Lucy Letby Case #42

[GreenPanda]

Just got my other half up to speed with the trial as he wasn't following and he says she is totally guilty and he can't comprehend why she's done it from a guys view she's a cuckoo he said also l need some baby advice so added a spoiler

Spoiler

has any of you lovely tattlers that have ever breastfed experienced a baby with reflux? I think mini Caledonian has reflux. He's really sicky after a feed and even after bringing wind up he's screaming unless he's vertical. Either that or my milk is drying up as that happened with wee Caledonian albeit 7 months in and not at 5wks in

Yes dealt with it for months, sometimes she would projectile vomit.
At 7 months I finally managed to get her in to a private clinic for tongue tie release and that solved it
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Can I ask what the bathroom dildo is about?
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Oh gosh I didn’t want that question to go on to that post

 

[raspberryjuice]

BM didn’t need to call his own expert witnesses, it seems he IS the expert on it all!

 

[kata420]

Spoiler

has any of you lovely tattlers that have ever breastfed experienced a baby with reflux? I think mini Caledonian has reflux. He's really sicky after a feed and even after bringing wind up he's screaming unless he's vertical. Either that or my milk is drying up as that happened with wee Caledonian albeit 7 months in and not at 5wks in

[/QUOTE]

Spoiler: Spoiler

I am a few weeks ahead of you, but baby K (11 weeks now) had very bad reflux for her first few weeks. She was crying and squirming with pain after each feed and would vomit/projectile vomit at times. I didn’t know what to be doing or if I was doing anythign wrong. It’s quite upsetting when so tired too. Could you get in touch with a lactation consultant? Infacol helped us a little bit (I think) and I would sit up after each feed for about 30 mins (painful when so exhausted). Neither helped much. I got a lovely lactation consultant out who felt I had a fast let down (spraying everywhere and painful at times). She recommended side lying for feeds which kind of helped and advised to pump a little bit before morning feeds when I had a lot of milk. It all helped a little but not enough. I booked a GP appointment but before we went she seemed to just suddenly improve around the 8 week mark. So I never got as far as getting a script for Losec. She still spews occasionally but she is much less distressed now and she’s putting on weight so I think she’s just grown out of it maybe. I think a lactation consultant might be a good way to go. I second the Facebook groups too but some of the women can be quite intense (in the nicest way possible). Do you have La Leche League or any of those groups near to you? Wishing you the best with baby Caledonian. I hope that’s somewhat helpful. 🩷

 

[terfette]

Secondly, why is he insisting these babies were at deaths door because they were admitted to a NNU?
A huge % of people who are admitted to hospital are unwell. Doesn't mean they are dying, it just means they need medical support to recover.

I’ve tried to point this out to people a few times. He’s the only one who is such a massive cock that he would phrase it the way he does, but a lot of the people who think she’s NG seem to think that all babies on neonatal are severely unwell and collapsing left right and centre. When in fact, most are premature, most premature babies are 30 weeks plus, and the survival rate for babies over 30 weeks is 98%. Even at 27 weeks it’s 89%.

 

[Caledonianprincess]

Spoiler

has any of you lovely tattlers that have ever breastfed experienced a baby with reflux? I think mini Caledonian has reflux. He's really sicky after a feed and even after bringing wind up he's screaming unless he's vertical. Either that or my milk is drying up as that happened with wee Caledonian albeit 7 months in and not at 5wks in

Spoiler: Spoiler

I am a few weeks ahead of you, but baby K (11 weeks now) had very bad reflux for her first few weeks. She was crying and squirming with pain after each feed and would vomit/projectile vomit at times. I didn’t know what to be doing or if I was doing anythign wrong. It’s quite upsetting when so tired too. Could you get in touch with a lactation consultant? Infacol helped us a little bit (I think) and I would sit up after each feed for about 30 mins (painful when so exhausted). Neither helped much. I got a lovely lactation consultant out who felt I had a fast let down (spraying everywhere and painful at times). She recommended side lying for feeds which kind of helped and advised to pump a little bit before morning feeds when I had a lot of milk. It all helped a little but not enough. I booked a GP appointment but before we went she seemed to just suddenly improve around the 8 week mark. So I never got as far as getting a script for Losec. She still spews occasionally but she is much less distressed now and she’s putting on weight so I think she’s just grown out of it maybe. I think a lactation consultant might be a good way to go. I second the Facebook groups too but some of the women can be quite intense (in the nicest way possible). Do you have La Leche League or any of those groups near to you? Wishing you the best with baby Caledonian. I hope that’s somewhat helpful. 🩷

[/QUOTE]

