Lucy Letby Case #32

[Treesy19]

Yeah she can’t think much of her parents if she’s putting them through this charade as well. He looks of retirement age, not what you envisage your retirement doing is it.

 

[nichew]

there is a double yellow side road right outside court but obvs that won’t be long enough to stay the whole day. There is a small car park nearby on bridge st but I didn’t attempt it in case it was full and I parked at an extortionate NCP car park a 5-10 min walk away. I’m not sure if you can park on bridge street itself. I have a blue badge for my son and can usually park easily around the midland hotel but it’s a bit of a trek to the crown court from there.

Thanks for info. All the car parks only seem to be 2 hours when I’ve checked on line. And it’s knowing where the. Council disabled bays are when its not your town lol
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It will be interesting to see how many people come out of the wood work if she’s found guilty. Like old school/childhood friends boy friends etc to saying what she was like

 

[yellowmellow]

Does anyone else go back to page 46 of the last thread to relive the Tale of Two Nicks unfolding?

Haven’t been on here really today but yes

First thing I did. It’s unbelievable entertainment

 

[craig84]

Do you think this is to investigate any more possible attacks prior to our babies or to deal with the aftemath of the court case?

They're probably preparing in case she gets found not guilty or there is a hung jury and they need to go for a retrial.

 

[nosycowmoo]

In regards to LL being with baby C’s family on SEVERAL occasions she said she disagreed with the nurses statements saying she was there several times. She said she was there once then, said a few a couple of minutes later. She guessed she might have been doing the momentos. He asked her if that was normal to do while the baby is alive. LL said it could be before or after. He said it states it should be be afterwards on the paperwork, LL seemed annoyed and said well one baby (can’t remember the letter as they say actual names in court). That when one twin had passed they did the still alive twin babies hand and feet prints at the time, which is obviously a very different scenario with parents request and pointed this out to her. She said she didn’t recall the conversation about her being told to go out and look after the babies.
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In regards to LL being with baby C’s family on SEVERAL occasions she said she disagreed with the nurses statements saying she was there several times. She said she was there once then, said a few a couple of minutes later. She guessed she might have been doing the momentos. He asked her if that was normal to do while the baby is alive. LL said it could be before or after. He said it states it should be be afterwards on the paperwork, LL seemed annoyed and said well one baby (can’t remember the letter as they say actual names in court). That when one twin had passed they did the still alive twin babies hand and feet prints at the time, which is obviously a very different scenario with parents request and pointed this out to her. She said she didn’t recall the conversation about her being told to go out and look after the babies.

Child D was really interesting. He started by saying after the baby had passed did you feel like ‘it’s happened and that’s it, got to carry on’ she said no they were all really upset. He asked her to only talk about her feelings not everyone’s feelings. He then started reading statements about the rash, LL actually described the rash looking like suspected meningitis, then he said but you said you didn’t recall this baby to police in 2018, that you suddenly in 2023 remember the rash. She was slower to answer questions now and said that she didn’t recall all the details, not that she didn’t remember the baby. Yet her statement was that she had zero recollection. Yet she had Googled both parents up
To 3 months later. At this point he showed the messages that said exactly what he had started with, ‘it’s happened and that’s it, got to carry on’ she paused and said it wasn’t meant in that context.

Everything else she couldn’t recall. Didn’t remember or disputed… then she asked for a break and that was that

 

[craig84]

Yeah she can’t think much of her parents if she’s putting them through this charade as well. He looks of retirement age, not what you envisage your retirement doing is it.

I'm not sure of her moms age but its been reported that her dads in his late 70's so he had her quite late in his life. She's an only child that they probably thought they'd never have and now must wish they'd never had

 

[stv83]

Long time lurker to this thread, but had to jump in as have experience with NPD. Before we all feel sorry for her parents, could the parents not be partly responsible for how she has turned out? Aren't bad parenting styles part of the cause of Narcissistic personality disorder?

 

[Danica Catrick]

I know I’ve shared this before but I think it’s a very sad and interesting account from a nurse that worked with Allitt. All sounds very familiar.

Birmingham nurse recalls working with 'Angel Of Death' child killer Beverley Allitt

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Thank you. I hadn't read this before, but you're right it does sound very familiar. As well as the families of the babies, I keep thinking about Lucy's colleagues and the guilt they must feel for being taken in by her
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Actually I would like to add there are people who would be happy to entrust their babies with LL - the Facebook Group.

