

I wondered this too about the doctor asking for a camera. I think it maybe a special medical grade camera as you can't use personal phone to take patient photos? Just guessing.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

So 16 minutes after LL would’ve joined the ward and had her verbal handover to take over the baby deteriorates.

Why not? I think you’d crash pretty quickly if you had air injected into your blood stream.
I’m not sure but I think there would be a trolley with frequently used equipment (needles, syringes, ng tubes etc) beside each cot space.

 

[I’mThankyou_]

The main thing I find odd about this is that the doctor had to go off to find a camera and by the time they were back it was gone. Most drs I've seen have their phones in their pockets, same with nurses, the parents were also there too so I don't know why it wasn't said can you take a photo of it to another member of staff.

And like you say if it's that unusual then LL should've raised it straight away no?

If he needed it for medical illustration purposes he will of needed to use the hospitals camera

 

[FastAndTheCurious7]

I need to take a step back from following this. I had a really traumatic birth and currently recovering help for PND and this is too triggering.

Take care guys

 

[Lucyxxxx]

The main thing I find odd about this is that the doctor had to go off to find a camera and by the time they were back it was gone. Most drs I've seen have their phones in their pockets, same with nurses, the parents were also there too so I don't know why it wasn't said can you take a photo of it to another member of staff.

And like you say if it's that unusual then LL should've raised it straight away no?

Could this tie in with why she had taken a photo of the twins later on?

 

[candyland_]

The main thing I find odd about this is that the doctor had to go off to find a camera and by the time they were back it was gone. Most drs I've seen have their phones in their pockets, same with nurses, the parents were also there too so I don't know why it wasn't said can you take a photo of it to another member of staff.

And like you say if it's that unusual then LL should've raised it straight away no?

It’s possible that they aren’t allowed to take photos on the phone they carry around with them and they have to be done on the ward camera.

 

[Windowtothewall]

Doctors and nurses should never and would never take photos of patient's conditions or bodies on a personal phone.

Can you imagine a doctor or nurse taking a photo of your fan because there's some strange cyst, and keeping it on their personal phone....

 

[friedeggontoast]

Why not? I think you’d crash pretty quickly if you had air injected into your blood stream.
I’m not sure but I think there would be a trolley with frequently used equipment (needles, syringes, ng tubes etc) beside each cot space.

I’m not questioning it, I’m saying it’s all too coincidental for LL to not have been involved. I believe she did it