Lucy Letby case #25

[feistyoneanddone]

i haven’t posted on this thread for months as we just had a baby in November. But I am now fully caught up.

A few little points with my legal hat on.

At the plea hearing, the list of witnesses each side is proposing to call is given. If one side objects to a certain witness being called, this is then discussed between the barristers/solicitors. If no agreement can be reached as to whether that witness can be called then the Judge will make the decision. So everyone will have known for a while if LL is going to take the stand or not. She could change her mind, but the CPS will have gone ahead and prepared questions a long time ago if it was indicated months ago that she would be taking the stand.

Every witness must produce a written statement, and the plea hearing is often when the prosecution hands theirs over. Other evidence found during the course of the police investigation must also be disclosed to the defence. The defendant must produce a statement too which sets out their case and they have 28 days after receiving disclosure from prosecution to do so. So LL will have known what each witness will say and the prosecution will know what LL’s case is.

The police/CPS have to make further disclosure after receiving the defence statement.

The two doctors mentioned as making notes by the Tattlers who have attended court - no-one is allowed into the court room to watch proceedings until they have finished giving evidence, for very obvious reasons. Can’t have people changing their evidence to suit what they are hearing. They can’t even talk to anyone involved in the case whilst still under oath, that includes other witnesses, the CPS etc etc. So those two doctors must be finished giving evidence.

The police interview discussion - the two sides will try to agree which parts of it should be shown as some of it could now be considered irrelevant. The transcripts will need redacting/crossing out and the video recording will need parts editing out. Again, the Judge decides if the two parties don’t agree, but usually they do. This can take a very long time and they may have to do more work/arguments on this.

 

[Tofino]

There's something so interesting about seeing her house as it was left. Does anyone recognise the books on her bedside table?

just looked the red one up - Ruth Jones Never Greener. Make of it what you will

 

[riddleme89]

View attachment 2075070

She’s a sly, murderous cunt. Sorry not sorry. She didn’t even finish the notes of baby q’s feed, rushes off and puts it on someone else. She’s gross.

It’s obvious she’s guilty . But I’m glad it stops at baby Q she was clearly on one hell of a killing spree at this point . To have the Two triplets die and then straight on to baby q …. She was absolutely on a spree … what a evil bitch

 

[Windowtothewall]

"The three handwritten notes are shown to the court.

One is a blue post-it note, with handwriting featuring Letby's thoughts. The other two feature the name of a doctor several times, one saying "[name of doctor] I loved you" and "[name of doctor] my best friend."

Other messages on the notes, which have been densely-packed and messages among swirls of writing, read:

"I can't do this any more"

"Help me"

"We tried our best and it wasn't enough"

"I want someone to help me but they can't"

One message, in thicker handwriting overlaid on the yellow note, has the message "HELP"."

 

[coffeeandwine]

'I killed those babies because I'm not good enough' is one thing. 'I killed them ON PURPOSE' is quite another imo. I can't ever imagine saying that unless I had done something purposefully.

 

[elloelloello]

What the actual ??!!

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

I’m going to get my note analysis out again, I’m not lying when I say I spent hours staring at this note, I don’t think it is all that random tbh. Anyway this is how I have interpreted it for any newbies who haven’t seen my post before….

• ‘There are no words. I can’t breath, I can’t focus. Overwhelming fear/panic.I haven’t done anything wrong. Police investigation forget slander, discrimination, victimisation, all getting too much. everything taking over my life (?), I feel very alone + scared, what does the future hold! How can I get through it. How will things ever be like they used to.’

I think the above section was all wrote together at the same time.



Then I think these ones were wrote together and follow on from the above like is she replying to her self.

• ‘They can’t. I don’t deserve to live I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough too care for them + I am a horrible evil person. World is better off without me. I don’t deserve Mum + Dad Tom + Matt. I am evil I did this. I did this.’

Then I think these were wrote together-



I am an awful person. I pay everyday for that. Kill my self right now.

I’ll never have children or marry, I’ll never know what it’s like to have a family.

Hate my self so much for what this has…..



Then I think these were wrote the same time.



No hope

Desperate

Panic

Fear

Lost

Why me

Killing me

I did this

Hate

 

[docmum]

So keeping in mind that investigations were probably initially based around the last 3-4 babies, I wonder how incriminating this was for her. Did this point them to look more specifically over these 13 babies in addition to the last ones, and that’s why they’re now extending the investigation further to presumably cover all babies she’s looked after. Just a thought.

 

[MmmB777]

Tell me this is a joke please

Sorry yes it is!
I will try and stop but fucking hell colourful cartoon dog diary mate.