Even if I didn't believe her to be a baby killer I wouldn't trust her with my kids. She ignores babies crying, can't be trusted to follow instructions, and spends all her time messaging her mates or on social media when she's supposed to be looking after sick babies.

 

[raspberryjuice]

I initially didn't think so but I'm starting to feel like she really could have been that sinister. The fact that I am now nearly 100% confident she was the nurse behind the "mistaken" call to Child A's mother has me looking at this situation in a different light.

Agreed. I think the distress of the parents was a big part of it too. Things like constantly popping in and out of the room when they were saying goodbyes, the phone call, the trying to move the baby to the cold cot while they were clinging to life, hurting baby while parents were close by/due any minute, getting so involved in the bereavement pack etc. She was thriving on seeing the hurt she was causing.

 

[OldBlondie]

Holy tit. I think this is going to be far bigger than even us original guilty die hards could have imagined . Baby A was deffo not her first, but hopefully Q was her last ever. Also any tattlers planning on attending next week? As we’ve seen having some of us actually attending, is painting a far more fuller picture of what’s going on in there and has been invaluable. And he who should not be named Noris having been shown to be full of is a nice bonus

 

[gigilouxx]

If we put it aside that she’s hurt the babies, say she’s found NG
I wouldn’t want this little freak anywhere near my kids, lurking around creeping about at night like a burglar then searching people up on Facebook, texting her mates what the parents look like and what they’re doing Absolutely not a chance
I hate the phrase there’s no smoke without fire but in this case I think it’s applicable, she’d have people refusing to go into the hospitals she worked in so why she refers to what she does is beyond me, she’s not been nursing for around 5-6 years

 

[pissedandsad]

There's a risk taking element with most serial killers, but especially the health care serial killers so I wouldn't be surprised by her attempting to harm a baby minutes before their mother is due there. Could also have been tactical in that she could try to aportion blame on to the mother, or gives another reason for the demise of the baby.

Studies have shown psychpaths have decreased sensitivity to painful stimuli, inability to think of consequences and learn lessons (ie; their urges often override common sense - poor impulse control), and blunted emotional responses, thus, the need to escalate matters in order to experience “real feelings”. Given that negative emotions are some of the strongest known to man and some of the easiest to generate, it’s little surprise psychopaths gravitate towards the most heinous, risky, taboo sorts of acts - so much more living there for them than bland, law-abiding psychos experience. Still, they do know right from wrong, and society’s expectations, and many are highly functioning stockbrokers, politicians, stuntmen, etc. - things that require a certain ruthlessness, lack of fear, etc. I think those are ones mostly reared in decent families who have found a sort of strength in their make up, and the wherewithal to use it. Others are just the garden variety bullies in elementary school that bust the eggs in bird’s nests, kick dogs, and have dead eyes that give you chills. They mostly steer clear of the law or fly under the radar, even fooling some. So, yes, I think she would take a chance on poking the baby’s throat 5 minutes before Mom was due to deliver milk. I also think it would be a cheap & easy thrill to dial the other mother during resus. She is a monster, folks & I am so glad she has been stopped. Now for justice!
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As horrible as the post is going to sound, I think she was experimenting so had no idea how this baby was going to react/present after what she did so I think that’s why she’s also not thought much about how close it was to mum coming. I’m not sure she banked on baby reacting how they did & I do think there was some fascination in how they reacted to what she did so in my mind, I can completely imagine her losing all sense of time/whoever was due to come & literally just be stood there almost in awe of what she’s just done

This, too! I am amazed at how often you guys verbalize a thought I have had.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

In regards to LL being with baby C’s family on SEVERAL occasions she said she disagreed with the nurses statements saying she was there several times. She said she was there once then, said a few a couple of minutes later. She guessed she might have been doing the momentos. He asked her if that was normal to do while the baby is alive. LL said it could be before or after. He said it states it should be be afterwards on the paperwork, LL seemed annoyed and said well one baby (can’t remember the letter as they say actual names in court). That when one twin had passed they did the still alive twin babies hand and feet prints at the time, which is obviously a very different scenario with parents request and pointed this out to her. She said she didn’t recall the conversation about her being told to go out and look after the babies.
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Child D was really interesting. He started by saying after the baby had passed did you feel like ‘it’s happened and that’s it, got to carry on’ she said no they were all really upset. He asked her to only talk about her feelings not everyone’s feelings. He then started reading statements about the rash, LL actually described the rash looking like suspected meningitis, then he said but you said you didn’t recall this baby to police in 2018, that you suddenly in 2023 remember the rash. She was slower to answer questions now and said that she didn’t recall all the details, not that she didn’t remember the baby. Yet her statement was that she had zero recollection. Yet she had Googled both parents up
To 3 months later. At this point he showed the messages that said exactly what he had started with, ‘it’s happened and that’s it, got to carry on’ she paused and said it wasn’t meant in that context.