Spoiler

thank you I'm glad you and baby k have came out the other side. Breastfeeding can be such a minefield at times. I see a lady from the infant feeding team and she is amazing. She was the one who helped me sort positioning when the hospitals way had had me crying in pain for 4 days when he was born. She sorted me within 30mins and it wasn't painful. I do have a fast let down so I stem the flow a bit by pressing gently on my boob when he first latches on

 

[mysteriousgirl69]

New poll: How big is Letby's Annihilator Dildotron 5000? Answers start at 10 inches minimum

Another day of peeling my eyelids off at the court updates await. I genuinely cannot wait for the trial to be concluded, it's painful just going along with it, I can't even begin to imagine how it is for the parents (especially sitting through the defence and being told their babies never stood a chance anyway...)

 

[Tishtushmush]

Spoiler: Spoiler

I am a few weeks ahead of you, but baby K (11 weeks now) had very bad reflux for her first few weeks. She was crying and squirming with pain after each feed and would vomit/projectile vomit at times. I didn’t know what to be doing or if I was doing anythign wrong. It’s quite upsetting when so tired too. Could you get in touch with a lactation consultant? Infacol helped us a little bit (I think) and I would sit up after each feed for about 30 mins (painful when so exhausted). Neither helped much. I got a lovely lactation consultant out who felt I had a fast let down (spraying everywhere and painful at times). She recommended side lying for feeds which kind of helped and advised to pump a little bit before morning feeds when I had a lot of milk. It all helped a little but not enough. I booked a GP appointment but before we went she seemed to just suddenly improve around the 8 week mark. So I never got as far as getting a script for Losec. She still spews occasionally but she is much less distressed now and she’s putting on weight so I think she’s just grown out of it maybe. I think a lactation consultant might be a good way to go. I second the Facebook groups too but some of the women can be quite intense (in the nicest way possible). Do you have La Leche League or any of those groups near to you? Wishing you the best with baby Caledonian. I hope that’s somewhat helpful. 🩷

Spoiler

thank you I'm glad you and baby k have came out the other side. Breastfeeding can be such a minefield at times. I see a lady from the infant feeding team and she is amazing. She was the one who helped me sort positioning when the hospitals way had had me crying in pain for 4 days when he was born. She sorted me within 30mins and it wasn't painful. I do have a fast let down so I stem the flow a bit by pressing gently on my boob when he first latches on

[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I don't know how to hide my post but yes, both of mine had silent reflux. My eldest just suffered because dr didn't believe in "silent" reflux but my youngest was given Ranitidine which controlled it really well. Omeprazole is another (but stronger) option for breastfed babies. However both of mine developed reflux symptoms again when they were older and we found out they had dairy/soya allergies. Might be worth discussing with the lady from the feeding team about you trialling dairy free for a month to see if it helps? Really hope your little one is more settled soon- it's so hard!

 

[Dolly Daydreaming]

I was looking for new enrichment toys on Amazon last night for my newly rescued dog, and I swear I had to do a double take on this I thought it was LL Robocock 5000 at first (hers would probably be beige or hot pink)

 

[DoseofReality]

Bad Man BM's prison name suggestions go...

Phil A Buster
Colin D'Plumber

(Any spys I'm not suggesting he's going to prison or should be, except on visits.)

 

[Futtrit]

New poll: How big is Letby's Annihilator Dildotron 5000? Answers start at 10 inches minimum

Another day of peeling my eyelids off at the court updates await. I genuinely cannot wait for the trial to be concluded, it's painful just going along with it, I can't even begin to imagine how it is for the parents (especially sitting through the defence and being told their babies never stood a chance anyway...)

I used to lurk on the Stephen Bear thread and they used to come up with the most amazing names for his various bum busters! I would genuinely cry.

 

[MrsON]

Just got my other half up to speed with the trial as he wasn't following and he says she is totally guilty and he can't comprehend why she's done it from a guys view she's a cuckoo he said also l need some baby advice so added a spoiler

Spoiler

has any of you lovely tattlers that have ever breastfed experienced a baby with reflux? I think mini Caledonian has reflux. He's really sicky after a feed and even after bringing wind up he's screaming unless he's vertical. Either that or my milk is drying up as that happened with wee Caledonian albeit 7 months in and not at 5wks in

