Lucy Letby Case #32

[Londonlady68]

It seems to me that she knows she has no explaination (apart from the obvious) for any of the prosecution's questions and has plead NG to drag this horrific case out.
She knows she's going to prison for the rest of her life and is enjoying the attention. She gets to get out of her cell and interact with other people instead of being locked up on her own.
Enjoy it whilst it lasts Lucy, you ducked up waste of oxygen.

 

[YellowTail]

I really think she'll tie herself up in knots and prove herself guilty but not that she'll admit or confess (although I reeeaaalllyy want that to happen for the sake of those poor parents). She knows she is messing up already and she can't escape it now (other than many many many breaks). Part of me also thinks that she is actually completely delusional and has somehow started to believe the lies she's telling herself. After all she's had years and years to perfect them. I think her error is not realising just how many lies she's having to cover. I imagine she's well rehearsed for some things but some others (the shredder for example) she hasn't seen coming.

I agree, I’ve been following the trial via websleuths. I went into this with an open mind, and started with a NG mindset. If I was on the jury I’d would be finding her guilty. There’s too much evidence that has led to me thinking she’s guilty of all charges. Despite what internal response her being cross examined and challenged by Nick may have caused her to need a break, and the judges decision to call time until Wednesday. I think the penny has dropped for her that not only is she never returning to nursing, (I think she still somehow believed that was a possibility) I think she has realised it is game over, she will be headed for prison. I believe she genuinely could not face the veiled threats of, ‘we will come to that’ regarding fabrication of patient records, inappropriately imprinting live but a dying baby’s footprints etc. She knows she is done for, her curated mask of ‘lovely Lucy’ has been removed. I do not think for one second she will change her plea to not guilty. She is too arrogant.
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I really thought we would hear about Baby E today and I bet his parents did too. Now they have to wait until Wednesday. She will know what’s coming now she’s had two days with Our Nick. I don’t know how she’s going to be able to worm her way out of dismissing his mum’s testimony.

She will not want to be cross examined on her evidence v the mother’s testimony. It is one thing to state a former colleague is wrong and has a vendetta, but to argue against a deceased baby’s mother will be foolhardy and the final nail in her defence. Why did she take the stand, so arrogant.

 

[Londonlady68]

I agree she actually believed she could return to nursing after being found NG. Noticed when talking about her job she often stated things in the present tense.
I wanted to believe she was NG but she really has no defence at all, has she?
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I agree, I’ve been following the trial via websleuths. I went into this with an open mind, and started with a NG mindset. If I was on the jury I’d would be finding her guilty. There’s too much evidence that has led to me thinking she’s guilty of all charges. Despite what internal response her being cross examined and challenged by Nick may have caused her to need a break, and the judges decision to call time until Wednesday. I think the penny has dropped for her that not only is she never returning to nursing, (I think she still somehow believed that was a possibility) I think she has realised it is game over, she will be headed for prison. I believe she genuinely could not face the veiled threats of, ‘we will come to that’ regarding fabrication of patient records, inappropriately imprinting live but a dying baby’s footprints etc. She knows she is done for, her curated mask of ‘lovely Lucy’ has been removed. I do not think for one second she will change her plea to not guilty. She is too arrogant.
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She will not want to be cross examined on her evidence v the mother’s testimony. It is one thing to state a former colleague is wrong and has a vendetta, but to argue against a deceased baby’s mother will be foolhardy and the final nail in her defence. Why did she take the stand, so arrogant.

Her arrogance made her have to take the stand despite being 100% guilty.
I feel sorry for her barrister. I hope he secretly despises her too.

 

[YellowTail]

She's really not doing herself any favours with this, or with the silly provable lies (e.g. I don't own a shredder, I don't know what an air embolism is). This is a case with no smoking gun evidence so the verdict is partly going to come down to which side is more believable. She's just not coming across as very trustworthy.