Everything else she couldn’t recall. Didn’t remember or disputed… then she asked for a break and that was that

Thank you for this insight, very very interesting. Nick is very good at making his points, even to Lucy herself!

 

[Caledonianprincess]

I am quite pleased to almost end the thread on a nice note of my waters have finally broken themselves as well. Not before time as well as that was a 24hr pessary and a 6hr gel. But fear not wee man this is your mother you are being evicted I'm ready to meet you at last (spoken a la davina mccalls big brother eviction speech)

 

[raspberryjuice]

I am quite pleased to almost end the thread on a nice note of my waters have finally broken themselves as well. Not before time as well as that was a 24hr pessary and a 6hr gel. But fear not wee man this is your mother you are being evicted I'm ready to meet you at last (spoken a la davina mccalls big brother eviction speech)

Good luck @Caledonianprincess, hope little man is in your arms soon

 

[Mysteryy]

Long time lurker to this thread, but had to jump in as have experience with NPD. Before we all feel sorry for her parents, could the parents not be partly responsible for how she has turned out? Aren't bad parenting styles part of the cause of Narcissistic personality disorder?

I'd say this is a yes and no situation.

Yes, their parenting style and LL's early childhood experiences may have contributed to what we are seeing as being narcissistic traits. There hasn't been any suggestion of her having PD assessment though, so all of this is only based on the limited information we've been privy to, so it doesn't even mean that she meets the threshold for NPD, same for psychopathy.

However, let's say she does have NPD and her parent's parenting style was problematic in that she was treated in a way that led her to believe she was better than others and deserved special treatment etc. I wouldn't imagine that the parents treatment of LL would have been done with the intention of making her a serial killer. They may have mollycoddled their only child and thought she was the best thing since sliced bread like a lot of parents do with their children.

A lot of people with NPD don't go on to allegedly murder or attempted to murder 17 babies though. There is still freedom of choice there.

 

[JCMSadie]

In regards to LL being with baby C’s family on SEVERAL occasions she said she disagreed with the nurses statements saying she was there several times. She said she was there once then, said a few a couple of minutes later. She guessed she might have been doing the momentos. He asked her if that was normal to do while the baby is alive. LL said it could be before or after. He said it states it should be be afterwards on the paperwork, LL seemed annoyed and said well one baby (can’t remember the letter as they say actual names in court). That when one twin had passed they did the still alive twin babies hand and feet prints at the time, which is obviously a very different scenario with parents request and pointed this out to her. She said she didn’t recall the conversation about her being told to go out and look after the babies.
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Child D was really interesting. He started by saying after the baby had passed did you feel like ‘it’s happened and that’s it, got to carry on’ she said no they were all really upset. He asked her to only talk about her feelings not everyone’s feelings. He then started reading statements about the rash, LL actually described the rash looking like suspected meningitis, then he said but you said you didn’t recall this baby to police in 2018, that you suddenly in 2023 remember the rash. She was slower to answer questions now and said that she didn’t recall all the details, not that she didn’t remember the baby. Yet her statement was that she had zero recollection. Yet she had Googled both parents up
To 3 months later. At this point he showed the messages that said exactly what he had started with, ‘it’s happened and that’s it, got to carry on’ she paused and said it wasn’t meant in that context.

Everything else she couldn’t recall. Didn’t remember or disputed… then she asked for a break and that was that

She really is tripping herself up, no wonder she wanted break.

Thank you for this!

 

[MmmB777]

That's the thing that people like LL will never understand or care about. Her victims go far and beyond. You've got all those poor families and babies, the surviving ones that may have to deal with their own trauma or survivors guilt, people potentially knowing who the babies are and that being their life forever more.

The families that will always wonder if they may have had LL caring for their babies. The nurses, doctors and professionals that will question if they did enough. Her parents for wondering what went wrong or what could have been different. Her friends who stood by her unknowing of her actions.