Spoiler

urgh I’m sorry you’re experiencing the hell of reflux, I’m in this same hell too my (baby is now 4 months). Sounds like you have a fab supply (if he’s bringing up lots of milk that suggests he’s getting enough from you ). A few things could be exacerbating it so best to ensure it’s still not any of these things; tongue tie, shallow latch, fast let down. Sometimes it’s just their floppy valve and the older they get it self-corrects. As you say you have a fast flow, sometimes leaning back or doing koala position can help this, or letting milk flow into a muslin for the first bit before latching him. If latch & position is good then you can get omeprazole and gaviscon from GP but I’ve found they’re a nightmare to get into breastfed baby & cause constipation but your baby might be more receptive than mine! Is there an infant feeding team in your area? They’re so so helpful. If it’s affecting his weight gain, then your GP should refer to paediatrician and dietician. PS There is a rare condition called pyloric stenosis which does affect more boys so if you’re worried about him then best to get him checked over to exclude this also. Sending you solidarity, it’s an absolute nightmare

 

[EffingDust]

Linque du jour:

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 28 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[kabukigirl]

I’ve had to stop reading the FB group since Ben started his closing because they’re all on some kind of high and convinced she’s going to be found not guilty, and it makes me wonder if we’re all reading the same thing.
Kinda feel gaslit myself.

Same as Reddit - all the baby killer supporters are feeling brave enough to post, now that they think Benny boy is smashing it out the park with his closing

 

[MedeaWho]

BM didn’t need to call his own expert witnesses, it seems he IS the expert on it all!

It sounds to me like does have some medics working with him as clinical advisors. So why wouldn’t they testify? Is it because they think she’s guilty or because of potential reputations damage?

 

[Caledonianprincess]

Spoiler

urgh I’m sorry you’re experiencing the hell of reflux, I’m in this same hell too my (baby is now 4 months). Sounds like you have a fab supply (if he’s bringing up lots of milk that suggests he’s getting enough from you ). A few things could be exacerbating it so best to ensure it’s still not any of these things; tongue tie, shallow latch, fast let down. Sometimes it’s just their floppy valve and the older they get it self-corrects. As you say you have a fast flow, sometimes leaning back or doing koala position can help this, or letting milk flow into a muslin for the first bit before latching him. If latch & position is good then you can get omeprazole and gaviscon from GP but I’ve found they’re a nightmare to get into breastfed baby & cause constipation but your baby might be more receptive than mine! Is there an infant feeding team in your area? They’re so so helpful. If it’s affecting his weight gain, then your GP should refer to paediatrician and dietician. PS There is a rare condition called pyloric stenosis which does affect more boys so if you’re worried about him then best to get him checked over to exclude this also. Sending you solidarity, it’s an absolute nightmare

Spoiler

I feed sitting back and not bolt upright like the hospital wanted me to as that wasnt comfy. I hadn't heard of that condition before so just had a read up on it. His are generally quite mucousy and haven't really changed consistency for a while and there usually isn't a lot of it. I'll phone the doctors and see what they can do for us

 

[amsmall]

I was looking for new enrichment toys on Amazon last night for my newly rescued dog, and I swear I had to do a double take on this I thought it was LL Robocock 5000 at first (hers would probably be beige or hot pink)

Just a heads up regarding the dog toy. There has been lots of reports with dogs getting their gums stuck in the toy causing injury
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Linque du jour:

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 28 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Merci beaucoup

 

[Miscanthus]

• Child A
  • Opportunity to attack: BM arguing that LL didn't have the opportunity to attack as it was Mel Taylor who did the fluid adminstration. Mel T says she doesn't remember whether it was her or LL, but LL remembers 100% that it was Mel T (yet BM says witnesses can't remember correctly because time has passed..). But LL has been proven to lie on the stand about commando, pyjamas, social life etc and Mel T hasn't - so why would I believe LL?
  • And this is where looking at all the cases is useful - because how many babies had the same rash, air embolism or insulin collapses after Mel T treated them?
  • Denying air embolus: Where is your medical expert to say that it could have been sub optimal care, Ben? I've heard 3 prosecution experts say it was air embolus. But sure I'll believe you over them.
  • BM says Sandie Bohin reluctantly agreed that air embolus could be caused accidentally. That's because it is theoretically possible but so rare and something she has never seen happen to neo nates and neither has anyone else. Yet seemed to happen a lot around Letby in her year on the ICU.
  • Bohin's evidence - She adds that even if air was accidentally administered, there is an electronic pump system which would detect the air and stop the administration
    