 

[MmmB777]

It’s not clear to me if baby Q was due a feed at 9am, the wiki says that he was having babiven TPN through a UVC. The vomit was of clear fluid and air was aspirated, by LL, but there was no milk present.
If just muted the alarm would only be silenced for 1 minute. I tend to think she’d sabotaged baby Q with ng clear fluid and air thinking it will either splint his diaphragm or cause vomiting (or both) at some point.

Confusing! It says she was supposed to give 0.5ml of milk and that she should have aspirated his tummy before hand, she doesn’t record anything in the fluids chart, leaves and then minutes later he’s full of air and fluid.

---
Wow Pathologist discovered Baby D had air at the tip of the catheter - he says “indicating an intentional injection of air into her bloodstream”.
Sorry but that’s huge evidence!

 

[DellaC]

Really keen for the police interviews next week, interested in whether she will just lie and deny tattle psychologists assemble

As a Chief Inspector AND a Registered Psychologist I shall be sure to keep you all informed of my thoughts

 

[Windowtothewall]

Her constantly second guessing whether she killed them before she’d even been arrested is weird. Surely you know if you’d done such a thing - I can’t imagine ever thinking I’d killed patients and not realised! Also she hadn’t been charged with murder yet right? Why did the thought they’d been killed cross her mind rather than being careless or negligent?

 

[Treesy19]

All normal behaviour for a nurse

Serial killer

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Can tell she didn't get much action with a metal framed bed. We have a thick solid bed so I can be dashed around it with minimal noise.

 

[MmmB777]

And Tiny Boy his tallywacker?

Bloody hell Tiny Boy and Bergerac even Tigger and Smudge would be an improvement on that
It’s all a bit childish. Cuddly toys, fairy lights, doodles, cartoon diaries. I mean even the chomp is weird to me tbh but I 100% know that’s probably because I hate everything about her oh god there’s the pic of her with the freddo too isn’t there. Have a fucking Lindor and grow up you beige twat.

 

[Laura8868]

I'm sure she is guilty from day one
Too much coincidence, is just unrealistic
The worst part if I'm sure she killed more babies than she is accused for. Police only focused on this one they have solid proofs. I hope the families will get the justice they deserved

 

[Windowtothewall]

WTAF. He risked his career to share information with her knowing the concerns and the seriousness of the suspicions?? Letting her know an investigation into the unit is forthcoming is one thing but sharing confidential emails is another. No wonder he doesn't want his name made public - he was helping a possible baby murderer. He definitely knew all this time what was going on, that's why he offered her a statement. Thing is they'd only have found out about it after the police investigation by which point he'd probably left the unit.

 

[Laura8868]

Didn't the unit get downgraded around the time when she got moved onto clerical duties? Not defending her but in all fairness that was bound to happen.

Still too many deaths for such a small unit when she work there
I had a long placement in Level 3 NICU which accepts the most premature babies (even 23/24, weekers) and almost 4 moths there- only 2 babies passed away and it was expected because one was too poorly with brain hemorrhage the other with sepsis. There was not a single case when baby who was on the road to recovery just passed away out of blue. Neonatal doctors are very experienced and they know their job- the deaths in LL unit was so random, unexplained, nothing like they saw before.
---
Did anybody know if LL psychiatric assessment was published? I'm sure she had one?
I'm wondering how her psychological/psychiatric profile look like. Clearly must be something wrong with her?
---

I hadn’t actually thought along those lines, but you’re absolutely right. I’m sure she’s going to be studied/looked at by many psychologists in the years to come so I hope we do hear more about her/her parents/childhood etc

I personally feel she’s a complete psychopath rather than sociopath. But guess none of us will know for a while yet.

I do understand what people are saying about feeling sorry for her parents, no one wants to think of their only daughter as a cold blooded (and UK’s worst female serial) killer, and that must be incredibly hard to come to terms with/not believe your child could be capable of it, but atm til I hear more about her background and upbringing, I’ll just reserve judgement on them for now. But as I say it’s the 17 families that really I feel the sympathy for (not that you can’t have sympathy for both, incase that it seems I’m hating on her parents sympathisers, I’m not I just don’t personally feel anything for them atm)

And yea agree that I hope her parents aren’t vilified if they do turn out to be wonderful people, bit like Noname I hope he isn’t vilified either. There’s so many lives destroyed from this case when you think about it

I feel bad also for the staff who work with her. So traumatising to know you worked with sick killer.

 

[Cheddar Chalpupa]

Exactly it’s like when she Facebook searches them in pairs/sets when at that point they shouldn’t be linked unless she’s guilty

I've said this before, I know people don't think the Facebook searches are all that important but if I was on the jury this would be the smoking gun for me. She was searching them at the same time, but they had nothing in common, there is only one reason she would be thinking about them at the same time.

 

[Tofino]

“It’s a bit of a worry if it’s going that far” WHY??? What an odd thing to say about an inquest if you are innocent.