The police that have had to investigate this for years and will have seen and heard things no one should have to. The courts. The lawyers. The jury who've had to listen and process with their heads, while silencing their hearts but remembering they are still human.

The people not involved but have been triggered by this case. Those with babies in neonatal or any hospital care, wondering if they are truly safe. The prison, court and health care workers that have to do their job while questioning how there can be someone so cruel in their midst. The public that can't comprehend how someone could do this, and hug their kids just that bit tighter every night.

This case has hit us all hard and it must be beyond frustrating for those involved to see that LL has only ever shed tears for herself, not all of the people affected by this. Her continuing to behave in a way that shows she only cares for herself is not surprising, but just as sickening.

Urgh this is what hurts my heart. As some of you may have been able to tell, I went down another Beverly Allitt rabbit hole yesterday, I was trying to find old articles detailing her defence. Exactly the same stuff really, how poorly the children were and that this explains them going into sudden cardiac arrest, that a tube had been inserted slightly wrong so of course everything is the other Staff’s fault, that the child with epilepsy would always be about to just die .
The Dr that tried to raise suspicions cried in court describing losing the 8 week old baby that he had just checked on and could see had improved just before. He described his shock at not being able to get a response when trying to start their hearts. The defence got him to conceded how poorly certain children were and he said yes but that condition doesn’t mean you just stop breathing.
I found a talk he had given recently to a group of other doctors from Sri Lanka, it’s long so I did skim it a bit. He chokes up when going through what it was like for staff (30 years on ). He said they had no counselling. No support. They had to be “sub-judice” which meant not speaking to anybody about any of it from the time the investigation started to the end of the trial. So they couldn’t even get support from each other.
The senior hospital sister committed suicide and the ward sister attempted suicide I am really worried something like that might happen in this case

 

[DellaC]

In regards to LL being with baby C’s family on SEVERAL occasions she said she disagreed with the nurses statements saying she was there several times. She said she was there once then, said a few a couple of minutes later. She guessed she might have been doing the momentos. He asked her if that was normal to do while the baby is alive. LL said it could be before or after. He said it states it should be be afterwards on the paperwork, LL seemed annoyed and said well one baby (can’t remember the letter as they say actual names in court). That when one twin had passed they did the still alive twin babies hand and feet prints at the time, which is obviously a very different scenario with parents request and pointed this out to her. She said she didn’t recall the conversation about her being told to go out and look after the babies.
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Child D was really interesting. He started by saying after the baby had passed did you feel like ‘it’s happened and that’s it, got to carry on’ she said no they were all really upset. He asked her to only talk about her feelings not everyone’s feelings. He then started reading statements about the rash, LL actually described the rash looking like suspected meningitis, then he said but you said you didn’t recall this baby to police in 2018, that you suddenly in 2023 remember the rash. She was slower to answer questions now and said that she didn’t recall all the details, not that she didn’t remember the baby. Yet her statement was that she had zero recollection. Yet she had Googled both parents up
To 3 months later. At this point he showed the messages that said exactly what he had started with, ‘it’s happened and that’s it, got to carry on’ she paused and said it wasn’t meant in that context.

Everything else she couldn’t recall. Didn’t remember or disputed… then she asked for a break and that was that

Wow.
Can I just ask....did you hear Ben Myers sobbing at all? 🫠

 

[nosycowmoo]

Wow.
Can I just ask....did you hear Ben Myers sobbing at all? 🫠

No ha ha, inside I guess he was! my gosh all I could think was she was digging herself a hole so big she was about to reach Australia. I can’t remember exactly at which part but he even asked her a question in so many ways she wasn’t answering so he said ok so I’ll take that as you’re refusing to answer. Between that and the changing wording or denying the agreed facts saying she’d never heard it before (even though it was read out in court) it wasn’t good no wonder she wanted a break, she was tripping herself up so many times, I was on the fence… till yesterday
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No ha ha, inside I guess he was! my gosh all I could think was she was digging herself a hole so big she was about to reach Australia. I can’t remember exactly at which part but he even asked her a question in so many ways she wasn’t answering so he said ok so I’ll take that as you’re refusing to answer. Between that and the changing wording or denying the agreed facts saying she’d never heard it before (even though it was read out in court) it wasn’t good no wonder she wanted a break, she was tripping herself up so many times, I was on the fence… till yesterday

Oh and at one point he said at what point between it being read out at the beginning of the trial and now did you decide you wanted to change your answer and she was just like