Dr NN was thrown under the bus today too with her saying baby N was bleeding due to failed intubation attempts which he did.
I guess the bus wasn't going to Cockington.
I guess the bus wasn't going to Cockington.
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I have changed my view from guilty vote to guilty for some. I honestly do not believe she will be convicted for every baby. Interesting that swipe data from two of the babies indicates she was not there at the time of the suspected crime.
The insulin poisoning remains the most objective evidence for me. Seems like they have skimmed over this recently.
In reference to taking photos of cards, I need to be honest and say that I do not see this as strong evidence. I always take photos of cards but do cover the patients names. Having only ever sent two cards to patients in my whole career but received many thank you cards.
Finally, a red flag for me is that there has not yet been any evidence brought forward regarding any clinical supervision discussions. Clinical supervision is paramount for good practice and improving patient care, as well as self-development. A safety net for every clinician to learn from their mistakes, be guided on improving care and to build their own confidence and skills. I could go back at least 5 years and pull up monthly supervision discussions regarding patients. I won’t remember all of the incidents but these logs would help remind me. Wonder if supervision will at all be mentioned
The insulin poisoning remains the most objective evidence for me. Seems like they have skimmed over this recently.
In reference to taking photos of cards, I need to be honest and say that I do not see this as strong evidence. I always take photos of cards but do cover the patients names. Having only ever sent two cards to patients in my whole career but received many thank you cards.
Finally, a red flag for me is that there has not yet been any evidence brought forward regarding any clinical supervision discussions. Clinical supervision is paramount for good practice and improving patient care, as well as self-development. A safety net for every clinician to learn from their mistakes, be guided on improving care and to build their own confidence and skills. I could go back at least 5 years and pull up monthly supervision discussions regarding patients. I won’t remember all of the incidents but these logs would help remind me. Wonder if supervision will at all be mentioned
Oh my. Joined the facebook discussion group. What a garbage fire. I felt like being in the guilty camp put me at risk of being hung drawn and quartered.
I can remember the names of the bereaved parents and babies that I have cared for over the past 13 years. I can remember exactly what happened during those shifts. Ask me who I worked with last week and you'll be met with a blank look. Traumatic shifts stay with you (when they shouldn't happen). I can imagine they stay with you moreso when you're actively killing them.
Yeah I’ve thought the same for a while now. She’s probably guilty of all of them, but I think realistically there’s a strong chance she’ll only go down for the insulin ones.I have changed my view from guilty vote to guilty for some. I honestly do not believe she will be convicted for every baby. Interesting that swipe data from two of the babies indicates she was not there at the time of the suspected crime.
The insulin poisoning remains the most objective evidence for me. Seems like they have skimmed over this recently.
In reference to taking photos of cards, I need to be honest and say that I do not see this as strong evidence. I always take photos of cards but do cover the patients names. Having only ever sent two cards to patients in my whole career but received many thank you cards.
Finally, a red flag for me is that there has not yet been any evidence brought forward regarding any clinical supervision discussions. Clinical supervision is paramount for good practice and improving patient care, as well as self-development. A safety net for every clinician to learn from their mistakes, be guided on improving care and to build their own confidence and skills. I could go back at least 5 years and pull up monthly supervision discussions regarding patients. I won’t remember all of the incidents but these logs would help remind me. Wonder if supervision will at all be mentioned
There was mention yesterday of a holiday with a friend and colleague to Ibiza in June 2016, i thought she went with her parents or had she been there twice ?
i Think some evidence is weak for some babies too but it depends what the judge directs in his summary If they can look at the whole picture and not as individual cases too.
i Think some evidence is weak for some babies too but it depends what the judge directs in his summary If they can look at the whole picture and not as individual cases too.
I'm sure the parents are being thoroughly supported and prepared but just imagine having your baby murdered and the person responsible getting off? I just can't.
Would convictions for others help ease that pain do we think? The knowledge that she'll never do it again? That she's recognised as a murderer?
The pressure on the prosecution must be huge.
Would convictions for others help ease that pain do we think? The knowledge that she'll never do it again? That she's recognised as a murderer?
