and if she answers no (which I think she would because she’s denying absolutely everything) I think it would not be believable ! Adding to the list of things she’s said that are not credible.
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I could only dream #queentofinoofwikidom 🩷 we also hang out on the Louise Thompson thread and both have Louise Thompson profile pics
I think you would have been good at it.see, I see this totally differently. His belief in her guilt/innocence is no different to us here, he is a human capable of logical thought and opinion. The small details he presents are fact, they may be cleverly given in context to make it seem more loaded to his argument but let’s face it the prosecution will have manipulated some facts to sound worse than they were in context (some of her texts for example - please don’t take this as me downplaying the seriousness of other actions). we have a justice system that prides itself on giving a fair trial, and it’s important for everyone involved - if I was a colleague or a parent, I’d want to know a bloody good argument had happened from both camps to make sure that a verdict was justified and right. I’d want to know that no one could ever try to say she had been any kind of victim here.
If she is guilty, the facts of the trial speak for themselves - the KC is merely ensuring they are debated and nothing around those facts is misleading or missed.
Which brings me on to the other mentioned topic of how it would feel for any NG charges. This has been the forefront of my mind all along tbh, I know I can’t even imagine what the parents are going through but what really is justice in this case? Justice for the case as a whole with her being locked up/key thrown away - absolutely. Justice for all involved to ensure there is an NHS review and culture change - yes. But nothing reverses the harm or brings those angels back. For me, an overall verdict and the points above are what I would want - but of course that’s my personal stance.
ffs. I wish I had done law instead
You are absolutely right.see, I see this totally differently. His belief in her guilt/innocence is no different to us here, he is a human capable of logical thought and opinion. The small details he presents are fact, they may be cleverly given in context to make it seem more loaded to his argument but let’s face it the prosecution will have manipulated some facts to sound worse than they were in context (some of her texts for example - please don’t take this as me downplaying the seriousness of other actions). we have a justice system that prides itself on giving a fair trial, and it’s important for everyone involved - if I was a colleague or a parent, I’d want to know a bloody good argument had happened from both camps to make sure that a verdict was justified and right. I’d want to know that no one could ever try to say she had been any kind of victim here.
If she is guilty, the facts of the trial speak for themselves - the KC is merely ensuring they are debated and nothing around those facts is misleading or missed.
Which brings me on to the other mentioned topic of how it would feel for any NG charges. This has been the forefront of my mind all along tbh, I know I can’t even imagine what the parents are going through but what really is justice in this case? Justice for the case as a whole with her being locked up/key thrown away - absolutely. Justice for all involved to ensure there is an NHS review and culture change - yes. But nothing reverses the harm or brings those angels back. For me, an overall verdict and the points above are what I would want - but of course that’s my personal stance.
ffs. I wish I had done law instead
Please repost this later when I'm ranting about the big gobshite!!
Sorry if this has already been answered - I am often privy to these types of conversations in my job. The medical staff speak to each other, often including the Nurses in Charge to decide if the baby is ok to go back to a lower level unit. The referring hospital (Alder Hey in this case) cannot force the receiving hospital (COCH in this case) to accept anything. The transport team will have a patch they cover, which includes lots of level 1,2 and 3 hospitals, so they can always try elsewhere, or go out of region. It also sometimes happens that a baby has been accepted, then we get a phone call to say actually they cannot take baby now because of staffing, skills mix, medical history etc, or even sometimes parents decline the transfer. We see babies going from lower level centres, to higher level centres and back again all the time. The baby would never have gone back to COCH if the medical and nursing staff weren't happy to accept it and fully aware of the history.
Dan has started
My take on this is she was most likely balls deep in the resus and ran to get something from another unit. A piece of equipment that wasn’t to hand or something. It doesn’t mean she wasn’t there at the time of deterioration.
thanks. I suppose I’m thinking that alder hey would not have contacted a L2 hospital if they felt baby still needed to be in a L3. I know L2 hospital still need to be responsible and say if staffing and skill mix is suitable for the baby at that point in time but defence seem to be suggesting the baby should never have been at a L2 hospital full stop. So that also would fall on AH not just COCH. Hope I’m making sense!
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Chester Standard live link
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, May 17 - defence continues
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
One concern I have is that the jury may not have any kind of comprehensive document like we have thanks to @Tofino, sounds silly but obv we have no idea who they are, what kind of notes they have taken (hopefully tit tonnes) and whether they can refer back to stuff like this and see so very clearly how it doesn’t add up. I know they will have the prosecutions version of events etc but when it’s written so clearly here, I feel whenever I think oh @avabella that’s an interesting point, the facts always come back and speak for themselves like a beacon. But what if the jury don’t have it spelled out as clearly? Do you know what I mean?
She thinks a baptism was offered to child N. Do we have the parents’ statement on the wiki? Couldn’t find it after just having a browse then.
yes this worries me. But they do have the neonatal review chart (did you see it when you went? Like a big spreadsheet) and I presume they have copies of all the formal statements. What I don’t think they get is transcripts of what’s said on the stand.
I definitely felt it just on that one visit. Really frustrating to not be able to refer back and the jurors have the bundles but you don’t want to be flicking through them and miss what is being said on the stand. I really think deliberation is going to take a very long time because they will have to save all the cross checking that we are doing now, until then!
Yeah I get you - Level 3 hospitals are notorious for always being full to capacity and moving babies out to create beds for more serious cases, but honestly, they take care to identify who can be moved. If this little one needed to stay at a level 3, they would try other level 3s in the area or even go out of region. I'm not sure of the exact patch area for that transport team, but they're ideally geographically placed for availability.thanks. I suppose I’m thinking that alder hey would not have contacted a L2 hospital if they felt baby still needed to be in a L3. I know L2 hospital still need to be responsible and say if staffing and skill mix is suitable for the baby at that point in time but defence seem to be suggesting the baby should never have been at a L2 hospital full stop. So that also would fall on AH not just COCH. Hope I’m making sense!
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Chester Standard live link
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, May 17 - defence continues
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…www.chesterstandard.co.uk
I fixed it .. they were there it was the heading links that weren’t right so they were not showing in the contents.
They have the ipads and are given the relevant medical information ie what x procedure is and what it typically looks like etc. I am sure they will have been briefed and have the facilities to make the necessary notes and cross references, the deliberations can take ages as well can't they, I'm sure they have what they need although no method is perfect this will absolutely have been considered in a complex case.
OMG Tof I’ve always wondered who your pic is of, I really think that’s you everytime I see youwe also hang out on the Louise Thompson thread and both have Louise Thompson profile pics
Thank you! Wow so Dad’s statement is interesting isn’t it. No urgency from letby. “He’s been a bit unwell in the night” and they turn up to find him looking seriously unwell with blood all round his mouth. A baby that had no problems at all and then was very close to death. A rapid recovery according to the doc at alder hey, 48hrs and he was out of intensive care. What problem could that have been I wonder
This is the picture in fullAlso just f
OMG Tof I’ve always wondered who your pic is of, I really think that’s you everytime I see you
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