Lucy Letby Case #41

[SnoopySnooper86]

The crazies on Facebook/twitter keep coming up with obscure reasonings for what happened to these poor little souls, but have they even considered how unlikely that is, & that “poor Lucy” was around all these proverbial lightening strikes in the same spot each time?

Do they think that the likes of us want her to be guilty like it’s a game and something interesting to watch like public hanging?

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

I'm about to nip to the Co op, I need chocolate. Freddos obviously

Well, therefore Mrs Darcy you are not a murderer … far too happy eating Freddos.

 

[nosycowmoo]

I feel like I’ve not done a proper tattler feedback in a while so I’ll try and do one tonight, today was so interesting… I’m usually to drained but I’ll do one tonight

 

[MavisBeacon]

I'm sure you've discussed this before, but I'm curious from any of m'learned friends on here about defence barristers and the cab rank rule - as I understand it, you have to take the case that's before you. I think this is an essential part of our justice system and even monsters deserve a fair trial. But I'm curious as to how it works if you're not convinced by their innocence, but if they've pled NG you still have to build a case for their defence? It must be very hard psychologically, especially if you're a 'winner' kind of personality (which, in my experience, a lot of lawyers are).

 

[Treesy19]

Mr Myers says Letby has not searched for things on 'air embolus', or 'forcing in air', or any 'fascination with what's alleged here'.

She didn’t need to Ben, she had a whole training course in May 2015 that even covered air embolus.
I’ve not needed to Google things I’ve literally just been on a course for.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

To digress.
The fbookers are saying that BNE’s assertion that baby L received double the dose of insulin to that given to baby F is not the case.
Obviously doubling the dose would show intent to kill.
I’ve looked at the WIKI figures and the don’t, at face value, but then there are no units of measurement to evaluate differences.
What’s happening??

 

[Sloppys]

All BM had to do is prove a little bit of doubt in the Jury’s mind. For example - the other collapses when LL wasn’t present etc. I’m not saying she’s innocent but it’s defiantly a heavy crown for the jury to wear isn’t it… they have to be fully convinced it was her malicious actions.

 

[LittleMy]

Not read the write up or tattle. But honestly today was laughable on many occasions. He came across as clutching a lot and it was almost patronising in places too, I was worried some opinions would be turned but actually no, in person it didn’t come across well

I saw someone on the FB group who was there (and in Guilty camp I believe) say pretty much the same as you have.
---

Well, therefore Mrs Darcy you are not a murderer … far too happy eating Freddos.

A serial killer’s chocolate of choice didn’t you know?

 

[abelleza]

I'm sure you've discussed this before, but I'm curious from any of m'learned friends on here about defence barristers and the cab rank rule - as I understand it, you have to take the case that's before you. I think this is an essential part of our justice system and even monsters deserve a fair trial. But I'm curious as to how it works if you're not convinced by their innocence, but if they've pled NG you still have to build a case for their defence? It must be very hard psychologically, especially if you're a 'winner' kind of personality (which, in my experience, a lot of lawyers are).

It doesn’t matter, you still have to defend them even if you think they’re guilty - EVERYONE is entitled to legal counsel now matter how much proof there is or how obvious it is that they’re guilty.
If they admit guilt to you whilst pleading innocence that’s a different story, then that’s a different story and you can no longer defend them.

 

[Ali88]

Mr Myers says Letby has not searched for things on 'air embolus', or 'forcing in air', or any 'fascination with what's alleged here'.

She didn’t need to Ben, she had a whole training course in May 2015 that even covered air embolus.
I’ve not needed to Google things I’ve literally just been on a course for.

Exactly, she shouldn’t even need to Google those terms at all as a qualified nurse, course or no course.

 

[PositivelyVonnegutesque]

Did someone say the defence closing was going to take a whole week? How's he going to stretch it out that long?!

 

[Deeznutslol]

To digress.
The fbookers are saying that BNE’s assertion that baby L received double the dose of insulin to that given to baby F is not the case.
Obviously doubling the dose would show intent to kill.
I’ve looked at the WIKI figures and the don’t, at face value, but then there are no units of measurement to evaluate differences.
What’s happening??View attachment 2267342

There has been a lot of confusion surrounding the units for the insulin due to poor reporting, but I believe that the units reported for insulin for child L are in mIU/L and F are in pmol/L. I checked how they perform the immunoassays for insulin and c-peptide at the Liverpool Hospital (which is where the sample was analyzed), and on their site and on the UKAS site, they say they do it using this device, the Cobas e601.