The pressure on the prosecution must be huge.
I think if I had a baby involved and she got off the charge against my baby but was connvicted of others I would be very unhappy and feel justice had not been served for my baby.
I think there’s the odd charge she’ll escape but the vast majority will get a conviction. What did o&p die from 
extreme/sudden premature death at 4lbs 33+ weeks? why two sets of twins with the same problems? Less than 24hrs after each other with a horrendous bruise to the liver? Why a big air bubble by the catheter for baby D, a full term baby?
I do get confused by this idea there needs to be more, what exactly would you expect if somebody was killing prem babies with air and trying to with insulin? Do murder convictions rely on somebody seeing it happen
surely that would count out a considerable amount. There won’t be DNA or CCTV so does that mean people can just get away with those crimes if they’re clever enough? She wasn’t clever enough. She killed or nearly killed a baby every shift in June 2015. Look at the text reactions she got then! This was bizarre. No staffing problems then. That comes when she’s setting off lots of babies at once not picking one to kill. She started killing as soon as she had access to veins and had learnt about air embolism but doesn’t remember the risks of that when being quizzed by police 
. There is air in the babies only comparable to huge organ failure type infections or car crashes.
I have a special bottle ready for sentencing, wish I could invite you all to watch with me.. No gingers allowed policy though to keep the numbers manageable
extreme/sudden premature death at 4lbs 33+ weeks? why two sets of twins with the same problems? Less than 24hrs after each other with a horrendous bruise to the liver? Why a big air bubble by the catheter for baby D, a full term baby? I do get confused by this idea there needs to be more, what exactly would you expect if somebody was killing prem babies with air and trying to with insulin? Do murder convictions rely on somebody seeing it happen
surely that would count out a considerable amount. There won’t be DNA or CCTV so does that mean people can just get away with those crimes if they’re clever enough? She wasn’t clever enough. She killed or nearly killed a baby every shift in June 2015. Look at the text reactions she got then! This was bizarre. No staffing problems then. That comes when she’s setting off lots of babies at once not picking one to kill. She started killing as soon as she had access to veins and had learnt about air embolism but doesn’t remember the risks of that when being quizzed by police . There is air in the babies only comparable to huge organ failure type infections or car crashes. I have a special bottle ready for sentencing, wish I could invite you all to watch with me.. No gingers allowed policy though to keep the numbers manageable
I still think she’ll be found guilty of them all (assuming the jury are allowed to look at the cases as a whole).
It’s more the fact that all BM needs to do is provide reasonable doubt that she killed a particular baby, and the jury will struggle to find her guilty for it. It’s how the justice system works.I think there’s the odd charge she’ll escape but the vast majority will get a conviction. What did o&p die from
I do get confused by this idea there needs to be more, what exactly would you expect if somebody was killing prem babies with air and trying to with insulin? Do murder convictions rely on somebody seeing it happen
I have a special bottle ready for sentencing, wish I could invite you all to watch with me.. No gingers allowed policy though to keep the numbers manageable
There’s also the fact that he’s chosen to go down the route of trying to confuse the jury about timings, when she started her shift etc and I think it’s a very tricky tactic which could ultimately work (bc let’s face it, this case is absolutely huge, full of little details and really complicated to follow). As I say though, we’ll have to wait and see how things go over the next couple of weeks.
As always, you're right.I think there’s the odd charge she’ll escape but the vast majority will get a conviction. What did o&p die from
I do get confused by this idea there needs to be more, what exactly would you expect if somebody was killing prem babies with air and trying to with insulin? Do murder convictions rely on somebody seeing it happen
I have a special bottle ready for sentencing, wish I could invite you all to watch with me.. No gingers allowed policy though to keep the numbers manageable
It's a very tense time though isn't it? I am dreading hearing about the triplets
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I know it's his job so don't come for me people but how the duck could he live with himself of he got a baby murderer off?
