Lucy Letby Case #30

[Cheddar Chalpupa]

Ah I didn't realise the swipe data only shows entry, assume that's because you only have to press a button to leave?

I know it sounds like trying to defend my guilty stance but the only door data I would believe would be the first one of a shift, unless they have her exiting a different ward a few mins before the 1:15 swipe I don't think it proves anything tbh. Easy enough to open a door and then swipe back in within seconds to give yourself an alibi.

 

[yellowmellow]

Poor Les Dennis. Imagine him Googling himself and these threads come up

Honestly just expecting her to come out with that she wasn't there, has never heard of any of these babies, never worked at the hospital and isn't even a nurse at this point.

 

[MmmB777]

Actually the professor just said “no” not that it’s unlikely. Nope. Spontaneous bleed didn’t happen. Really annoying to have had such crap reporting for a lot of the expert witness evidence!

 

[thaliamay]

What in the smudge tiny boy duck is this, daily court this week? I'd no idea so a nice surprise.

 

[Tofino]

All door swipe data actually proves is that your card has been used to swipe the door in that moment (1.15am in this case). A door that’s meters away from where you have been working for 5+hrs and meters from where baby collapsed. It does not prove Lucy’s location at 1am. It does not prove which direction she was coming from and going to at 1.15am. It’s far from proving she wasn’t there at all because there is no evidence of her leaving the unit or being anywhere else. in fact it’s extremely weak.

If there was a door swipe record at a different part of the hospital for just before or after 1am and it would be physically impossible to get back to NNU for the 1am then that would be strong evidence she was not there. But that doesn’t exist.

ben myers didn’t even bloody ask her where she had been fgs.

 

[tay65]

As always, you're right.

It's a very tense time though isn't it? I am dreading hearing about the triplets
---

I know it's his job so don't come for me people but how the duck could he live with himself of he got a baby murderer off?

I know he's doing his job defending her by way of a fair trial but if he believes she is guilty and gets her off (mainly by casting doubt by way of small details) then he cannot have much of a conscience. Perhaps after years of doing this type of work he's become desensitized.

 

[docmum]

I’ve not caught up to be fair. But if BM is saying ‘her swipe data shows she wasn’t there’ - how can anyone then say ‘that means nothing to me’ - it’s door data

Ok caught up somewhat, damn parenting duties!

This seems pretty clear cut to me, what did the prosecution say about it?


'The event is recorded for Child N at 1am. Swipe data is shown that Letby entered the neonatal unit at 1.15am. The court has heard swipe data is collected when staff members enter the unit, not exit'.

So are the prosecution (or those who believe guilt), alleging that she has harmed baby N, left the unit and then returned at 1.15am?

door swipe doesn’t prove she wasn’t there though, she could have swiped the door to let a family in/out for example but stayed on the ward. Might get picked up under cross examination?

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I know he's doing his job defending her by way of a fair trial but if he believes she is guilty and gets her off (mainly by casting doubt by way of small details) then he cannot have much of a conscience. Perhaps after years of doing this type of work he's become desensitized.

I say he has but I really cannot fault him for what he's doing. He's clever and I appreciate that he probably doesn't have much to work with in this case so has gone down the confusion route. Him doing what he does ensures the whole process works and prevents her getting a retrial because she's not being represented adequately.

I get angry at him but he also fascinates me, genuinely clever people do, I'd love to be part of his team and see the inner workings of it and his mind if I'm honest

 

[avabella]

door swipe doesn’t prove she wasn’t there though, she could have swiped the door to let a family in/out for example but stayed on the ward. Might get picked up under cross examination?

I hope so - I don't think the Dr that attended that first time has been questioned has she? She'd know who called for help surely?

 

[Motherofpugs]

What are we thinking Tattlers, defence will wrap up the remaining babies today, cross examination tomorrow?

I’d better get some snackies in for Thursday and Friday

 

[MmmB777]

I hope so - I don't think the Dr that attended that first time has been questioned has she? She'd know who called for help surely?

Yes she has and no she didn’t remember. We know it wasn’t CB, the designated nurse, as he was on a break.

 

[tay65]

I am curious to know whether people who were feeling unsure / NG think Lucy made the right decision taking the stand or not.


I’m curious about the 1.15am swipe card. To me it doesn’t prove she wasn’t around, because we don’t know what time she left the unit. Or how long she was gone for. I can also believe someone trying to cover their crimes might do that mid shift.

For me it’s very telling that Ben Myers didn’t even ask her where she had gone! I know we would get ‘I can’t recall’ but she could at least give some response as to the places she would go mid shift.

yeah the swipe card at 1.15am means nothing to me, it’s not reasonable doubt.

