Yep and as someone else mentioned why would prosecution bring it up if defence are just going to come back with 'the parents asked them too?' I'm not disputing making memories and taking photographs happen but the way it was written didn't seem like it was done with consent which is why I made the point
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OT but straight up respect to you coz bloody hell, I don’t think I could handle 1 set of twins let alone 2 sets
Ha ha I'm yet to handle it. Twins are due in December so 16 months apart.
Does anyone think the ending of the note could actually say ‘torn and ‘irate’ rather than tom and mat?
What's insulting about something reminding me of something I saw with my own 2 eyes? Oh please. Just looking for something to be offended by.
I am in awe of you. My 13 month old twins are sending me insane, but the fact these are 6&7. Well, you are my hero
So she worked until 2011-2015 as a nurse with no murders. Why did she suddenly start spree killing in the summer of 2015? Something must have happened to her, you don't just suddenly start doing something so extreme. I do wonder if she had had an abortion and felt guilty and resented babies and parents. In some ways I can relate a little to that, having had an abortion myself, I couldn't bear being around mothers and babies, I resented the mothers. But obviously she is psychologically abnormal and it could have flipped a switch.
Makes me uneasy. Like the personal and professional boundaries are crossed.
You could say that about all serial killers tho. They all go along for years without killing and then they start lol. I’m sure there’s an external trigger sometimes. But not always.
You are automatically given legal aid once arrested- from vandalism right through to murder. Crown Court cases, especially ones like this one are always granted legal aid because all crown Court cases automatically pass the Interest of Justice test.
On terms of the picture of the babies she had taken. As someone said it would be weird if the parents didn’t ask for it. But I think there would be a good chance they would have forgotten asking/agreeing to it since they just lost their baby? Maybe said yes without really thinking?
Also what did she do with the photo? Someone said they have an app on the phone where they can upload pics of babies? Maybe she did it for that and forgot to delete it. I have a lot of random pictures on my phone and I never delete any. Maybe she forgot to delete and if scrolling quickly through she may just see two babies and not realise it’s them?
Also what did she do with the photo? Someone said they have an app on the phone where they can upload pics of babies? Maybe she did it for that and forgot to delete it. I have a lot of random pictures on my phone and I never delete any. Maybe she forgot to delete and if scrolling quickly through she may just see two babies and not realise it’s them?
Things lead up to it though. There are usually small signs. She literally trained as a nurse, got a degree, and BAM starts murdering the babies. Im sorry but I think something happened to her in 2015.
thank you! I have worked in legal aid and keep telling commenters that she will be legally aided and no one is listening lol
I did originally think it said Torn as well but I then read the second as Matt. Went back and saw Tom and thought it matched with what’s above
This may have been mentioned sorry I’m just catching up on the thread.
The note.. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them
Just thinking about the police digging up the garden.
Did she have pets? Had she done done something to them maybe and buried them and the police were looking for evidence
isn’t there a link with serial killers often starting with animals
The note.. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them
Just thinking about the police digging up the garden.
Did she have pets? Had she done done something to them maybe and buried them and the police were looking for evidence
isn’t there a link with serial killers often starting with animals
On Matt do you not think the final T looks more like an e? I originally thought it said mate
I think Lucy’s response to this letter in police interviews will be really important. If she says she can’t remember writing it like she said about the Facebook searches then I would not find her very credible.
I agree it’s not a confession and it’s clearly someone distressed, desperate and panicked, but that can also be explained with panic about being caught.
I am seeing more guilt in this note than innocence and that’s because I am struggling to get past someone innocent writing “I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them and I am a horrible evil person. I am evil. I did this.” No matter how distressed you were at thinking you were being wrongly accused, I just can’t see a reasonable explanation for someone innocent writing this.
The legal standard for finding some guilty is beyond reasonable doubt. It’s not no doubt at all.
I know PP are exploring alternative reasons to why she may have wrote this but it’s not passing the reasonableness test to me. It’s reasonable to think a guilty person would write they have done nothing wrong. It’s not reasonable (to me) for an innocent person to write they killed someone on purpose.
As I’ve said in previous posts I am prepared to change my view if I hear enough evidence and I think hearing Lucy’s explanation for this is what would sway it if at all. But that’s my interpretation of the note.
I agree it’s not a confession and it’s clearly someone distressed, desperate and panicked, but that can also be explained with panic about being caught.
I am seeing more guilt in this note than innocence and that’s because I am struggling to get past someone innocent writing “I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them and I am a horrible evil person. I am evil. I did this.” No matter how distressed you were at thinking you were being wrongly accused, I just can’t see a reasonable explanation for someone innocent writing this.
The legal standard for finding some guilty is beyond reasonable doubt. It’s not no doubt at all.
I know PP are exploring alternative reasons to why she may have wrote this but it’s not passing the reasonableness test to me. It’s reasonable to think a guilty person would write they have done nothing wrong. It’s not reasonable (to me) for an innocent person to write they killed someone on purpose.
As I’ve said in previous posts I am prepared to change my view if I hear enough evidence and I think hearing Lucy’s explanation for this is what would sway it if at all. But that’s my interpretation of the note.
I've read previously she doted on her cats. And seen her FB profile someone has posted and the background photo is 2 ginger and white cats on a cat bed next to patio door.
It’s unusual for it to be taken off her personal phone though. I’ve worked across the country and most places have specific camera for this, or disposable cameras or trust photography take photos. From recollection those apps used disable when an infant dies. she also noted the twins death in her diary. I think personal and professionals lines were blurred
Sorry I meant twisting from the prosecution not the poster. Them trying to twist something that could be proven as innocent really easily by the defence is worse than the kind of twisting the Mail do for headlines, and I think it would be stupid of them to do it if the defence turn round and say the parents asked her to take a photo.
P: and she is so sick she took a photo of dead babies
D: it was for the parents (easily proven with phone records of whose phone it was on and/or where it was sent)
I don’t think the prosecution would risk the credibility of the rest of their evidence just to squeeze that in, because they will know the answer. I think the photo should be easy evidence either way.
We will have to wait and see though as I agree with everyone there is no context in the report.
Thank you so much, this is actually amazing advice I will absolutely be taking forwardPlease be kind to yourself.
As health care professionals we always have situations that on reflection we wish we had dealt with differently.
I always think, I have been in that situation, it turned out fine, it has prepared me for future situations that could end differently if I didn’t go through that experience. I hope that makes sense. And then you can start to think more positively about them.
Please don’t compare yourself to someone who has been accused of such heinous crimes.
There are two tests for legal aid. The interests of justice (i.e. is their case strong enough to warrant legal aid). Where a person's liberty is at stake this is automatically passed.
After that there is means testing and she will likely have to make a contribution until her savings / assets are depleted to the threshold.
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