Related but a bit off topic so will put under a spoiler:
I was watching the documentary about Libby and her parents are just amazing. When he was found guilty of her murder and grape (the latter was pretty certain but the former wasn't as clear cut as although there were bits of evidence some was circumstantial), her mum said after the verdict that shes glad he is off the streets as he is dangerous and a risk to others, but that it hasnt given closure and doesnt make her happy or feel much of anything as her daughter is still gone. Just brings it home that justice can never truly be served even if found guilty.
I really can’t wait for the prosecution to start their cross-examination. I think they’ll reel her in, make her think she’s being believed and then gradually show what a pile of lies she’s been delivering. It’ll need to be done carefully - they can’t risk making her look like a victim.
As for the aftermath. Forget the 3 part Netflix documentary and the inevitable 3 part ITV X drama starring Sheridan Smith (probably)…I want to see Lucy Letby - the Musical! A fecked up love story of Matalan, Prosecco, a saucy dishy doctor and just very occasionally killing babies. Sorry, I’ve a very dark sense of humour.
As for the aftermath. Forget the 3 part Netflix documentary and the inevitable 3 part ITV X drama starring Sheridan Smith (probably)…I want to see Lucy Letby - the Musical! A fecked up love story of Matalan, Prosecco, a saucy dishy doctor and just very occasionally killing babies. Sorry, I’ve a very dark sense of humour.
I am curious to know whether people who were feeling unsure / NG think Lucy made the right decision taking the stand or not.
For me it’s very telling that Ben Myers didn’t even ask her where she had gone! I know we would get ‘I can’t recall’ but she could at least give some response as to the places she would go mid shift.
yeah the swipe card at 1.15am means nothing to me, it’s not reasonable doubt.
I’m curious about the 1.15am swipe card. To me it doesn’t prove she wasn’t around, because we don’t know what time she left the unit. Or how long she was gone for. I can also believe someone trying to cover their crimes might do that mid shift.I have changed my view from guilty vote to guilty for some. I honestly do not believe she will be convicted for every baby. Interesting that swipe data from two of the babies indicates she was not there at the time of the suspected crime.
The insulin poisoning remains the most objective evidence for me. Seems like they have skimmed over this recently.
In reference to taking photos of cards, I need to be honest and say that I do not see this as strong evidence. I always take photos of cards but do cover the patients names. Having only ever sent two cards to patients in my whole career but received many thank you cards.
Finally, a red flag for me is that there has not yet been any evidence brought forward regarding any clinical supervision discussions. Clinical supervision is paramount for good practice and improving patient care, as well as self-development. A safety net for every clinician to learn from their mistakes, be guided on improving care and to build their own confidence and skills. I could go back at least 5 years and pull up monthly supervision discussions regarding patients. I won’t remember all of the incidents but these logs would help remind me. Wonder if supervision will at all be mentioned
For me it’s very telling that Ben Myers didn’t even ask her where she had gone! I know we would get ‘I can’t recall’ but she could at least give some response as to the places she would go mid shift.
yeah the swipe card at 1.15am means nothing to me, it’s not reasonable doubt.
I know. It’s so messed up, he’s got people off for murder / grape / n0ncing charges before. I personally don’t really know how he sleeps at night.
Oh I followed her disappearance very closely, I am building myself up for the documentary. Her Mum seemed great when I saw clips of her...ahhh bless her. How sad x I just cannot imagine.
I think she’ll probably get rinsed by the prosecution. I think she’s probably overestimated her own intelligence and thinks she’ll easily be able to skip over their tricky questions, or just give some vague answer like she did with police interviews and no one will think too much about it.
Same, it doesn't mean anything to me because since getting on the stand she has show truly how manipulative she is. Before her taking the stand and realising just how casually devious she is it may have made me pause for thought but now it just shows me she was trying to sow confusion and cover her tracks even at the time.
If she gets off just because she and Ben managed to just confuse the jurors rather than presenting any defence (cause there isn’t any, she's guilty) I will be livid. She has done nothing but lie and retell her fantasy of how great she is since she took the stand, easily dispovable lies. She's a compulsive liar and a fantasist. I am actually sickened that she has been let have this moment to revel in it all.
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