When I was working in the NHS up to very recently, I found my ID badge would not let me in some areas and I really should have visited Security to have it refreshed but as they were areas I only visited occasionally and I was due to retire in the foreseeable future I would borrow the badge from a colleague whose badge worked in that area (it was usually only for a few minutes, for example I might have just been going there to get a form signed or to pick up a set of patient notes). So in these situations if analysed my colleague would look like she had visited there and not me. We never thought anything of it as we were conscientious, hard working staff legitimately visiting another area. What if LL had briefly lent her badge to someone who had forgotten theirs, you never know. It's been discussed before that if a doctor or nurse forgot their badge and they were travelling a long way they wouldn't go back home for it. It's possible there were times when she appeared to be entering NICU when in fact it wasn't her. I know this is probably unlikely but not impossible.

 

[Tofino]

I hope so - I don't think the Dr that attended that first time has been questioned has she? She'd know who called for help surely?

I was just looking at the wiki. Christopher Booth was the designated nurse and says he would have gone on his break on the hour but can’t recall who he would have handed over to

the doctor that responded could not recall who told her.

One of the biggest red flags here is that whichever nurse was meant to be looking after baby whilst Booth was on his break didn’t make any notes about the desat. I find that highly suspicious with the 1.15am door swipe.

 

[MmmB777]

I was just looking at the wiki. Christopher Booth was the designated nurse and says he would have gone on his break on the hour but can’t recall who he would have handed over to

View attachment 2176020

the doctor that responded could not recall who told her.

View attachment 2176022

One of the biggest red flags here is that whichever nurse was meant to be looking after baby whilst Booth was on his break didn’t make any notes about the desat. I find that highly suspicious with the 1.15am door swipe.

bleeping hell! Hadn’t thought about that! That’s very interesting isn’t it.

 

[Tofino]

And then you have all these other nurses who also can’t recall being involved. They have no reason to lie. it would be unfortunate for Lucy if they forgot they were involved and also forgot to write a note at the time.

 

[docmum]

I know he's doing his job defending her by way of a fair trial but if he believes she is guilty and gets her off (mainly by casting doubt by way of small details) then he cannot have much of a conscience. Perhaps after years of doing this type of work he's become desensitized.

see, I see this totally differently. His belief in her guilt/innocence is no different to us here, he is a human capable of logical thought and opinion. The small details he presents are fact, they may be cleverly given in context to make it seem more loaded to his argument but let’s face it the prosecution will have manipulated some facts to sound worse than they were in context (some of her texts for example - please don’t take this as me downplaying the seriousness of other actions). we have a justice system that prides itself on giving a fair trial, and it’s important for everyone involved - if I was a colleague or a parent, I’d want to know a bloody good argument had happened from both camps to make sure that a verdict was justified and right. I’d want to know that no one could ever try to say she had been any kind of victim here.

If she is guilty, the facts of the trial speak for themselves - the KC is merely ensuring they are debated and nothing around those facts is misleading or missed.

Which brings me on to the other mentioned topic of how it would feel for any NG charges. This has been the forefront of my mind all along tbh, I know I can’t even imagine what the parents are going through but what really is justice in this case? Justice for the case as a whole with her being locked up/key thrown away - absolutely. Justice for all involved to ensure there is an NHS review and culture change - yes. But nothing reverses the harm or brings those angels back. For me, an overall verdict and the points above are what I would want - but of course that’s my personal stance.

ffs. I wish I had done law instead

 

[DellaC]

At this point I'm thinking @Tofino and @MmmB777 are twinning.

Same posts for clarity, same points raised, same depth and detail, same passion.

Have you 2 synchronised your periods yet?

 

[Tofino]

bleeping hell! Hadn’t thought about that! That’s very interesting isn’t it.

yep! Booth wrote notes when he was back but didn’t mention who told him. I honestly think she saw she wasn’t mentioned so didn’t write any retrospective notes. If she was mentioned she would have had to.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

And then you have all these other nurses who also can’t recall being involved. They have no reason to lie. it would be unfortunate for Lucy if they forgot they were involved and also forgot to write a note at the time.


View attachment 2176042View attachment 2176043

Good catch, very interesting!!

 

[docmum]

When I was working in the NHS up to very recently, I found my ID badge would not let me in some areas and I really should have visited Security to have it refreshed but as they were areas I only visited occasionally and I was due to retire in the foreseeable future I would borrow the badge from a colleague whose badge worked in that area (it was usually only for a few minutes, for example I might have just been going there to get a form signed or to pick up a set of patient notes). So in these situations if analysed my colleague would look like she had visited there and not me. We never thought anything of it as we were conscientious, hard working staff legitimately visiting another area. What if LL had briefly lent her badge to someone who had forgotten theirs, you never know. It's been discussed before that if a doctor or nurse forgot their badge and they were travelling a long way they wouldn't go back home for it. It's possible there were times when she appeared to be entering NICU when in fact it wasn't her. I know this is probably unlikely but not impossible.

I’d say with similar experience to you that it’s actually quite likely. I wonder if the prosecution might just simply ask her if she has ever had to borrow an ID badge, or ever lent hers to a colleague for a few minutes. Point closed entirely if she answers yes, and let’s face it 99.9% of us will have done.