I’ve worked in a hospital, unfortunately sometimes a handover sheet does end up leaving the premises in a pocket. The normal response is, ‘oh tit’ and then take it into work the day after you have discovered you’ve taken it home and add to a shredder.

A nurse holding multiple sheets of paper, (‘accidentally’ taken home handover sheets for example) would not be noticed by anyone. She could have disposed of them at any point, even from the point of first being suspected, when she forgot she had a shredder, presumably forgot she could burn them at home and presumably forgot she could tear into bits and flush them down the loo at home. Of course she chose not to, as they were significant to her, trophies?
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It’s the way she kept on at her colleague, going on about how it’s absolutely not suspicious that the babies died, that’s a red flag if I ever saw one

Yes, dutiful (innocent) Lucy would surely have replied, you’re right, something strange is going on and I don’t know what. I am going to report my concerns to the ward manager, as I’m also worried by these unexpected deaths. I suggest you do the same.

 

[Mysteryy]

Anyway, can anyone in the know confrm what level of observations she will be under? Will she be constantly monitored or because she's on remand will it be more relaxed?

In general, there will usually be the same ratio of staff to prisoners on both remand and convicted halls. Due to the nature of people on remand being more unpredictable, there can sometimes be increased monitoring (e.g. First night in custody, those suffering withdrawal, those going through or returning from trial).

The risk of self harm and or suicide in prisons is individually assessed. If a person is deemed to be at risk, they will undergo a multi disciplinary case conference to determine the level of risk, and make recommendations based on this in terms of frequency of observations (constant, 15, 30 or 60 mins), items allowed or prohibited (e.g. no sharps) and referrals for support.

After asking for a break at trial and the early finish, it's likely that the entertaining officers would highlight this to prison staff on return for consideration of the self-harming and suicide prevention strategy being initiated. If there was any suggestion or apparent risk at court, entertaining officers would commence observations there.

 

[YellowTail]

If nice Lucy is at Style, I'm sure she’ll find a new bff in Savannah Brockhill. I wouldn’t be requesting any breaks, I’d be desperate to remain in the courtroom and away from the terrifying inmates at Style, if I was NG of course!

 

[PositivelyVonnegutesque]

I can't stop thinking about the circumstances surrounding Baby E. I believe the mother when she said she heard the baby's cries/screams (that poor, poor baby) at 9pm and came in to find LL at a desk. How would a nurse, particularly one who sought constant reassurance about not being "good enough", not immediately run to a baby's cotside on hearing them in such distress?

What I would like to know is would LL be aware that Baby E's mother was due to come to bring her milk at 9pm, and if so, why did she choose that time to attack Baby E? What time did the mother contact her husband, ie can it be corroborated that she messaged him before 10pm, thus confirming LL fabricated the time?

Why was LL so cool and calm when the baby was bleeding? And I absolutely believe the baby's mother when she said this. Disagreeing with parents' testimony could be extremely damaging to defence.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I can't stop thinking about the circumstances surrounding Baby E. I believe the mother when she said she heard the baby's cries/screams (that poor, poor baby) at 9pm and came in to find LL at a desk. How would a nurse, particularly one who sought constant reassurance about not being "good enough", not immediately run to a baby's cotside on hearing them in such distress?

What I would like to know is would LL be aware that Baby E's mother was due to come to bring her milk at 9pm, and if so, why did she choose that time to attack Baby E? What time did the mother contact her husband, ie can it be corroborated that she messaged him before 10pm, thus confirming LL fabricated the time?

Why was LL so cool and calm when the baby was bleeding? And I absolutely believe the baby's mother when she said this. Disagreeing with parents' testimony could be extremely damaging to defence.

She would be aware of when the feeds were due yes and would be aware that the baby was on expressed breast milk too.

I wonder if she enjoyed seeing the distress she caused the mother in that moment and enjoyed having the power to make her leave.