    
• Child B
  
  • BM said it was "normal" for her to be assisting a nursing colleague in room 1, in assisting putting up the TPN bag at 12.05am.
  • Except LL was supposed to be in room 3 looking after two other babies, not being in room 1 where baby B was - how could it be normal for her when she had only just qualified to be in room 1 in April, and this is June??
  • Mr Myers says for this allegation, Letby would have to be close to Child B - "and of course, she is not
  • SHE WAS IN ROOM 1 DOING B's BLOOD GAS 15 mins before he collapsed
  • He says the nursing colleague is "not going to miss that" if air is injected, and it would not take 25 minutes for it to have an effect [when the deterioration takes place].
  • Because she probably did when doing the blood gas at 12.16 (taking 10 mins) rather than assisting with the TPN bag at 12.05 (taking 25 mins). She had multiple chances to do it as she was in room 1 the entire hour with B.
  • BM says Letby is being blamed for something when 'on the evidence she wasn't even in the room when alleged harm was done.' - EXCEPT SHE WAS (See sequence before B's collapse below)!! If you don't think she did alleged harm, how can you pinpoint at what time it happened to know where she was?
  • 10th June
    12.05am Letby is then involved with administering nutrition at 12.05am. Letby is a co-signer for the nutrition prescription at 12.05am on June 10.
    
    12.16am:A blood gases record by Letby of Child B is made at 12.16am and another at what appears to be 12.51am, the latter "during neopuffing".
    
    12.30am: The designated nurse's record for the desaturation and collapse event at 12.30am, written retrospectively, includes the notes: "Sudden desaturation to 50%. The court hears this is a 'crash call'.
    

Brilliant post.

How come there should be one nurse per baby according to BM yet it's OK for LL to continually be in another room instead of looking after HER designated babies?

 

[gimmethattea]

I am almost up to date with this new thread, but I, like others, am really struggling with Dr BM's closing defence.

As a Mom of a NICU baby last year, I find it incredibly insulting that he just states that all these babies were on deaths door or had very little survival rates because they required NICU care.

I know many other parents will feel very similar to this and I can imagine those parents in the trial feel it more than most having to sit and listen to him.

Babies in NICU are little fighters and survivors. The vast majority of the human race thrives to survive against the odds, so that's why we can fight infections, survive horrific events. Sometimes, that requires some extra support. Whether it be breathing support, antibiotics, feeding support, etc... But we survive because that's what our bodies do.

From what others have shared, survival rates are really high amongst NICU babies. Even babies born very early have very good rates of survival and if BM had actually been inside of a NICU, he, like others, would be astounded at the technology that is available to these babies.

At the end of it all though, parents know their baby best and much better than BM. Sure, medical staff will get to know them during their stay in NICU, but parents will still know their babies the best. They will know whether the baby was screaming or just crying, they will know what they see on their baby, they will know their babies symptoms... I would believe a parent over any one else because they are not only a parent, but they are advocating for that baby.

When your baby is in NICU, you learn everything about what is going on with them. In my case, with my son being term, but poorly with Group B Strep Sepsis, you can bet I researched every single fact, symptom, website, case studies I found, the lot.

When he was in a second time, I again spent a lot of time researching what it meant when he had it a second time, what that meant for his future. I even began to research if there would be any effects for a baby having strong antibiotics for 3+ weeks in their first month of life, because I was terrified of what would happen after.

I researched so much that I have the symptoms of Group B Strep and Sepsis are ingrained into my brain, in case Sepsis happens to him ever again, because our consultant has concerns about his immune system.

I can guarantee every one of those parents were doing the exact same things I was when they couldn't sleep at night, when they were worried about their baby after visiting.

So BM, I know this is your job and I know without people like you, a fair trial wouldn't happen. However, I despise you for how you are describing these amazing little babies, that would have survived and lived happy and amazing lives, surrounded by so much love, with their families if it wasn't for Lucy Letby. She has destroyed lives and I hope the jury can see past his smoke and mirrors..

 

[Deeznutslol]

It sounds to me like does have some medics working with him as clinical advisors. So why wouldn’t they testify? Is it because they think she’s guilty or because of potential reputations damage?

There’s a user on another site with a legal background who did a good explanation of this, a lot of the NG crowd are banging on about a guy called Michael Hall who they think that BM has potentially consulted with after he cited a letter he wrote yesterday whilst talking about the air embolism in baby A. She suggests that he could have been consulted, but the reason he wasn’t called as a witness for the defense (and why other medical witnesses also may not have been called) is because his expert testimony could have potentially done more harm to Lucy in terms of getting her off than good.

The letter is not the big break for the defense that the NG crowd seem to think it is either, it’s a case study of air embolism in a baby and Michael Hall is an expert who wrote a letter in response to it asking for clarification as to whether the air found in the baby was pure oxygen or actual air because it could potentially change the way it is distributed in the body. That was all.

 

[DoseofReality]

Lucy herself even said she'd be guided by the expert witnesses' evidence.