https://www.ukas.com/wp-content/uploads/schedule_uploads/00007/9785-Medical-Multiple.pdf

According to the manufacturer who makes this machine, it’s upper detection limit for insulin is 1000 mU/L (equivalent to 6945 pmol/L).

https://labogids.sintmaria.be/sites/default/files/files/insulin_2017-06_v15.pdf

Dr Anna Milan said that the reading for baby L the result was ‘so high it was at the top of the scale the equipment was capable of measuring’, which suggests that the 1099 value recorded is in mIU/L, as 1000 mIU/L is the highest concentration that the machine can record. If we assume that the reading for baby F was given in pmol/L, then 4657 pmol/L is equal to 776 mIU/L (or 670 mIU/L which is the old conversion factor, it recently changed). So it’d make sense as to why NJ said that the reading for the insulin conc was higher for baby L than in baby F.

It’s really confusing and the poor reporting hasn’t helped, but hopefully this will be clarified tomorrow and it is BM who is confused with the units and that’s why he thinks the prosecution have got it wrong, rather than NJ being confused.

 

[slingo16]

So am I right in thinking there are just 4 crashes involving these children when LL isn’t around?

 

[mrs.darcy]

I've always been a glass half empty kinda person and I am really worried that BM is planting sufficient doubt in the jury's mind that they will return a NG verdict.

NJ did such a good job last week knitting it all together but by the time the jury retires a lot of time will have passed.

Maybe I'm just worrying too much (and too soon).

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Wow, thanks for that comprehensive explanation. Much of which is going over my head.
Why would this interpretation error, if that’s what it is, be allowed to stand, without clarification, for nearly the entire trial? It seems pretty important to get those figures right.
Can BNE raise this to clarify?

 

[Deeznutslol]

Wow, thanks for that comprehensive explanation. Much of which is going over my head.
Why would this interpretation error, if that’s what it is, be allowed to stand, without clarification, for nearly the entire trial? It seems pretty important to get those figures right.
Can BNE raise this to clarify?

I don’t think it’s the prosecution who are confused, it’s BM and the defence who are confused.
Unfortunately this isn’t something which is easy to understand or explain to a layperson, hindmarsh did explain all of the calculations and but NJ told him to chill as it was confusing the jury lol.

I don’t know how the court works exactly and this is just a theory, but hopefully there will be some sort of clarification, either tomorrow or at the end of the defences closing statements if there has indeed been confusion with the units.
I think it’s pretty unlikely that the confusion has come from the prosecution given they’ve got people like hindmarsh, milan and evans to refer to.

 

[MmmB777]

So am I right in thinking there are just 4 crashes involving these children when LL isn’t around?

Nothing like crashes I don’t think! One of them for baby G was a projectile vomit. The dad had already said in his statement though that she had never done it before the date the first alleged attack (huge vomit onto chair and floor) happened but did on occasion have projectile vomits of less severity after. She was left severely brain damaged from the first attack so I’d say that really doesn’t add any doubt at all.

thanks @nosycowmoo we appreciate you taking some time for your write up this evening

@docmum I had my Greek salad! It was soo good but probably because I’d been thinking about it all day thanks to you hope yours was nice.X

 

[gimmethattea]

On page 29 and discussing the idea of being full.

Ben, guess what. When my son was in NICU, it was almost full. Which is why they were a bit reluctant to admit him initially until they did a blood gas.

When he was readmitted at 2 weeks to the children's ward, we waited in a cubicle in the children's emergency department for 14+ hours, because the children's ward was full.

In my son's 7 days at the NICU and 13 days on the children's ward, both of which were either full or almost full, no one's suboptimal care caused a collapse or death. And I'll be honest and say sometimes, things were late happening, when cannulas failed, he missed antibiotic doses waiting for new ones, sometimes they didn't always notice my son had been sick in his cot in NICU and sometimes, we didn't get the best care. They were absolutely rushed off their feet though and they did the best they could in October/November.


But again, none of this resulted in serious collapses or death.

Also, no one was texting away on their phone or creepily hanging around either and no one was their when they weren't on shift.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

So am I right in thinking there are just 4 crashes involving these children when LL isn’t around?

Not crashes, no.

 

[Realitybites]

I have to keep telling myself he is doing his job reading through this. I was chatting about court (not this case) in work today and makes me wonder what BM really thinks of her outside of court.

Also the part about BM saying the methods of deaths changed with the babies…multiple serial killers change their methods over time. It comes with the confidence of thinking they won’t get caught and looking back it’s often what leads to their downfall. Hopefully LL’s too.