 

[itsmelilly]

I agree she actually believed she could return to nursing after being found NG. Noticed when talking about her job she often stated things in the present tense.
I wanted to believe she was NG but she really has no defence at all, has she?
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Her arrogance made her have to take the stand despite being 100% guilty.
I feel sorry for her barrister. I hope he secretly despises her too.

I find it so bizarre that she talks about nursing in the present tense, it gives me the chills.

 

[PositivelyVonnegutesque]

She would be aware of when the feeds were due yes and would be aware that the baby was on expressed breast milk too.

I wonder if she enjoyed seeing the distress she caused the mother in that moment and enjoyed having the power to make her leave.

Sadly, I think you may be right.

 

[YellowTail]

I know Lucy can’t speak to her barrister whilst she’s a witness, but I wonder how the calls with her parents are going. How are they reacting in court too, as I know they have attended every day.

 

[Tofino]

Bbcgjjjncc

This is a real point of interest for me. It does look like everyone is in an agreement that foul play was the only possible answer for the insulin. When your defence is based on people conspiring against you and the fact the hospitals failings causes all the other deaths. It’s a big ask of the jury to expect them to believe that there’s an attacker for the one charge that you just happened to not be present at.( I know she hung the bag or whatever I think her defence here is that she wasn’t present for the actual collapse) it has only been briefly skimmed over and could be a reporting error so I’d like to hear a little bit more detail but if she is conceding that and you couple it with all the obvious lies with the handover sheets. You’ve also got her odd memory, she’s trying to say she can remember “insignificant” babies names to search families on Facebook years later. But now she’s on trial for their murder, she suddenly can’t remember. That’s just not gonna wash is it. I think she’s in a bit of a hole.

and what have you done with @slingo16
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I had to do it darlings!!

hahahahhahaha

we are definitely the funniest thread in all the threads of thread land.



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I’m going off the chester standard and will add any additional info to their points an agreed fact was brought up, whereby LL had said she was in room 1. Sophie Ellis had also agreed that in her statement. LL said she disputes that. She has no memory of it. A lot of the next parts she also changed previous agreed facts. At one point the prosecution where she went back on the agreed facts he asked her if not recalling something meant that it did not happen, that just because you don’t remember it does not mean that the thing did not happen. For an example I dispute I was there, I disagree I wasn’t there, yet if you don’t recall that time how can you say you weren’t there. I’m not sure at which point exactly he said that

ohhhh I didn’t pick up that some statements and things are agreed facts by the defence and she’s now changing her story!!!

 

[nichew]

Manchester people what’s it like for blue badge parking near court ?

 

[Tofino]

Manchester people what’s it like for blue badge parking near court ?

there is a double yellow side road right outside court but obvs that won’t be long enough to stay the whole day. There is a small car park nearby on bridge st but I didn’t attempt it in case it was full and I parked at an extortionate NCP car park a 5-10 min walk away. I’m not sure if you can park on bridge street itself. I have a blue badge for my son and can usually park easily around the midland hotel but it’s a bit of a trek to the crown court from there.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

She would be aware of when the feeds were due yes and would be aware that the baby was on expressed breast milk too.

I wonder if she enjoyed seeing the distress she caused the mother in that moment and enjoyed having the power to make her leave.

I think she was maybe caught on the hop. Was there some EBM stored in the fridge? How long would it/could it be stored?
She recorded the feed was ‘omitted’ on a Dr’s advice but the Dr has no recollection of this.
Mum phoned dad at 09:11pm.
Would she be so brazen to hurt the baby when she knew mum was to arrive at any minute?

 

[tay65]

Yeah agree. I read something about psychopaths a few months back and killing or torturing an animal in childhood is a common theme. I don't think they see humans/animals as living beings they are just objects to them. I just keep thinking back to a documentary I watched on Brady and Hindley and them keeping some recordings of one of the victims screaming as a trophy. And photos of Hindley standing on one of the kids graves. The stuff yesterday about Letby taking her card back to work to photograph it where the baby died really really reminded me of that documentary

When questioned she said it's normal for her to photograph cards so this wasn't the first and only one she had taken a picture of. If that was the case she would have taken a picture after writing it not waiting until she went to work to do it.

I agree she actually believed she could return to nursing after being found NG. Noticed when talking about her job she often stated things in the present tense.
I wanted to believe she was NG but she really has no defence at all, has she?
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Her arrogance made her have to take the stand despite being 100% guilty.
I feel sorry for her barrister. I hope he secretly despises her too.

The only thing I like about LL is that she took the stand and hopefully sealed her own fate. We debated on here for so long would she or won't she and thank goodness she decided to testify.
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I find it so bizarre that she talks about nursing in the present tense, it gives me the chills.

Even if found NG It would be impossible to return to nursing. She would be answerable to the NMC for paperwork at home and for all the Facebook searches of babies and all the texting about babies and naming them. Lastly who would want to take the chance of entrusting their babies with her even if found NG. If she thought she could ever return to nursing she's deluded.

 

[Squishdoodle]

I think she was maybe caught on the hop. Was there some EBM stored in the fridge? How long would it/could it be stored?
She recorded the feed was ‘omitted’ on a Dr’s advice but the Dr has no recollection of this.
Mum phoned dad at 09:11pm.
Would she be so brazen to hurt the baby when she knew mum was to arrive at any minute?

I've not been following the thread really but EBM can do probably 3 days in a fridge and 6 months in the freezer. If the mum is pumping though due to the baby being in hospital she will need to pump on a roughly regular cycle

 

[Londonlady68]

When questioned she said it's normal for her to photograph cards so this wasn't the first and only one she had taken a picture of. If that was the case she would have taken a picture after writing it not waiting until she went to work to do it.

The only thing I like about LL is that she took the stand and hopefully sealed her own fate. We debated on here for so long would she or won't she and thank goodness she decided to testify.
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Even if found NG It would be impossible to return to nursing. She would be answerable to the NMC for paperwork at home and for all the Facebook searches of babies and all the texting about babies and naming them. Lastly who would want to take the chance of entrusting their babies with her even if found NG. If she thought she could ever return to nursing she's deluded.

I was completely on the fence regarding guilt but IMO she has sealed her own fate now. All we're hearing are denials and can't remembers. What a mess.
There is no defence.
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[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I think she was maybe caught on the hop. Was there some EBM stored in the fridge? How long would it/could it be stored?
She recorded the feed was ‘omitted’ on a Dr’s advice but the Dr has no recollection of this.
Mum phoned dad at 09:11pm.
Would she be so brazen to hurt the baby when she knew mum was to arrive at any minute?

I initially didn't think so but I'm starting to feel like she really could have been that sinister. The fact that I am now nearly 100% confident she was the nurse behind the "mistaken" call to Child A's mother has me looking at this situation in a different light.

But yes, the mother probably already had expressed breast milk in the fridge but I know I wore a path up and down the corridors dropping mine off after every expression I did while I was still in the hospital. I also kept to my babies schedule, she fed every 3hrs, so I expressed every 3hrs.

 

[tay65]

When questioned she said it's normal for her to photograph cards so this wasn't the first and only one she had taken a picture of. If that was the case she would have taken a picture after writing it not waiting until she went to work to do it.

The only thing I like about LL is that she took the stand and hopefully sealed her own fate. We debated on here for so long would she or won't she and thank goodness she decided to testify.
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Even if found NG It would be impossible to return to nursing. She would be answerable to the NMC for paperwork at home and for all the Facebook searches of babies and all the texting about babies and naming them. Lastly who would want to take the chance of entrusting their babies with her even if found NG. If she thought she could ever return to nursing she's deluded.

Actually I would like to add there are people who would be happy to entrust their babies with LL - the Facebook Group.